RoadTrek / Erwin Hymer Group Criminal Scandal Destroying Lives and Careers Worldwide

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Not helpful. Basically you are both dwelling on the past, when even the OP has owned up to his original purchase and moved on to what does he do from here.
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I will keep in short and simple: Put a sock in it.....

Most of us learn from the situations others experience. That is the purpose of having a forum to share information. If someone visiting this blog reads this thread from the OP and subsequent comments, hopefully they will not make the same mistake.

Others who have experience obtaining resolution under similar conditions will offer suggestions - do you have anything productive to share?

The last thing I am looking from you is moderation of content. Stay in your lane and let the moderators do their job.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Not helpful. Basically you are both dwelling on the past, when even the OP has owned up to his original purchase and moved on to what does he do from here.
.

I literally need a time machine to take any of this “advice”.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

I will keep in short and simple: Put a sock in it.....

Most of us learn from the situations others experience. That is the purpose of having a forum to share information. If someone visiting this blog reads this thread from the OP and subsequent comments, hopefully they will not make the same mistake.

Others who have experience obtaining resolution under similar conditions will offer suggestions - do you have anything productive to share?

The last thing I am looking from you is moderation of content. Stay in your lane and let the moderators do their job.

This scenario where someone finds this forum in their search is not my experience of this forum.

Anyway, I’m unsubscribing. You all are not helping.

Have fun being the smartest dude in the chatroom.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

I will keep in short and simple: Put a sock in it.....
The last thing I am looking from you is moderation of content. Stay in your lane and let the moderators do their job.

By all means, proceed then, as that is your choice (and I never inferred it wasn't). "Put a sock in it", however, is a low class response and beneath your usual insightful posts.
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[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Logan

I literally need a time machine to take any of this “advice”.

Maybe her suggestions may help you on warranty repairs going forward @ 20:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Brdeizkxoc

[warpig]

Originally Posted by Logan

Oh yes. I’ve redirected my efforts. They are 100% to blame ultimately.

What may further complicate things is that EHGNA owns Best Time RV. They are still online.

[avanti]

Hey, I've got an idea:
Maybe we could get our heads together and help Logan to fix his van. We are collectively a lot better at that than we are at empathy, apparently.

Logan:
Maybe you can say a little about what it would take to make your van functional for you, and also a bit about your skillset.

EDIT:
Oops. Looks like I may have been too late.
This thread is not our finest hour.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by warpig

What may further complicate things is that EHGNA owns Best Time RV. They are still online.

Great find.... This and the video above (in this thread) could make a person never want another RV.

She owns a Leisure Travel RV . Is there no safe company to buy a reliable RV from? /s

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Hey, I've got an idea:
Maybe we could get our heads together and help Logan to fix his van. We are collectively a lot better at that than we are at empathy, apparently.

Logan:
Maybe you can say a little about what it would take to make your van functional for you, and also a bit about your skillset.

EDIT:
Oops. Looks like I may have been too late.
This thread is not our finest hour.

Couldn't have said it better. Great example of the opposite of what this forum should be---helpful

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by booster

Couldn't have said it better. Great example of the opposite of what this forum should be---helpful

Sad, but true.

I have little help to offer Logan for the following reasons:

1) I purchased a used class b with no warranty and therefore no expectations of one.
2) I've already experienced a bad + expensive (perhaps unscrupulous) rv service dept, so I quickly determined I needed to do my own repair work.

But I'm not Logan. I'm more practically inclined (no creative or musical talent genes in my DNA), retired, and handy. So I have the time to devote to keeping my RV functioning and on the road. Even that, was a learning experience over time and with much help from this forum.

Logan needs his selling dealer to step up, but they have already demonstrated they will not. Lawsuit? More time and money he does not have.

This puts him in a tough spot of probably dumping his van for whatever he can get for it as it is having too negative an impact on his future earning capability. A very tough spot that I hope none of us ever gets into.
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[TerrierTude]

I think Logan deleted his membership here. I reached out to him on a Facebook group and asked him to come back.

Wouldn't it be great if we could start a thread: Logan's Virtual Van Rebuild. Then Logan can enumerate exactly what all his problems are one by one and we can offer crowdsourced solutions, referrals, perhaps a line on parts and get him back on the road. It would be a great testiment to the skills in this forum and a earn us loads of Kharmic brownie points. And I say "we" as if I have any skills to offer other than cheerleading.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by booster

Couldn't have said it better. Great example of the opposite of what this forum should be---helpful

Let's turn a negative into a positive...

