RoadTrek / Erwin Hymer Group Criminal Scandal Destroying Lives and Careers Worldwide

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Sorry I was so harsh. My simpathies if you spent $85k on a Simplicity! I didn't know that was even possible. You could have had a Travato plus $15k in your pocket. They have a community and avid following really second to none. Lots of people living and loving in them full time all over the US.

Well, sort of an apology, but not much...

Logan, hang in there and try to focus on the people who are trying to help you, not the second guessers...

[Novadude59]

Originally Posted by Logan

Thank you. This place has been really terrible so far. I just wanted resources and to potentially see if others could relate.

We all already know I’m an idiot for putting all of my money into this thing! I literally led with that.

Logan, I’m sorry you’ve been treated harshly by some members of this forum. Yes, with the benefit of hindsight, you could have done some things differently. But fundamentally you were defrauded. So I think we can cut you a break.

A lot of members of this forum for years have called out Roadtrek (and the RV industry in general) for shoddy products and dishonest sales practices. Their reward has been a lot of grief from Roadtrek and their fans and enablers. They deserved better. So let’s cut them a break as well.

[booster]

I agree, Logan, you have not been treated well here, and would hope you give it all more time as there is a huge wealth of knowledge in the old discussions and the experience of the people here.


As I mentioned earlier, the Roadtrek deception and less than ethical interference in the reviews and ratings sites is inexcusable to me, and your case is a perfect example of why I think that. You carefully did your research to the best of your ability, and that should be plenty good if the system isn't rigged.


I hope all the people that took the Roadtrek lead and over hyped the products and chastised anyone who criticized them, look at this kind of result and understand that they own a part of it. Of course they probably won't as they will likely still deny there was any real issue and blame it on Thor.



What review and rating sites have issued apologies, I think that would be interesting for everyone to know?


I hope all of this will work out for you, and perhaps with some help here your van can be gotten to where it should have been all along.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Logan

BINGO.

I did extensive research. The support of RoadTrek was cult-like...

And oh, it went even further than RoadTrek itself - some of the dealers made the misperceptions much worse. When I did my blog review of the Class B models presented at the 2017 Houston RV show, I was politely suggesting that something smelled very wrong with this whole situation, and that people need to read the fine print and ask a LOT of questions.

But the bottom line is that the dealers were making RoadTrek out to be bullet-proof. I took this pic below inside a RoadTrek Agile at that show - this sign was sitting in the Agile. *THIS IS WHAT BUYERS WERE ACTUALLY SEEING* - how could they POSSIBLY conclude that RoadTrek was anything other than stellar?! This dealer was so confident in RoadTrek's quality that they were willing to voluntarily provide something that was WELL BEYOND RoadTrek's standard warranty!!

And of course, this is now an interesting sidebar question. Those dealers who attached in-house supplemental warranties such as this one... they were assuming that RoadTrek would carry X% of the claims while they would be responsible for a much smaller Y% of whatever RoadTrek did not carry. How does THAT work now that there's no more RoadTrek? Hmmm...

Ladies and gentlemen, the RoadTrek Agile, from my blog post linked above:

[warpig]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Logan - I second InterBlog's sentiments

Your story of lost dreams is a sad tale faced by many novice RV owners. The RV industry has players who often mislead unsuspecting owners. I read about them every day.

Best wishes as you move forward.

- - Mike

Agreed. Your situation sucks. To me, the true culprits are Best Time RV. They sold you a rental unit. Clearly, their "inspection" of the unit after rental returns to the time it was sold to you was non-existent. Though you are caught between a rock and a hard place with EHGNA essentially ending operations, your rig would not be in its current condition without the negligence of Best Time. My frustration would solely be aimed at Best Time.

[warpig]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Sorry I was so harsh. My simpathies if you spent $85k on a Simplicity! I didn't know that was even possible. You could have had a Travato plus $15k in your pocket. They have a community and avid following really second to none. Lots of people living and loving in them full time all over the US.

You are a very knowledgeable member of this board and many FB groups, but man, you are awfully rough with your analysis of his situation and your "apology". I'm no snowflake and can be very critical myself, but my goodness, give the guy a break and offer help instead of ignorance. Sorry to come at a longtime member of the board, but that is my opinion.

[ClassB4Me]

Its All About the Bones

We love buying products in a down market but many of these EHG NA have technologies (Lithium battery systems and underfloor AC units) that may be problematic to service.

We plan to test the market and see if we can get a bare bones Roadtrek at a great price.

Legally, can an RV dealership transact on an EHG NA product if the company is in receivership? Not sure how the Roadtrek model works but can someone explain the dealer inventory process?

[booster]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Its All About the Bones

We love buying products in a down market but many of these EHG NA have technologies (Lithium battery systems and underfloor AC units that may be problematic to service.

We plan to test the market and see if we can get a bare bones Roadtrek at a great price.

Legally, can an RV dealership transact on an EHG NA product if the company is in receivership? Not sure how the Roadtrek model works but can someone explain the dealer inventory process?

The legal documents gave some clues to the dealer floorplans.


It seemed to say that the dealers own the vehicles with secured loans from Wells Fargo on them. Roadtrek comes into the picture if Wells Fargo has to reposses them, and then Roadtrek would be on the hook to buy them from Wells Fargo.



I think that would mean that the dealers can sell them. Of course, the rebates from Roadtrek won't be on them either so price cuts come all out of the dealers pockets.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by booster

I think that would mean that the dealers can sell them. Of course, the rebates from Roadtrek won't be on them either so price cuts come all out of the dealers pockets.

At the right price, I could be persuaded to bite...

Like the Alde Radiant Heat but once again, who would service it?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Like the Alde Radiant Heat but once again, who would service it?

