Bee, your description of what you like/need seems like you should consider the Travato 59K instead of the 59G. The K has the rear bath, and also does not have that “box”, which is the fresh water tank. We have the 59K. It will get between 16-18 mpg, and if you keep it between 55-60, you can push close to 20. As most people know though, Class B prices, new and used, have gotten out of control! I’m liking the fact that Mike can get that great of mileage with the 6.0 V-8. That’s awesome. And it’s a great engine. Most of my RV buds get at best 8 mpg with the Ford V-10. It will be interesting to see what kind of MPG the new 7.3L V-8 gets.
How Important is Gas Mileage?
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Bjones7788
Advanced Member
How important is gas mileage - perspective
We rented what we thought would be our choice then test drove about 8 alternative models making sure we caught unterstate tractor trailer bow wave traffic and narrow twisting back roads. This told us a lot. Creature fratures, handling in adverse winds - emergency maneuvers - winding mountain roads - may be overlooked and potentially more important than fuel economy.
BTW, Low ground clearance of Chevy Roadtreks can be corrected by installing 2" or 3" blocks between bottom of springs and rear axls and front suspension - available from multiple aftermarket shops - don't leave home without them.
BJ. - 3rd Roadtrek - out touring as usual.
We rented what we thought would be our choice then test drove about 8 alternative models making sure we caught unterstate tractor trailer bow wave traffic and narrow twisting back roads. This told us a lot. Creature fratures, handling in adverse winds - emergency maneuvers - winding mountain roads - may be overlooked and potentially more important than fuel economy.
BTW, Low ground clearance of Chevy Roadtreks can be corrected by installing 2" or 3" blocks between bottom of springs and rear axls and front suspension - available from multiple aftermarket shops - don't leave home without them.
BJ. - 3rd Roadtrek - out touring as usual.
This is a highly personal question and the answer will vary WIDELY based on personal travel style and individual values. Personally, fuel economy is always a priority for me. It's not just about the fuel cost, although that is definitely important. It's also about minimizing emissions pollution, at least it is to me. The less fuel burned, the less pollution and greenhouse gases added to the atmosphere. In my opinion, this should matter to everyone, at least as much as cost. We all have to breathe the same air, unless you live in a hermetically sealed bubble.
Doneworking
Senior Member
I have never been one to focus on "mileage" because there are just too many other things with a motor home to worry about that cost a heck of a lot more.
Do the math: at 12 mpg vs 18 mpg and a gasoline cost of $2.50 a gallon it is about $70 per thousand miles. Most owners don't drive more than 5-10 thousand miles a year, many drive far less and a few drive far more.
Compared to the dollars spent on storage, depreciation, repairs of the chassis stuff, repairs of the RV stuff, insurance, taxes and so on, it fades in significance.
I would never buy a rig for "mileage". How many miles will you REALLY put on it and what does fuel cost in your area? How fast will you drive? All these are in my mind of far greater magnitude than the cost of an extra tank or two of gasoline to have the size and layout I want, drive the speed I want to drive and I don't intend to minimize the joy of driving and the trip by watching the fuel gauge constantly. Personally, I don't want to drive at fifty mph to get to a destination to save a few bucks on fuel. On the other hand, I may drive fifty mph if I am really enjoying the countryside. But fuel economy is not my goal.
I respect those that focus on this aspect of owning an RV but to a lot of us, it is simply way down the list.
dhectorg in the post above offers, IMO, the only important concern about fuel consumption. However, fuel consumption stated in mpg is only one factor in the calculation of how polluting any vehicle is in terms of total emissions.
Do the math: at 12 mpg vs 18 mpg and a gasoline cost of $2.50 a gallon it is about $70 per thousand miles. Most owners don't drive more than 5-10 thousand miles a year, many drive far less and a few drive far more.
Compared to the dollars spent on storage, depreciation, repairs of the chassis stuff, repairs of the RV stuff, insurance, taxes and so on, it fades in significance.
I would never buy a rig for "mileage". How many miles will you REALLY put on it and what does fuel cost in your area? How fast will you drive? All these are in my mind of far greater magnitude than the cost of an extra tank or two of gasoline to have the size and layout I want, drive the speed I want to drive and I don't intend to minimize the joy of driving and the trip by watching the fuel gauge constantly. Personally, I don't want to drive at fifty mph to get to a destination to save a few bucks on fuel. On the other hand, I may drive fifty mph if I am really enjoying the countryside. But fuel economy is not my goal.
