Photog's Lifted Suspension 2009 Roadtrek 190V

[campskunk]

peteco:

it was easy - i bought the wrong shock. the 2480 shocks are for the 2002 and earlier front ends, and have all kinds of extra length on the end on the shaft. i just got a bunch of flat washers and placed them between the end washer and the bottom rubber. i suspect bilstein makes the same damn shock tube and piston for a bunch of applications, and just varies the end location points to fit different vehicles.

campskunk

2003 Chevy 190 Popular - retired and fulltiming
we are here: http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=13303
our photos are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/81571751@N00/sets/

 

[MrRob]

i noticed when checking shock and suspension travel that the suspension would travel further down than the shock would allow. i solved the problem by shimming the top shock mount down about an inch, but always wondered why this was.

campskunk

How were you able to shim the top mount down an inch? I need to shim mine down but it looks like I would only get 1/2" if I took the entire top bushing out and used washers on the shock shaft to push the shaft down.

Pete
2006 RT210P

I guess ...

you have Part Number: 24-187435 (Old Part Number: F4-BE5-G611-H0) for the 2003 and later van.

from http://cart.bilsteinus.com/product/24-187435/57514/RWD

while campskunk has Part Number: 24-187435 (Old Part Number: F4-BE5-G611-H0) for the 1996-2002 van

from http://cart.bilsteinus.com/product/24-024808/6453/RWD#

perhaps the 1996-2002 van's shock is better for our purpose ... although like campskunk (who is unusually rear heavy for a 190) you may well put less load on your front axel because of the rearward bias of the weight in a 210.

 

[campskunk]

if i had to do it over again i'd get the right shock. i think the 2003 and later shock is designed to serve as a stop and limit downward suspension travel. we went around and around on this on the yahoo board and i tend to agree with the folks who say the shock is the suspension travel stop. rob, you will know when you jack yours up, loosen the top shock attachment, and see if it drops any more. there's no "hard stop" for the A arms to bottom out against - the ridge where the top A arm finally touches is obviously not designed to be a stop.

campskunk

2003 Chevy 190 Popular - retired and fulltiming
we are here: http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=13303
our photos are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/81571751@N00/sets/

 

[peteco]

if i had to do it over again i'd get the right shock. i think the 2003 and later shock is designed to serve as a stop and limit downward suspension travel. we went around and around on this on the yahoo board and i tend to agree with the folks who say the shock is the suspension travel stop.

My view on this is I think there should be a little more down travel on the shock. I think I can get 1/2" on the shock by adding washers to the shock rod below the upper-bottom bushing, and possibly trim the upper-top bushing. I think the linkage will yield more than 1/2" travel of the wheel. And I think it will still be far away from the linkage hitting the frame, which you definitely don't want.

It may be January until I get to this. I plan to retire in Dec and then will have lots of time to do this and many other mods to the Roadtrek.

Pete
2006 RT210P

 

[MrRob]

if i had to do it over again i'd get the right shock. i think the 2003 and later shock is designed to serve as a stop and limit downward suspension travel. we went around and around on this on the yahoo board and i tend to agree with the folks who say the shock is the suspension travel stop. rob, you will know when you jack yours up, loosen the top shock attachment, and see if it drops any more. there's no "hard stop" for the A arms to bottom out against - the ridge where the top A arm finally touches is obviously not designed to be a stop.

campskunk

thanks, having slept on it I think I will order the later shocks as they are the "correct spec" for the van. They are obviously different to the early shocks for good reason ... I can always have them adapted if need be.

My view on this is I think there should be a little more down travel on the shock. I think I can get 1/2" on the shock by adding washers to the shock rod below the upper-bottom bushing, and possibly trim the upper-top bushing. I think the linkage will yield more than 1/2" travel of the wheel. And I think it will still be far away from the linkage hitting the frame, which you definitely don't want.

It may be January until I get to this. I plan to retire in Dec and then will have lots of time to do this and many other mods to the Roadtrek.

Pete
2006 RT210P

Pete, Have you weighted your front and rear axel when you are in running order? ... I have a feeling you may be lighter on the front (and heavier at the rear) than the 190 owners, that are relatively front heavy, who are happy with the TufTruck TTC-1617 & Bilstein 24-187435 combo ...

How often do you top out the shocks? or is it more a "feeling" that you would like more down travel?