Warranty Situation EHG NA - Post Receivership

Given the web sites is down and the company is in receivership, are owners of EHG NA vehicles operating without an enforceable warranty?

If one goes to their dealer from which they purchased should they be expected to pay out of pocket until clarity is provided? Keeping receipts is important in any event. A paid for warranty that cannot be exercised is deemed a demonstrated loss.

Recommended Repair Services

Creativity RV (who experienced a lot of warranty challenges) has asked her almost 60K subscribers to identify by region service companies they recommend for quality work.

People may want to view the most recent post and exchange resources on her site and others.

[ClassB4Me]

Logan Lynn Speaking to the Press

My apologies if the video has already been shared.

CTV - Owners Out In The Cold

[bwolfsohn]

Logan,
I'm sorry for your awful experience. Unfortunately, it's not a unique experience in this industry.
Wincrasher, I thought your reply was out of line. Victim blaming is NOT cool.
YOU may know better, NOW I know better. But 6 months ago, i didn't know much more than Logan did when he purchased. I got lucky, he got screwed..
Most of us didn't really know enough when we purchased our first RV. I dare to say most of us would make a different purchase decision after a year's worth of hands on experience.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by avanti

...
This thread is not our finest hour.

+1

Which is EXACTLY why, when people say things like, "Oh, the OP should have checked Facebook to find the truth", I roll my eyes. I don't participate in any of the non-forum social media groups for van-related purposes - never have. WAY too much garbage in Facebook on every level. Even if any given predicament's bottom line is in that space, I'll never be able to locate it (or if I could, it would be too inefficient).

@Rowiebowie: Toto, I have a feeling we're not on Air Forums any more. We have done a pretty good job of cultivating a respectful, productive group in the Airstream Interstate subforum. It was gruesome several years ago, but we have somehow managed to prune a lot of the deadwood. It's not perfect by any means, but at least I don't have to brace myself for the flinging of hand grenades when I open up the homepage.

However, I'm convinced that the problem at issue here is the Social Knowledge LLC forum format itself (or whichever corporation they might have recently sold to). AND the Facebook format. On Instagram yesterday, what I noted is that we really need a respected and vetted clearinghouse of information for buyers and owners, with the goal of preventing the kinds of missteps and innocent entrapments that happen to Logan, that happen to ClassBWarned, that happened to Air Forums poster Eyechip whose batteries fell out onto an interstate highway, and so many other buyers who get into situations that they could never have imagined in advance.

I'm not an IT person; I don't know exactly what that improved space would look like or how it would be designed. I DO know that it would have to take the ratings issue much, much further than any of the current forum formats. The personal reputational hierarchy needs to be far more robust. That way, all posters - but especially newbies - will have an easier time separating the wheat from the chaff.

That is exactly why Facebook fails as resoundingly as it does, and Twitter too for that matter - "likes" are not necessarily correlated with any objective measure of quality or set of verifiable facts. Instead, "likes" tend to be correlated with sales shmooze - which is exactly the same problem that exists at Class B brick-and-mortar dealerships and with the manufacturers themselves. And so here we are.

[rowiebowie]

Interblog,

I'm still on airforums but less I was at first. It was very helpful and supportive and helped me through several problems I had. That and some helpful youtube videos gave me the confidence to tackle problems myself. It was a process that took time and didn't happen over night.

I'm here more now. Mostly due to more Chevy chassis owners and have found this forum also helpful and supportive. This thread is an exception. Comments have not been that harsh, but in the context of a new member in an extremely dire circumstance, yes, the effect was driving that new member away.
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[NotStock Photo]

Hey man sorry for your troubles. I live in my sprinter full time for my business to the tune of 70/90k a year depending on assignments. You should always have a backup that protects you from being stuck by notorious break downs of any RV/bus/sprintervan. I keep a card just for rental car purchases, and always make sure I have some downtime for maintenance. In fact I’m at Mercedes Benz of Georgetown today for general maintenance, HomeWrecker is then in a booth for Kicker Car Audio in Houston this weekend, and then I drop it off in Stillwater Ok to get the bed raised while I have shoots in frigid cold temps in Toledo/Detroit/Bismarck(in a rental car)

[mumkin]

Personally I much prefer this sort of format for help with repairs and ease of finding pros and cons of a Class B option.

The obvious and unhealthy puff pages on Facebook like Roadtreking under Wendland should be openly labeled as such... and that its Admin was a paid advertiser... not really an employee, as such.