I respect those that focus on this aspect of owning an RV but to a lot of us, it is simply way down the list.
dhectorg in the post above offers, IMO, the only important concern about fuel consumption. However, fuel consumption stated in mpg is only one factor in the calculation of how polluting any vehicle is in terms of total emissions.
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There are two categories of emissions. One includes the unwanted byproducts of inefficient combustion, the things that contribute to air pollution. To minimize that impact, newer is generally better than older, and at any age, maintenance is key.
As newer vehicles have become very “clean” in terms of pollutants, the conversation now has shifted to carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas that is a normal product of efficient combustion. It is directly related to both quantity and type of fuel burned. Other things equal, diesel uses less fuel per mile driven than gasoline but produces more carbon dioxide per gallon burned. Not quite a wash, but close.
To minimize that impact, you do have to burn less fuel, so choose a fuel-efficient RV, consider the aerodynamic profile, lighten the load, modify your driving habits, and most important, drive fewer miles. It does not necessarily mean sacrificing comfort or curtailing travel, but it might mean taking a slower pace and savoring each place you stop before moving on. It can also mean taking a hard look at how much RV you really need to be comfortable.
Of course there are other environmental impacts to be weighed alongside those from driving an RV, including those related to manufacture (van and conversion) and coach operation (LP vs. solar/electric, for example).
EDIT... After I posted this reply, I was struck by the irony of the ad that appeared directly below it, so I’ll share a screenshot for your amusement. It's also a reminder that pretty much any Class B is a good choice in the bigger RV landscape.
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shadow-ClassB
New Member
That is true to a point, but the cost of fuel and mpg
Is still something we as RV owners need to consider.
Is still something we as RV owners need to consider.
I’m not above picking up a coin on the sidewalk (though Covid has me rethinking that), so I’m all for sacrificing a bit for better mpg’s.
“Bee, your description of what you like/need seems like you should consider the Travato 59K instead of the 59G.”
If you do like the openness of the K Travato, but prefer to have a ready made bed, you could consider cutting the bed center piece and sleeping side to side since you are petite. Then you have room to put a table up for work, dining, or guest seating.
This is what I did in my Banff (same floor plan as Travato K, about a foot shorter though). Last trip got 19.3 mpg, best ever, 60 - 63 mph.
“Bee, your description of what you like/need seems like you should consider the Travato 59K instead of the 59G.”
If you do like the openness of the K Travato, but prefer to have a ready made bed, you could consider cutting the bed center piece and sleeping side to side since you are petite. Then you have room to put a table up for work, dining, or guest seating.
This is what I did in my Banff (same floor plan as Travato K, about a foot shorter though). Last trip got 19.3 mpg, best ever, 60 - 63 mph.
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InterBlog
Senior Member
Rather than a simple per-mile analysis, propagate your fuel usage through actual usage scenarios. That might give you a better feel for your priorities.
For example...
Cross-border family here, and we travel round-trip from Houston to northeastern Nova Scotia at least once every year. Each trip by van costs me about $750 for diesel, and our van is off-grid, so we have zero other direct costs (no hotels, no campgrounds, no hookups). Obviously we still have to pay for groceries, but we'd be doing that regardless of location.
The same trip for two adults by air can be counted on to cost us at least $3,000 for air tickets, rental car, hotels, and restaurant meals, even if we spend most of our time with family using their stove and fridge and buying groceries instead of eating out (Nova Scotia has a very short tourist season, and prices are extremely high by American standards).
The fuel mileage doesn't look so bad to me when I consider that it's saving me about $2,250 a pop.
Not to mention the huge gain in quality of life factor in the context of our lifestyle (which requires that we travel with items such as a chain saw) and our absolute unbounded loathing of United Airlines.
For example...
Cross-border family here, and we travel round-trip from Houston to northeastern Nova Scotia at least once every year. Each trip by van costs me about $750 for diesel, and our van is off-grid, so we have zero other direct costs (no hotels, no campgrounds, no hookups). Obviously we still have to pay for groceries, but we'd be doing that regardless of location.
The same trip for two adults by air can be counted on to cost us at least $3,000 for air tickets, rental car, hotels, and restaurant meals, even if we spend most of our time with family using their stove and fridge and buying groceries instead of eating out (Nova Scotia has a very short tourist season, and prices are extremely high by American standards).
The fuel mileage doesn't look so bad to me when I consider that it's saving me about $2,250 a pop.