 

[campskunk]

i have never noticed the shocks topping out while driving - let's face it, we're not likely to (voluntarily) unload the front end to the point that we hit full extension. i gave up ski jumping in my RT years ago. bottoming out is much more likely, especially with the stock front springs. my bump stops were beat to hell when i swapped springs from the suspension hitting the lower limit of travel, and when driving it i came to dread the feeling if i hit a hole at speed or whatever and the front end dove down hard on the stop. i would wager the only time my front suspension is ever fully extended is when i jack it up off the ground.

campskunk

2003 Chevy 190 Popular - retired and fulltiming
we are here: http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=13303
our photos are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/81571751@N00/sets/

 

[booster]

I have to agree with Campskunk, we have never noticed the shocks going to full extension, and even if we had noticed it, it wouldn't bother me. Compression of the shock is much more important IMO. Bottoming, pitching, etc can really mess up handling. In the extension mode, hearing the shock hit the end of travel can be irritating, but it may be a lot better than letting the travel go further. The Express vans have unequal length a arms, so the contact point of the tires moves in and out, based on the compression of the suspension at any given time. If you increase the downtravel of the suspension, you also increase the likelyhood of bump steer on unloaded bumps or dips. Although our miles are limited at this point, I can say that we don't see any bump steer from extension bumps (holes), but can't for sure say it would get worse with more extension. We have the Tufftruk springs and Bilsteins, and also travel light and heavy. The big question for me is, what is the issue with the extension? The noise of hitting the end of the shock travel? Handling issues? The thing to remember is that keeping a wheel from dropping deeper into a big hole is a good thing IMO, not a bad thing.

 

[peteco]

My thinking is that the ideal setup would be for the shocks to never bottom or top out while driving. Of course they are going to top out when you lift the vehicle, but that is a slow extension to the stops, not a jarring extension that occurs when you hit a hole in the road.

As mentioned however, you do want the shock to top out before the suspension hits its stops.

My concern with shock topping out is it may be stressing the stops inside the shock so they may fail some day.

Pete
2006 RT210P

 

[MrRob]

thanks guys rayer: , I have taken the plunge and started to order the bits ... :?

 

[MrRob]

My thinking is that the ideal setup would be for the shocks to never bottom or top out while driving. Of course they are going to top out when you lift the vehicle, but that is a slow extension to the stops, not a jarring extension that occurs when you hit a hole in the road.

As mentioned however, you do want the shock to top out before the suspension hits its stops.

My concern with shock topping out is it may be stressing the stops inside the shock so they may fail some day.

Pete
2006 RT210P

I'd hope the shocks are designed to take that load and I would prefer $100 shocks to fail rather than anything else as they are a service item and by far the cheapest bit of the suspension to replace :wink:

 

[booster]

My thinking is that the ideal setup would be for the shocks to never bottom or top out while driving. Of course they are going to top out when you lift the vehicle, but that is a slow extension to the stops, not a jarring extension that occurs when you hit a hole in the road.

As mentioned however, you do want the shock to top out before the suspension hits its stops.

My concern with shock topping out is it may be stressing the stops inside the shock so they may fail some day.

Pete
2006 RT210P

I'd hope the shocks are designed to take that load and I would prefer $100 shocks to fail rather than anything else as they are a service item and by far the cheapest bit of the suspension to replace :wink:

I agree about the shock failure being preferable, and it probably isn't that big an impact anyway. The movement is damped by the shock itself, and the force is the weight of the wheel and tire, plus the rapidly dropping spring load. The big front swaybar also reduces the force, unless you drop both front wheels in a huge hole. Think of what happens if you let the wheel drop further. You drive over a big hole in the road that is big enough to drop the wheel in to it until it stops on the shock. That wheel is still in the hole when it hits the opposite wall of the hole. That is where your big impact is, as it has 9K# of van behind it. If you drop in further, you hit harder coming back out. The contact angle of the force goes up very quickly with more depth. I will gladly take a little noise of the shock hitting the end of travel, if it saves the tire, wheel and front suspension from abuse.

 

[MrRob]

If the shocks don't top out in normal carful driving over undulating roads, sharp camber changes, rutted surfaces, speed bumps etc I will be happy. Smashing into unexpected potholes can't be any worse then my current set up, which is frankly dangerous on all but the smoothest flattest roads ... & we don't have many of them here in the UK.

