Boondocking power ???

[campbugjan1]

As a wannabe newbie owner, my question is if your Norcold Tek2 fridge is ac/dc only,how do you keep your food cold when boondocking? I do have an Igloo dc powered cooler but that works only when the van ignition is on..

 

[InterBlog]

Welcome to the forum.

You have stepped into a massive topic with a massive learning curve.

That's OK, because that's what forums are for. Many of us have climbed that same learning curve after stepping onto it ourselves.

Short answer:

(1) Many of us upgraded our vans to include more sophisticated power systems that could run the things (including fridges) off grid.
(2) Others of us with six-ish figures to spare bought higher-end vans that already had substantial off-grid capabilities, such that they did not need to DIY.

In MY case, I took it one step further by augmenting a very expensive DIY electrical upgrade with a monolithic ice block transportation procedure that greatly extends my food supply generally, because most of what I do is boondock.

Short interrelated questions, the answers to which will help people to respond to your question:

(1) What do you wish to achieve for yourself exactly in terms of boondocking?

(2) What is your budget for achieving it?

You say newbie wannabe but then you mention a specific fridge model, so I can't tell whether you already own a van with that fridge in it or not, or are looking at one, etc.

 

[Davydd]

The 12V sockets on the dash generally have to have the key on but not start the engine, though the Sprinters have a 12V socket hot all the time below the socket used traditionally for cigarette lighters though that hot socket is to the chassis battery and not recommended to use it for a fridge, IMO. If the Class B manufacturer installs 12V sockets outside the cab they probably are hot all the time as they connect directly the house batteries and not the chassis battery. Those could be used for an Igloo cooler. Also, if it is a compressor fridge that is 120/12V the Class B manufacturer will install the 12V directly to the House battery. All you have to do is have enough house battery capacity to do what you want and how long in a boondocking situation, and of course, know your electrical power usage to achieve it.

 

[campbugjan1]

Regarding my PA newbiePost on boondocking- I should have said like overnight parking,not long term..I thought I did a pretty thorough exam of the interior but got home and realized I didn't notice a place for a house battery..It is a '92 Dodge Ram350 LER Ind...with rear dinette and side bathroom so do you know if it has a place and where would that be? There would have to be one for the furnace.. I am sure the battery would have been removed but where should it be located? My tt's were installed on the tongue. I will be buying it this weekend hopefully..my neighbor passed away so it's in an estate right now..I am only a newbie to Class Bs... Does the convertor charge the house battery? So many ????s ! Lol..thanks so much!

 

[GallenH]

Regarding my PA newbiePost on boondocking- I should have said like overnight parking,not long term..I thought I did a pretty thorough exam of the interior but got home and realized I didn't notice a place for a house battery..It is a '92 Dodge Ram350 LER Ind...with rear dinette and side bathroom so do you know if it has a place and where would that be?

On my 97 PleasureWay (Dodge 3500) there is a place when you open the rear door to store things. There are 2 compartments in the floor which are well hidden by the carpet. The one in the middle is easy to see and opens to a storage compartment. But there's also one that covers the battery box and it's hard to see. You could look under the RV and see if you can see a battery box. It would probably have a few large holes in the sides to provide venting.

There would have to be one for the furnace.. I am sure the battery would have been removed but where should it be located? My tt's were installed on the tongue. I will be buying it this weekend hopefully..my neighbor passed away so it's in an estate right now..I am only a newbie to Class Bs... Does the convertor charge the house battery? So many ????s ! Lol..thanks so much!

My house battery is charged by the convertor and also by the engine alternator when you have the engine running.

 

[OregonTrader]

Our camper has 2 AGM batteries to power the coach. We can run the 12VDC compressor fridge (AC/DC only, no propane), propane furnace fan, and lights, exhaust fans, etc. overnight, no problem. In our van, the chassis battery is under the driver's feet and the coach batteries are under the hood. Your coach batteries may be in a storage area, such as in the steps from the side door or elsewhere. Enjoy!

 

[engnrsrule]

Your coach battery could be under a seat, under the hood, or even under the floor. You can verify if there is one by taking the positive lead off the engine battery and seeing if any of your coach outlets or lights have power. Do a net search on the conversion and see if info is available there.

