Recirculating shower warm up time

[jrobe-ClassB]

Least cost - a packet of baby-wipes.

You can buy large, ultra-thick, soapy and anti-bacterial disposable cleaning wipes on Amazon for 30 cents each. Every hospital in the country uses these with great success for sanitary cleaning of hospital patients that are unable to take a regular shower. They also work great and take up no precious space in a Class B if someone didn't want to flip the switch on a water heater for a short shower.

I suspect most people would consider a "recirculating shower" to be a solution without a problem.

 

[GeorgeRad]

...........................but you've still have a price to pay for the heating.

Least cost - a packet of baby-wipes.

Cheers - Jim

OP could use cold fusion to heat water, folks in Colorado have proven this simple technology moons ago. Just a little amount of hydrogen, some palladium, DC juice and done.

A sister topic, what happen with LPG powered fuel cells, they supposed to take over B-class moons ago as well. They would be great to power recycling showers.

 

[Snowy-ClassB]

In the spirit of what this thread has become, let me propose using magic. With just the right incantation over the grey tank - presto chango - recycled water.

 

[phantomjock]

Never one to pass up an interesting rabbit hole, I chased the "RECIRCULATING SHOWER" for about an hour.

My results are depicted below.
First my Observations
1. For now, Propane heating would be the easiest and most efficient setup. Here is an affordable Outdoor model ($200). It fires the propane off of 12v cigarete lighter, but other wired models are available. Relatively low power requirement.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Yrxq+-jEL._AC_.jpg

2. Soap can be readily "scrubbed" and grey water systems are wide use for gardening. A DIY Filter can be made relatively easily:

DIY filter for grey water recycling:

If you'd rather buy one - even though looks simple they are asking a lot:
Compact Grey Water Filter:
Matala 10 Grey Water Filter - compact and efficient Pikkuvihreä but there are some good ideas there you could use/

3.UV purification is available in 12V but not cheap. NOTE they show a COLD WATER INPUT.

If that is a requirement - there is no recycing until the water cools. A means of storage and adequate supply for the shower on a "one-time" pass. A 5-6 gallon "Jerry Jug" might be sufficient.

4. Storage and assembly - my thoughts still lean towards a Bumper Storage Box, with all the gear inside. The OP mentioned Infrequent or Occasional Use. The recycling remains an issue if the UV sanitizer needs cold water.

Here now in pictures:

I do have experience using a Propane fired "Instant Water Heater" similar the the unit shown. Was not used in a recirculating ststem, but the sketchs I've laid out show what might meet your desired objective.
Costs
12v UV Purifier $800 18Watts
Propane Heater $200 n/a
Dedicated Water Pump $50 36Watts (could elminate cost if bought with the heater.)
Bumper Storage $200

Approaching $1200 - Thats a lot of Baby Wipes. But, a novel idea.

Thanks for offering the challenge.


Cheers - Jim

BTW - Next we'd go for a Hydrogen Electrolyzer and elminate the propane!

 

[@Michael]

Never one to pass up an interesting rabbit hole

Your rabbit hole solution is roughly what that that Y-tuber did:

This guy built a shower recycling system in his class B:

https://youtu.be/oXmx-cusu5g
https://youtu.be/3bkXL9Fp3JY

For some, this might be worth the cost and complexity. For me - no. I never stayed in one spot long enough to need recycled water, nor would I give up the space.

 

[booster]

2. Soap can be readily "scrubbed" and grey water systems are wide use for gardening. A DIY Filter can be made relatively easily:

DIY filter for grey water recycling:

I run into, "you can filter out soap from grey water" but rarely with any real documentation and/or test results. The failed RV one from Vanlife was the only one I saw that actually tested and found out just how hard it is to remove soap in particular, and another who was using a homebuilt said it had started to smell and also the filters must have plugged all the time as they were going to go coarser. At home, since we are on a septic system, it is important to keep fine, non degradable things, out of the septic. Laundry water with fabric particles and lint is a big culprit as is dry laundry soap that contains very fine non soluble fillers (we only use liquid for that reason). We have a fairly large 10 micron filter on the washer discharge for filter out whatever comes out. It has to be cleaned every 3-5 loads, IIRC, or it goes into pressure bypass. Soaps go right through it without any change to them so it does nothing to remove soap.


It looks, based on their literature, that "filters in a tote" looking thing is made to go outside, and it states it is a biological digester. That is probably why it would be outside as it probably would smell bad, and much like a grey tank does. I do wonder about the 400 liters per day claim as digesters need time to break down the stuff in the water. That container looks to only be 8-10 gallons maybe.


Using laundry water was pretty common around here for a while, but now they are starting to say it is not a great idea because the high PH of the soapy water messing up the soil acidity and damaging desired microbes and stuff in the soil.


Our septic system does seem to remove soap, although I have no chemical analysis to prove that. The water in the final pumping stage tank looks to very clear, no suds, no floating scum or other visible sign of residue. But that water is only allowed to go to the drainfield of the system as it may have other pathogens in it because it is black and grey water together, just like a combo waste tank would be As they commonly say, "the grass is always greener over the septic tank" although these days it would be drainfield as open bottom septic tanks are completely illegal now.

 

[Dave01a]

FWIW, the 12V LED UV filters are much smaller. Softball to 1/4 bread loaf size. No longer need the long 110V quartz tubes.

 

[GeorgeRad]

I run into, "you can filter out soap from grey water" but rarely with any real documentation and/or test results. ....................

Soap molecules size is a few nanometers, micron filters will not work. Neutralizing it with acid will release “fatty acid” which likely is not water soluble and could be decanted and separated from water.