Not to mention the huge gain in quality of life factor in the context of our lifestyle (which requires that we travel with items such as a chain saw) and our absolute unbounded loathing of United Airlines.
We have had our Roadtrek Chevy 190P for 12 years now, and originally the decision on a B was heavily influenced by fuel economy. We would drive carefully and at lower speeds to achieve higher gas mileage.
The longer we have been using the B, however, the less importance we put on the fuel economy, even though we still check it regularly (mostly to watch for aberrations that might indicate a vehicle problem that needs to be addressed). Our justifications seem to have drifted nearly completely from cost vs cost originally to cost vs personal benefit now. Most of the changes started when we were still working and were doing longer and longer trips during our time off. We quickly found that driving a bit faster could get us extra time in the area we were headed vs being on the road. Saving a day of driving each way on a two week trip was kind of big deal, at least for us.
The faster, lower mileage, profile has pretty much taken over at this point and I think we would be hard to return to endless days at lower speeds when we have a long ways to go. The social, ecological, issue is still there and sometimes is hard to justify, but just seeing a couple of huge RVs with one or two travelers in them makes us at least feel a bit better.:blush:
The longer we have been using the B, however, the less importance we put on the fuel economy, even though we still check it regularly (mostly to watch for aberrations that might indicate a vehicle problem that needs to be addressed). Our justifications seem to have drifted nearly completely from cost vs cost originally to cost vs personal benefit now. Most of the changes started when we were still working and were doing longer and longer trips during our time off. We quickly found that driving a bit faster could get us extra time in the area we were headed vs being on the road. Saving a day of driving each way on a two week trip was kind of big deal, at least for us.
The faster, lower mileage, profile has pretty much taken over at this point and I think we would be hard to return to endless days at lower speeds when we have a long ways to go. The social, ecological, issue is still there and sometimes is hard to justify, but just seeing a couple of huge RVs with one or two travelers in them makes us at least feel a bit better.:blush:
With my last diesel truck I got 30% more miles on a full tank of fuel than I would with a gas engine in the same vehicle. Out in the western USA there are many small towns with gas stations that are not open 24x7 and many that do not pump diesel.
I got more range with the diesel but needed that range to be able to find a place that pumped diesel. I spent a great deal of time with my trip planning locating places that sold diesel so I had in any given area multiple options for getting diesel.
Fuel consumption also is more about hours of operation than miles driven. On back roads at 35 mph or in a city area the miles per gallon were 25% less than if I was driving at a steady speed down the highway.
A separate matter for me was the DEF system that had problems with sensors and DEF tank pump and DEF tank warmer and with poor computer programming that would generate error codes and put the truck into limp mode where the speed was limited to 55 mph (hairy when trying to merge with big rigs on the highway). I had four trips cut short due to the emissions control system with my GM truck and after that I would never own a diesel powered RV.
Diesel does not save anyone money. The RV is going to be at least $5,000 more expensive and the engine needs oil changes more often and fuel filter changes even more often and two starting batteries and the heavier engine is tougher on the front suspension components. For a Class A motorhome a diesel engine's torque is necessary but for anything smaller it is a luxury.
I got more range with the diesel but needed that range to be able to find a place that pumped diesel. I spent a great deal of time with my trip planning locating places that sold diesel so I had in any given area multiple options for getting diesel.
Fuel consumption also is more about hours of operation than miles driven. On back roads at 35 mph or in a city area the miles per gallon were 25% less than if I was driving at a steady speed down the highway.
A separate matter for me was the DEF system that had problems with sensors and DEF tank pump and DEF tank warmer and with poor computer programming that would generate error codes and put the truck into limp mode where the speed was limited to 55 mph (hairy when trying to merge with big rigs on the highway). I had four trips cut short due to the emissions control system with my GM truck and after that I would never own a diesel powered RV.
Diesel does not save anyone money. The RV is going to be at least $5,000 more expensive and the engine needs oil changes more often and fuel filter changes even more often and two starting batteries and the heavier engine is tougher on the front suspension components. For a Class A motorhome a diesel engine's torque is necessary but for anything smaller it is a luxury.
jb1965
Advanced Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2013
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When bought my rig I thought MPG would be very important, but 4 years later i just enjoy the trips and I tended to speed with the crowd so I get 11-13 MPG. I really like pulling over to take naps and make quick sandwich or just stopping for the night is when i feel like it.