A 12v fridge can be a current hog. When the propane cycle went out on my 3 way fridge while boondocking, running on 12v killed my coach battery (then 90 ah) in a few hours. I since upgraded to 235 ah of coach power. That can carry me a few days, but I usually run it on propane when boindocking.

You should not run your fridge off the starting battery. The engine battery is not a deep cycle battery and running it like one will shorten its life.

You can check spec of your fridge and see what it draws, then size the coach battery with sufficient ah to cover the time.

Install a battery monitor like victron to determine what your status and longevity is at any moment. This helps you plan boondicking capacity.

Your vehicle's alternator should be set up to charge the coach battery when your are underway.

 

[B&JinNC]

Your coach battery could be under a seat, under the hood, or even under the floor. You can verify if there is one by taking the positive lead off the engine battery and seeing if any of your coach outlets or lights have power. Do a net search on the conversion and see if info is available there.

A 12v fridge can be a current hog. When the propane cycle went out on my 3 way fridge while boondocking, running on 12v killed my coach battery (then 90 ah) in a few hours. I since upgraded to 235 ah of coach power. That can carry me a few days, but I usually run it on propane when boindocking.

You should not run your fridge off the starting battery. The engine battery is not a deep cycle battery and running it like one will shorten its life.

You can check spec of your fridge and see what it draws, then size the coach battery with sufficient ah to cover the time.

Install a battery monitor like victron to determine what your status and longevity is at any moment. This helps you plan boondicking capacity.

Your vehicle's alternator should be set up to charge the coach battery when your are underway.

Running a three way (ammonia cycle) fridge on 12v consumes far more (maybe 10x) power than a modern compressor type. It is completely feasible to run a compressor fridge off of house batteries but it all depends on the specifics of your situation.

 

[calamityannie]

Regarding my PA newbiePost on boondocking- I should have said like overnight parking,not long term..I thought I did a pretty thorough exam of the interior but got home and realized I didn't notice a place for a house battery..It is a '92 Dodge Ram350 LER Ind...with rear dinette and side bathroom so do you know if it has a place and where would that be? There would have to be one for the furnace.. I am sure the battery would have been removed but where should it be located? My tt's were installed on the tongue. I will be buying it this weekend hopefully..my neighbor passed away so it's in an estate right now..I am only a newbie to Class Bs... Does the convertor charge the house battery? So many ????s ! Lol..thanks so much!

Our battery is located underneath the van, left rear corner by the generator and propane tank. Real pain to install every year, very tight space but have discovered a mirror helps to see the terminals. We have a Chevy 2002 Roadtrek 200 poplar, no rear door, has the pass through storage. Hope this helps.

 

[stevegoldfield]

I have a Carado Banff with a refrigerator that only runs on 12V. I have two lithium iron batteries and an AGM plus two 100W solar panels. I can boondock for 2 or 3 days at most before I lose power. And I camp at one place where there are no hookups for 7 or 8 days. I also have an underhood generator which is pretty quiet since the engine is idling. I can extend the number of days by periodically running it for 15 to 30 min. to bring up the charge in the batteries. Overnight should not be an issue if you have sufficient battery capacity. I've been looking at installing propane fuel cells. I have room for two from one company (unfortunately they aren't selling retail yet). The problem with that, however, is that they use about half a pound of propane an hour. They would be set to come on when the voltage drops below a specified number, probably something like 12.6V so they wouldn't run all the time. Still, I have a 6-gallon propane tank (effective about 4.7 because you can't fill them to more than 80 percent). I'm concerned that I'd have to install a second, larger propane tank, and there really isn't a good place to put that. If you have a large rig, you likely have lots of options. But for my Class B, I have yet to hear of a workable solution. Propane weighs 4.25 pounds per gallon. I have about 20 pounds of propane or 40 hours at half a pound per hour. The problem is that I also use propane to cook and to heat water. So, it might work, but I'd hate to run out of propane while boondocking. If I install two fuel cells, that would be a pound an hour. If I only have to run them for an hour a day, that would probably work. At 2 hours or more a day, I think I'd run out.

 

[SteveJ-ClassB]

Our battery is located underneath the van, left rear corner by the generator and propane tank. Real pain to install every year, very tight space but have discovered a mirror helps to see the terminals. We have a Chevy 2002 Roadtrek 200 poplar, no rear door, has the pass through storage. Hope this helps.