FWIW, the 12V LED UV filters are much smaller. Softball to 1/4 bread loaf size. No longer need the long 110V quartz tubes.

UV light doesn’t filter, it simply kills bacteria if it is strong enough.

 

[jojobafanzi]

I have a friend that actually owns a sewer treatment plant and you all have no idea what is involved to clean up water to the point it can be reused and the associated smell while you are doing it. Making a portable sewer plant and putting it in a vehicle is absurd for what the OP has asked for our opinion on. Personally if I was in the OP's position, I would carry three five gallon jugs of water for my trip and keep it simple. Gasoline generator and a small tank electric water heater. Cheap quick and easy. No Rube Goldberg needed.

 

[avanti]

...or, you could use one of these:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/cultu...-pumped-sewage-through-its-exhaust-on-purpose ,
eliminate your gray and black tanks, and use the space you saved for lots of extra fresh tank capacity.

 

[GeorgeRad]

...or, you could use one of these:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/cultu...-pumped-sewage-through-its-exhaust-on-purpose ,
eliminate your gray and black tanks, and use the space you saved for lots of extra fresh tank capacity.

This would be a great defensive method for aggressive tailgaters eliminating rear end collision, could be insurance reducing saving.

 

[booster]

...or, you could use one of these:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/cultu...-pumped-sewage-through-its-exhaust-on-purpose ,
eliminate your gray and black tanks, and use the space you saved for lots of extra fresh tank capacity.

I have seen that several times and it one of those "oh my" things. I wonder what that would do to a catalytic converter?


I think one thing I am not sure on is if the van is also a company vehicle where no mods are allowed. That would make it much tougher.

 

[Snowy-ClassB]

For reference, we live with a well and septic system at home, so it sees all the waste from the house, including soaps. Our system is 3 tanks, with two being settling/digestion and the third the "clear" water pumping station to the drainfield where the final digestion is done in a gravel bed via bacteria. The finest filter in this system is about 1/16" opening mesh, so very coarse. It is on the discharge side of the final tank after the lift pump. Both the other tanks have what might be called "gunk filters" as they prevent the floating scum layer from moving on the next tank. They have probably 1/8" openings. The early tanks can get the scum layer thick enough and dried out enough to harden into a barrier that has to be broken up by hand at tank cleanout and pumping if the tanks aren't maintained. Scum layers are mostly soap and grease and are not allowed into the drainfield as they will ruin it quickly. Based on tank sizes and our water use, it probably takes 60+days for the entry water to make it to the outlet of the tanks, so this is not a quick, in use type thing and the soaps and oils are still not removed anyway and have to pumped out and taken to the sanitary sewer system for disposal.


I clean the three filters twice year as a maintenance item between the 3 year code required pump outs. First tank smells somewhat "sewery", the second one more like a grey tank, and third barely smells at all and doesn't even have any floating layer on it. It appears that all the soap is out of the water that enters the third tank, but it is still trapped in the floating layers in the previous ones. Tough to do quickly and in a small system, I think.

Our septic system does seem to remove soap, although I have no chemical analysis to prove that. The water in the final pumping stage tank looks to very clear, no suds, no floating scum or other visible sign of residue. But that water is only allowed to go to the drainfield of the system as it may have other pathogens in it because it is black and grey water together, just like a combo waste tank would be As they commonly say, "the grass is always greener over the septic tank" although these days it would be drainfield as open bottom septic tanks are completely illegal now.

I wonder why your septic situation is so complicated. Is that because you live in MN? Up here in Alaska, I have what most people have which is a regular two-chamber septic tank and a drain field. Surprisingly, Anchorage is running out of land and so people are developing swampier lots and having to add the complication of a lift station and a mounded drain field, or even just a holding tank that gets pumped regularly. Like seemingly everyone else that doesn’t have a very old system with a partially plugged-up drain field, I spend little time thinking about it and just get the septic tank pumped every 3 or 4 years.

 

[booster]

I wonder why your septic situation is so complicated. Is that because you live in MN? Up here in Alaska, I have what most people have which is a regular two-chamber septic tank and a drain field. Surprisingly, Anchorage is running out of land and so people are developing swampier lots and having to add the complication of a lift station and a mounded drain field, or even just a holding tank that gets pumped regularly. Like seemingly everyone else that doesn’t have a very old system with a partially plugged-up drain field, I spend little time thinking about it and just get the septic tank pumped every 3 or 4 years.

Ours got this large when we had to replace the original that sounds like yours is now. 1000 gallon two chamber tank and drainfield underground. The original system was poorly made with no fabric or tar paper over the drainfield underground. We are on a wetland edge and the water table started getting too high and got to the drainfield, washing sand into the pipes and rock bed, plugging them. It was about 20 years old. The new rules required more space between highest water level and the drainfield so we wound up a mound system.


The new rules also wanted a minimum tank capacity that was higher than our tank was so they added another two chamber tank and used one for the extra capacity and the other for the pumping station. So we wound up with and extra chamber and larger than needed capacity.



Code requires only one filter on the outlet of the first chamber but we added the other two because they can help drainfield life a lot, per the University of Minnesota water quality department. We are still required to pump every 3 years even with our extra capacity, though. I clean the filters once or twice a year.


Probably very similar to your areas mound systems that are more complicated than the simple drainfield, but got a bit odd because of the original setup design that made adding a second tank more practical than removing and replacing the existing tank. If out tank had been big enough, they just could have added a pumping chamber, small, tank. Of course building a mound takes a lot of dirt, rock, etc the yard got totally destroyed in the process from all the trucks and machinery.