2011 Roadtrek 210 Front Coil Springs

[ArtieMaster]

After reading Tx-trek’s detailed and informative post on suspension upgrades I embarked on a similar path to improve my 210 that just passed 99,000 miles. My front fender measurements were 33 5/8” left and 34 5/8” right.

I ordered the ACDelco 45H0340 springs in early August but the delivery date kept being pushed out with the last notice estimating ship date of 9/28 so I decided to order the Moog 81004 springs.

At the same time I decided to renew all the components of the front suspension since it made sense to do everything now and hopefully finish up with a like suspension good for another 100k miles. The suspension shop called and said that after installing the Moogs the Roadtrek now sat at 39” and was undriveable as they believed any bump would damage the upper control arm.

They suggested I look at Super Springs, but at $500 plus I am hesitant to go down that path. I’m already $3,800 into this project so looking for a more economical approach. Looking for suggestions alternatives that worked for you.

[booster]

Originally Posted by ArtieMaster

After reading Tx-trek’s detailed and informative post on suspension upgrades I embarked on a similar path to improve my 210 that just passed 99,000 miles. My front fender measurements were 33 5/8” left and 34 5/8” right.

I ordered the ACDelco 45H0340 springs in early August but the delivery date kept being pushed out with the last notice estimating ship date of 9/28 so I decided to order the Moog 81004 springs.

At the same time I decided to renew all the components of the front suspension since it made sense to do everything now and hopefully finish up with a like suspension good for another 100k miles. The suspension shop called and said that after installing the Moogs the Roadtrek now sat at 39” and was undriveable as they believed any bump would damage the upper control arm.

They suggested I look at Super Springs, but at $500 plus I am hesitant to go down that path. I’m already $3,800 into this project so looking for a more economical approach. Looking for suggestions alternatives that worked for you.

The Moog springs have been giving overly high lift for some time how, as they seem to have changed from what they were before.

39" at the wheelwell with stock tires and wheels is not a good thing, and kudos for the shop for catching the possibility of damaging the upper control arm as it very likely the case.

At this point there is no question the springs will have to come out and you might have a couple of options. If the Delco spring you list is one that has worked for others, that is a possibility to put in but you would have to wait for it or try to find an equivalent which can be a random success thing lately. Another option would be to add a spacer to the stock springs. A one inch spacer would give you about 36" wheelwell height, I think. Last option would be to cut the Moog springs shorter. Taking an inch off them would drop you to about 37" wheelwell height, I think. The Moog giving that much height would indicate a very high springrate and shortening the spring will make a bit higher also, so ride might be rough, but unknown for certain. Of course, the fact that the Delco is that far out may indicate a supplier change or it going obsolete, so it may never be available again. GM/Delco has been obsoleting things sooner all the time compared to the past. When their parts go obsolete, they often by aftermarket springs with their part number and label on them, so you wind up with another set of Moogs.

If it were me, and I had time to wait, I would try to find better springs that have been proven to be OK by others, but if you need to get it done, I would cut the springs 1" and see what you get. It might be a rough ride but it shouldn't bust up parts. If the shop, or you, cut the springs it is best to cut them at about 3/4" shorter though one coil and then grind the entire end the last 1/4" to get one end mostly perpendicular to the spring. The end would go up in the van as the top pocket is flat and not with a taper to take a non flush end coil. If they don't have the capability to cut it that way, just cutting the coil at 1" shorter, perpendicular to the spring also works, but isn't quite as good.


Be aware there is a pretty high probability that all of the side to side unlevel in the front will not be gone from the front springs being replaced. It is very, very common for that difference to be caused because they tend to have quite a bit more weight on the left rear which drops that side and raises the right front. Airbags are the quickest fix to for that but it can also be done with spring modifications and/spacers. You will probably want the rear higher with the front up higher so bags seem like a good choice.



Good luck with it all, having the unit go too high sucks. I have been there and been out the cost of a set of springs.

[mkguitar]

whether the Super Springs would be good or not I don't know.


FALL22 is a 20% off code if you decide to try that route

[ArtieMaster]

Thanks for the reply, Booster. I think I will see if the shop can cut down the Moog and that will at least give me time to try to locate different springs if the ride is too rough. The supplier that I ordered the Delco spring from now lists the spring as unavailable.

[TX-Trek]

I remember also the somewhat hit or miss height with the Moog springs. I think also that the Super Springs could possibly be the same Moog spring. Good on the shop for flagging the control arm issue.

I agree with cutting down the springs you have, it's not that big of a deal. As mentioned the lower end fits into the control arm pocket but the upper end uses a formed rubber pad, can be cut as needed.

On my thread we had discussed a straight cut vs putting a taper cut to somewhat flatten the top of the spring. In my case I did the straight cut but I think the taper cut would be fine too, especially if the oem top rubber cup is not in good shape.