That said... the policing and restrictions and banning of anyone who dared to ask for help when their new rigs die with the new tech (like me and my experience with one of the very first lithiums...silly me) led to change. Almost immediately, a member started a new private page for owners of Roadtreks and Hymers - actually 2 of them. Eventually there was also one for Aktiv owners (the Admin of which owns a rental company in CA for B vans...but he never uses that fact to attract customers). And another for Simplicity and Zion owners. All of these owners pages provide lots of help with basic repairs and walk lots of newbies through purchasing and winterizing and why is my fridge freezing all the food no matter the setting. It doesn't work as well as this forum format because it isn't searchable, but it certainly demonstrates the good, the bad, and the ugly for people.

But one reality is that the majority of the owners are happy with their van and love using it. So could a new buyer, like our OP, still be somewhat mislead? It could go either way... because most of the posters are there because they have a problem with said rig. Of course right now all of them are... like here... full of discussions of the debacle with lots of panic, anger, and frustration. But very little policing, except for a couple threads that (like here) turned into personal attacks.

I don't see an easy answer to how a new purchaser, like Logan, avoids being mislead on the interwebs. If he comes back, I know that the other posters here have the skills to help him get back in his van and on the road.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by mumkin

...It doesn't work as well as this forum format because it isn't searchable, ....

But one reality is that the majority of the owners are happy with their van and love using it. ...... because most of the posters are there because they have a problem with said rig. ....very little policing, except for a couple threads that (like here) turned into personal attacks.

I don't see an easy answer to how a new purchaser, like Logan, avoids being mislead on the interwebs. ....

True that last bit - if it were easy, it would have been done already.

Here's what I'd like to see such a site encompass:

(1) True hierarchical development and searchability. Social Knowledge LLC developed its products based on a chit-chat model, not a repository-of-information model. That severely limits the utility of these forums.

(2) The ability to compile statistics. On Air Forums, we, too have noted that many people specifically arrive WITH problems already in hand, so we are presumably seeing skewed statistics. But the real answer to this is both yes AND no - the number of people who joyously show up as issue-free new owners only to degenerate into multiple problems and warranty claims has been surprisingly high. In other words, they showed up without any problems and to the surprise of many, quickly descended into hell. It would be a huge consumer benefit if someone could start extracting statistics on exactly what is happening in that regard. The technology exists; it just hasn't been leveraged in this context yet.

(3) Not policing but rather MULTI-modal personal rating schemes. The *users* need to police the contributors via their feedback, not the moderators - that's the other big limitation of forums, is the outmoded labor-intensive moderator paradigm. Visualize a system that combines something akin to Amazon's rating system with eBay's buyer reliability system with another authentication factor which addresses the contributor's social skills. Many of the higher-functioning engineering types interact in ways that may be off-putting to others to the point where those others simply won't particulate - it's the good old fashioned nerd syndrome rearing its nerdy head. If we had a multi-modal description tile revealing those kinds of ratings in advance, then people would gain a better idea of when to take sharp-tongued responses with a grain of salt. And contributors who really bombed out on one rating or another could be suitably de-emphasized such that fewer posters would be driven away as a result. Just as poor-quality sellers are essentially driven off eBay.

I can contribute to algorithmic scoping, but I certainly cannot write the corresponding program. Someone eventually will, though, because there is money to be made from Smart Forums v. 2.0.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by mumkin

I don't see an easy answer to how a new purchaser, like Logan, avoids being mislead on the interwebs. If he comes back, I know that the other posters here have the skills to help him get back in his van and on the road.

Misled or General Poor Quality Control In Manufacture / Post Sales Support
I'm struggling with this notion of people being misled about their RV purchases. Most of us buy our RVs through dealers who sell many brands and are not dedicated to a particular manufacturer [Problem #1]

Our 1st Class B was German made and retrofitted by Airstream. We loved the design but the unit (house components) were undermined by the retrofitting Airstream performed once the unit came stateside. Most of us are accustom to automotive service technicians that receive training / certification (ASE). I am pretty sure that does not exist for the RV industry [Problem #2]

Creativity RV (Robin) just released her latest YouTube video 'NEW RV: Warranty Nightmare! What I learned after 100+ days in the shop' about her LTV service (dealer cut a hole through her RV without telling her) and the root causes for poor service and solutions. [Problem #3]

The RV Buying Process
When you purchase a brick and mortar home and finance the purchase you see a whole bunch of invested parties (appraisers, lawyers, etc., title companies, etc.) are involved / required to execute the purchase. The transaction is complicated.

Is it reasonable to expect the purchase of an RV (your home) be as simple as purchasing a Toyota Camry? [Problem #4]

Adding an independent appraiser to the process would do a lot to set prices closer to reality and force the RV industry to improve quality and warranties.