I also have a RT 200, a 2000. I relocated the propane fill hose over to the right a few inches(as far as I could and still maintain fillability). This accomplished two things. It made the battery install and removal quite a bit easier and eliminated the requirement to remove the trailer hitch draw bar(and trailer) to fill the propane.

Easy peasy to do.

 

[GallenH]

I have a Carado Banff with a refrigerator that only runs on 12V. I have two lithium iron batteries and an AGM plus two 100W solar panels. I can boondock for 2 or 3 days at most before I lose power. And I camp at one place where there are no hookups for 7 or 8 days. I also have an underhood generator which is pretty quiet since the engine is idling. I can extend the number of days by periodically running it for 15 to 30 min. to bring up the charge in the batteries. Overnight should not be an issue if you have sufficient battery capacity. I've been looking at installing propane fuel cells. I have room for two from one company (unfortunately they aren't selling retail yet). The problem with that, however, is that they use about half a pound of propane an hour. They would be set to come on when the voltage drops below a specified number, probably something like 12.6V so they wouldn't run all the time. Still, I have a 6-gallon propane tank (effective about 4.7 because you can't fill them to more than 80 percent). I'm concerned that I'd have to install a second, larger propane tank, and there really isn't a good place to put that. If you have a large rig, you likely have lots of options. But for my Class B, I have yet to hear of a workable solution. Propane weighs 4.25 pounds per gallon. I have about 20 pounds of propane or 40 hours at half a pound per hour. The problem is that I also use propane to cook and to heat water. So, it might work, but I'd hate to run out of propane while boondocking. If I install two fuel cells, that would be a pound an hour. If I only have to run them for an hour a day, that would probably work. At 2 hours or more a day, I think I'd run out.

Seems like your underhood generator is the easiest route. The lithiums should charge faster than the AGM. How are the two battery systems interconnected? Have you thought about one of the quiet Honda generators to run your charger?

 

[markopolo-ClassB]

I have a Carado Banff with a refrigerator that only runs on 12V. I have two lithium iron batteries and an AGM plus two 100W solar panels. I can boondock for 2 or 3 days at most before I lose power. And I camp at one place where there are no hookups for 7 or 8 days. I also have an underhood generator which is pretty quiet since the engine is idling. I can extend the number of days by periodically running it for 15 to 30 min. to bring up the charge in the batteries. Overnight should not be an issue if you have sufficient battery capacity. I've been looking at installing propane fuel cells. I have room for two from one company (unfortunately they aren't selling retail yet). The problem with that, however, is that they use about half a pound of propane an hour. They would be set to come on when the voltage drops below a specified number, probably something like 12.6V so they wouldn't run all the time. Still, I have a 6-gallon propane tank (effective about 4.7 because you can't fill them to more than 80 percent). I'm concerned that I'd have to install a second, larger propane tank, and there really isn't a good place to put that. If you have a large rig, you likely have lots of options. But for my Class B, I have yet to hear of a workable solution. Propane weighs 4.25 pounds per gallon. I have about 20 pounds of propane or 40 hours at half a pound per hour. The problem is that I also use propane to cook and to heat water. So, it might work, but I'd hate to run out of propane while boondocking. If I install two fuel cells, that would be a pound an hour. If I only have to run them for an hour a day, that would probably work. At 2 hours or more a day, I think I'd run out.

If your setup is from the factory and not aftermarket then "two lithium iron batteries" might be two modules and the modules are 200Ah each so 400Ah total.

With 200W solar (and 400Ah battery capacity) you should have near unlimited boondocking capability with the compressor fridge but excluding air conditioner use.

The problem is the parasitic loses of the system.

starrski posted a PDF that gives the amount of loss to be expected

https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f23/no-dc-power-hymer-v2-10442-2.html#post111637

View attachment 2018.10.15 Lithiums dead - reset procedure and checks.pdf

from the pdf:

In addition, when turned on,even if there are no lights on in the coach or anything running on battery, the lithium modules will have an inherent self-discharge due to the internal relays and electronics of between 5 and 10 Amps per hour that will continue to drain them(Battery Management System).

In the worst case, 10 amps per hour loss (-10Ah) is a staggering 240Ah loss per day. The best case of 5 amps per hour from that document is still unbelievably bad in my opinion. 120Ah per day lost to battery management.

Fridge could be 60Ah per day out and 200W solar 60Ah per day in so net zero. 3 days of 120Ah lost to battery management explains why you "lose power".