My springs have settled about .5 to .75 inch so if you're cutting you may want to assume some spring settlement will probably happen and calculate your cut accordingly. Just an opinion but with the 210 you may find the ride to be fine with the cut springs, I'd suggest trying them with the other changes before ordering new ones. You may find that the 210 does ok. There's a lot of overhang and weight in the back that likes to porpoise back onto the front at dips and bumps. Another factor on ride quality is tire pressures. I run 65/80 as an optimum pressure but of course those pressures and 10 ply tires will not be a car ride.

I would add that the inclusion of rear airbags has been a significant factor in the suspension upgrades on our van. Most recently I added an onboard controller/compressor that's a super convenient function.

We're about to end a 4500 mile trip thru many states, mountains, good and bad roads and I have zero complaints about the ride. Only change will be going to Bilsteins as the fairly new oem shocks wear out.

[booster]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you can't get the OEM top rubber isolator any more, only aftermarket. The difference is that the OEM one was rubber over a sheet metal insert so much stronger against splitting and letting the spring tear through it. I had bought the the aftermarket and intended to use them until I say the difference and reused the OEM even though they were a bit beat up.


The settling the Tex-Trek saw as likely the upper rubber isolator getting compressed over the early period of time after assembly. The non flat end of the spring, which is worse after you cut it unless you grind the end flat, will bend and distort even the factory isolator, I think, as it concentrates the load on a very small area.


I totally agree with Tex-Trek that getting the rear up and softer with the bags will make the front changes work better.

[ArtieMaster]

Thanks to both of you for the added info. I have installed the air ride bags so hopefully will be set. How do you calculate how much to cut off to get to 37”?

[booster]

Originally Posted by ArtieMaster

Thanks to both of you for the added info. I have installed the air ride bags so hopefully will be set. How do you calculate how much to cut off to get to 37”?

It is really tough to say exactly as the results people see don't really line up well with the calculations. I measured the ratio of the lower arm pivots to the spring centerline and to the tire center line and got 2.33 for a ratio but when I put in a shim on the spring I did not get 2.33 but did get a bit under 2.0 ratio.


Most of use have been using 2.0 ratio, I think, at least I do. It would be my best guess of what you will get.2.0 ratio would give 2" change in height for every 1" of spring length.



Yours will even a bit harder to predict because the spring end shape will change from semi-closed to open so the spring may compress more than a semi-closed one of the same length would. The flatter you get the end, the better the prediction would be, I think. Best is to cut it a bit long and use a 6" vertical belt sander with a very coarse belt or find someone that has one like a metal fabrication/welding shop.

[TX-Trek]

Booster, I also bought the replacement style top isolators but returned them as in my view they were little better than a table coaster. On our van the oem isolators were dusty but in excellent shape. I re-used them, a good robust design.

I do think that the slight settling was the spring and not the isolator. The oem isolators I think after 12 years have compressed as much as they're going to compress. Also, they have a formed pocket for the spring end. Cutting the new spring gave an identical end as the old spring, the isolator fit over it exactly as the old spring did.

In my Tubby Roadtrek thread somewhere I put a comparison pic of the new cut end spring and the original spring - they are the same. Made it very easy to use the good condition oem isolator, and of course I ensured the bottom end of the spring fit into the lower control arm pocket. The top pocket is flat which lets the isolator rotate to match the top end of the spring wherever it ends up.

[ArtieMaster]

Time for an update.

I instructed the shop to take 1" off the spring and please try to flatten the end to ensure the best fit. The shop claims that is what they did but they did not have to flatten the end and it fit perfectly in their opinion. The distance from the ground to the top of the wheel well went from 39" to 33 5/8" so I was essentially back to where I started before changing the spring. I drove the with this spring for about a year and each time I hit a large bump it sounded like the front end was falling out, so obviously not acceptable.

I started looking for a new spring and called Super Springs but they advised that they did not make a spring that would work in my Roadtrek. They suggested that I call General Spring who carried the Dayton heavy duty spring 350-1216HD. There are multiple dealers for the Dayton spring but General Spring had the best price.

Before ordering the new springs I had the Roadtrek weighed with full water tanks and full fuel. The front axle came in at 3920 lbs and the rear axle 5,280 lbs for a total of 9200 lbs.

I ordered the springs and had them installed about 60 days ago and the front is now 36". It measured 36 1/2" immediately after installation but has settled to 36". I have only put about 100 miles on since getting the vehicle back but so far it performs like I expected. We are going to Alaska this summer so that will be the true test.

The Moog spring originally measured 18 1/8" before the shop cut it down and the height of the returned Moog was 15 1/2" so hard to believe the spring would compress that much in a year. This was a shop that specializes in front ends and RVs so I don't know what I could have done different but I expected a different resuklt with the Moog spring.

All in all, it turned out to be an expensive lesson on coil spring replacement. I haven't gone back to calculate the exact number but I know it was slightly over $2,000 total.