I thought a lot more about MPG and gas costs many years ago when gas was approaching $4/gal and a fillup cost $100. Now at $2/gal it doesn't hurt as bad so I think about it a lot less.
wny-pat
Senior Member
I remember the price of gas in Germany in 1980!!! It was hitting $3.00 a gallon at the PX station! I remember the gas shortage of 1973 and 1979 when if there was gas you could only buy gas every other day, depending on if your license plate was even or odd and the day was even or odd.
The price of gas did not enter into my purchase of my rcurrent Roadtrek! But the shop rate of working on my motorhome did!! My previous motorhome was a diesel and when it cost me $15,000 for one particular visit to a Cummins dealer, I realized my next would not be a diesel. I had to buy a re-manufactured engine because my engine had swallowed a valve. I can buy a gas engine a heck of a lot cheaper than a diesel!! And the labor of installing it is a lot cheaper than that of a diesel pusher!
As to MPG, it doesn't bother me one it. I spent much of my career in refineries, gas stations and truck stops. I am a retired petroleum transport driver. My pension was funded by petroleum. So you guys and gals keep traveling and buying gas and diesel. Stop worrying and enjoy life!! I sure am!! :noel:
The price of gas did not enter into my purchase of my rcurrent Roadtrek! But the shop rate of working on my motorhome did!! My previous motorhome was a diesel and when it cost me $15,000 for one particular visit to a Cummins dealer, I realized my next would not be a diesel. I had to buy a re-manufactured engine because my engine had swallowed a valve. I can buy a gas engine a heck of a lot cheaper than a diesel!! And the labor of installing it is a lot cheaper than that of a diesel pusher!
As to MPG, it doesn't bother me one it. I spent much of my career in refineries, gas stations and truck stops. I am a retired petroleum transport driver. My pension was funded by petroleum. So you guys and gals keep traveling and buying gas and diesel. Stop worrying and enjoy life!! I sure am!! :noel:
Diesel engines are worthwhile if one has a RV that weighs more than 8,000 lbs or plans to tow more than 4,000 lbs with a trailer or toad. The auto companies are pushing baby diesels as it helps they with their fleet average MPG and their customers pay the added costs of ownership.
Very few diesel buyers appreciate that diesel is a very dirty fuel and if only 2% of the particles get past the fuel filter than more than 200,000 particles are hitting the injector solenoids at high speed with every gallon burned. Injectors have a much shorter life in diesel engines and replacing a set on a V-8 will cost the owner more than $4,000 for this single repair job.
It is also nearly impossible to find a competent diesel mechanic at a Ford or Chevy or Ram dealership when problems do arrise and that is if you are in a large urban area.
Very few diesel buyers appreciate that diesel is a very dirty fuel and if only 2% of the particles get past the fuel filter than more than 200,000 particles are hitting the injector solenoids at high speed with every gallon burned. Injectors have a much shorter life in diesel engines and replacing a set on a V-8 will cost the owner more than $4,000 for this single repair job.
It is also nearly impossible to find a competent diesel mechanic at a Ford or Chevy or Ram dealership when problems do arrise and that is if you are in a large urban area.
I didn’t know diesel particles can hit injector’s solenoids, a link with supporting evidence that solenoids are getting hit would be great. Life expectancy on Sprinters is about 150-250K miles. A replacement cost by a dealer is $3.2K or significantly less outside of the dealer network - one half - $1.5 (about the same as timing belt replacement on VW TDIs every 80K miles).
Modern diesels have emission control complexity problems to larger degree than fuel injectors failing solenoids.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/...lking with a bosch,spec around 150-250k miles.
https://repairpal.com/estimator/mer...age cost for a,factor in your unique location.
wny-pat
Senior Member
Dave in Nevada
Member
In my old Diesel pusher Class A it made a big difference the faster I went. I finally settled for 65 mph. In my new Winnebago Roam at 65 to 70 mph I got 18 mpg on a 1400 mile trip over the Rocky Mountains. If the cost of gas is a concern you can save a bunch by simply driving slower.
not sure where this thread is right now. As others have stated: math. If you drive 6000miles/year at 15mpg you'll use 400 gallons of gas. If your RV gets 20mpg you'll use 300 gallons. That's 100 gallons difference. At $4/gallon that's $400 and not meaningful to me.
N147JK
Senior Member
Another part of the math is the acquisition cost. The high-MPG diesel vans cost so much more to purchase that the fuel cost savings never catch up. I once figured it would take 20 years @ 25,000 miles/year before a newer diesel van would "pay for itself". It's not going to happen. That doesn't even factor in the higher cost of maintenance and availability of parts.
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