All the parts are now ordered

 

[campskunk]

i think you'll be very happy with the difference, especially if you do it all at once. you'll get this monster truck feeling from the height and stiffness, and you have to resist the urge to start looking for VW campers to crush ;-)

 

[MrRob]

haha ... yep

... but just being able to go near curb stones and perhaps drop off them if I mount them will be all the monster tucking satisfaction i need

 

[paddyfitz]

i would like to thank you guys for leading the way i bought a 2005 roadtrek 190 popular chevy my my first roadtrek 2002 190 popular dodge made a mistake and sold it travel to mexico every year and the chevy would have lost its bottom on the roads i took your advice and put tufftruk ttc1617springs on front and 2 in.blocks on rear left original shocks on me and my dog drove 1400k over the mountains and back on a different road as they wanted me to put 1000k on then to take it in to get the u bolts torqued the shocks worked well no bouncing handeling very good sum very twisting roads speeds up to 110 k thanks again paddyfitz

 

[MrRob]

All the bits apart from 3 of the wheels are here now.
2 of the wheels are on their way and the other has to wait a month in LA as shipping cost exceed the shipping agent's monthly spend limits
We're out in the van most of November but I hope to get the suspension sorted by mid December.

 

[Photog-ClassB]

All the bits apart from 3 of the wheels are here now.
2 of the wheels are on their way and the other has to wait a month in LA as shipping cost exceed the shipping agent's monthly spend limits
We're out in the van most of November but I hope to get the suspension sorted by mid December.

:clap:
What parts did you order?

 

[MrRob]

:clap:
What parts did you order?

HI Guys, Facinating thread! :clap:
I think the time has come to maximise my RT's on road handling and improve ground clearance issues. My van is on the OE suspension and shocks which having only covered 20K miles are 9 years old so I have decided to replace as much of the OE stuff as I can and go the Airbags, Tuftruck Springs and Bilstein route for the suspension and correct offset Wheels with 265/75R16 123 Tyres. Could you confirm I have my shopping list right as I am in the UK so need to ship the bits over from the US?

Airbags
Airlift Loadlifter 5000 - 57205
http://shop.airliftcompany.com/product/ ... VELING_KIT

Front Coil
Tuftruck TTC-1617 2005 and newer- Van G 30/35/45 Duramax Diesel
http://tuftruck.com/products/chevroletgm/

Shocks Rear
BILSTEIN 46mm Monotube Shock Absorber Part Number: 24-025706 Old Part Number: F4-BE5-2570-H0
http://cart.bilsteinus.com/product/24-025706/6459/RWD

Shocks Front
BILSTEIN 46mm Monotube Shock Absorber Part Number: 24-187435 Old Part Number: F4-BE5-G611-H0
http://cart.bilsteinus.com/product/24-187435/6459/RWD

Wheels
04-09 GMC Sierra-2500, 3500, Yukon, Suburban-2500, Chevy Silverado-2500, 3500 Steel COW-5198 #3076
Size:
16x7, 6-Spokes, 8-lug
Silver Finish Steel Wheel
http://www.capitalwheels.com/store/cust ... at=&page=1

Tires
265/275r16
Michelin 86851 LT265/75R16/E 123 R
http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selecto ... re-details

Thanks in anticipation

... and the correct hubcaps and lugs for the steel wheels

But with the new EU Tire regs (probably preventing legal import) and $200 each transport costs (plus 30% Duty/VAT on Tire and shipping costs) I will probably have to go with the best rated European tire I can find the Nokian Rotiiva AT 265/75 R16 123/120S http://www.nokiantyres.com/tyre?id=24252603&group=2.02&name=Nokian+Rotiiva+AT.

 

[Photog-ClassB]

But with the new EU Tire regs (probably preventing legal import) and $200 each transport costs (plus 30% Duty/VAT on Tire and shipping costs) I will probably have to go with the best rated European tire I can find the Nokian Rotiiva AT 265/75 R16 123/120S http://www.nokiantyres.com/tyre?id=24252603&group=2.02&name=Nokian+Rotiiva+AT.

The LT version of that tire will definitely carry the load. Nice looking tire.

 

[trekerinsc]

Brian,
My mechanic is having a difficult time getting the rubber insulator on the new TuffTruck 1617 springs. In your description of the spring installation you said " The rubber parts don't go on easily, since the spring wire diameter is larger." On your 190, is the rubber insulator on the bottom of the spring? And how did you finally get it on. Any hints or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Robert