Honestly, I sometimes have trouble convincing myself that owning a B-van is even practical for anybody without direct access to serious mechanical/electrical/plumbing talent. Even the best of them are more-or-less science projects, documentation is often hard to find, and the service network is a nightmare. Even routine use of a properly-functioning rig is frankly beyond the skill of many potential customers.

The situation is kind of like owning a Model-T in 1910. Great fun, potentially life-changing, but you'd better be ready to get your hands greasy.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by avanti

Honestly, I sometimes have trouble convincing myself that owning a B-van is even practical for anybody without direct access to serious mechanical/electrical/plumbing talent. Even the best of them are more-or-less science projects, documentation is often hard to find, and the service network is a nightmare. Even routine use of a properly-functioning rig is frankly beyond the skill of many potential customers.

The situation is kind of like owning a Model-T in 1910. Great fun, potentially life-changing, but you'd better be ready to get your hands greasy.

Agree, but that was well known at the time with the industry not being able to cover it up. Now the rv world .......

[TerrierTude]

Getting back to Logan's issue. I think there was a golden nugget of advice further up the comment stream. If he bought a used unit from a dealer who claimed to have certified it with a complete inspection, that might be where he has options. I would start with demanding that they make this right. Forget Roadtrek. Once they inspected/certified it, they vouched for it.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

At the right price, I could be persuaded to bite...

Like the Alde Radiant Heat but once again, who would service it?

Alde US does a good job of customer support by all accounts. Once you have directions and parts from them maintenance or service should be straightforward...

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by warpig

You are a very knowledgeable member of this board and many FB groups, but man, you are awfully rough with your analysis of his situation and your "apology". I'm no snowflake and can be very critical myself, but my goodness, give the guy a break and offer help instead of ignorance. Sorry to come at a longtime member of the board, but that is my opinion.

Oh come on! Have you ever looked at a Simplicity in person? Even the noobiest noob could see it's a pile of crap from a mile away!

Research is more than looking at a couple of vans at a dealer and going on a moderated facebook page. Even a simple googling shows you lots of info about what crap they are, and there are many Facebook groups, including mine, to get information.

Even a "loaded one" should not cost $85k. There should still be a significant discount, as there is also plenty of evidence there many dealers discount them. I have my own experience getting a 20% discount off Aktiv without any problem, and that product is considerable higher on their food chain.

So while I feel some sympathy for the guy in that he's having build quality issues, some of the blame has to be on the customer who doesn't do adequate research or solicit "real" experience before paying such a sum. Do you really think a search on our forum about Roadtrek issues would have yielded zilch?

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Logan

It’s a mess. Posting here so no one else gets tricked, and in case anyone has any ideas. I’m at a loss for what next steps even look like for a person in my situation...

I have held almost every title one can obtain in IT but when it comes to medical, real estate, and law I seek advice. Always.

Please hear what I say in the way it is intended. One is naive to think someone trying to sell you something is your friend and will be 100% honest. I pay a small annual premium ($800) to gain access to legal advice and recommendations before I sign purchase agreements of a significant amount. Everyone should unless you have a background in consumer protection law.

You seem like an industrious and talented person but you strayed into a space where you were not experienced. For most people a car or RV may be their second largest purchase other than their home. As you stated, this RV was intended to be your home.

I implore everyone (despite how confident you may feel) to consider the worst case scenario before making a large purchase. Class B RVs are not built like mainstream vehicles but the outer looks can be deceptive because the house part of the RV is literally hand constructed / assembled.

After almost getting rolled by a company we always use the following approach:

1) Never sign contracts until we consider the worst case scenario
2) Ask the seller / company are they comfortable with us bringing in an independent inspector (before / after ) the purchase / work (as applicable) has been completed (if they balk - consider it a red flag)
3) We do a 24 hr live-in in new RVs before the deal is closed and final payments are exchanged (we provide refundable monies to remove concerns about damage before the deal is closed)
4) We will not take delivery until PDI issues are addressed. Nope.. Nope.. Nope...

We never argue to the death about the best price but our approach is non-negotiable. There are many many dealers/brands of RVs and as we have all witnessed an industry 'leader' can collapse within a month.

Your time (dealing with a laundry list of problems) is more expensive than any great deal you can get.

You got a bad deal from an unethical business. Don't let it make you bitter. Many wish they had your talents and energy. All the best.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Oh come on! Have you ever looked at a Simplicity in person? Even the noobiest noob could see it's a pile of crap from a mile away!

Research is more than looking at a couple of vans at a dealer and going on a moderated facebook page. Even a simple googling shows you lots of info about what crap they are, and there are many Facebook groups, including mine, to get information.

Even a "loaded one" should not cost $85k. There should still be a significant discount, as there is also plenty of evidence there many dealers discount them. I have my own experience getting a 20% discount off Aktiv without any problem, and that product is considerable higher on their food chain.

So while I feel some sympathy for the guy in that he's having build quality issues, some of the blame has to be on the customer who doesn't do adequate research or solicit "real" experience before paying such a sum. Do you really think a search on our forum about Roadtrek issues would have yielded zilch?

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

I have held almost every title one can obtain in IT but when it comes to medical, real estate, and law I seek advice. Always.

Please hear what I say in the way it is intended. One is naive to think someone trying to sell you something is your friend and will be 100% honest. I pay a small annual premium ($800) to gain access to legal advice and recommendations before I sign purchase agreements of a significant amount. Everyone should unless you have a background in consumer protection law.

You seem like an industrious and talented person but you strayed into a space where you were not experienced. For most people a car or RV may be their second largest purchase other than their home. As you stated, this RV was intended to be your home.

I implore everyone (despite how confident you may feel) to consider the worst case scenario before making a large purchase. Class B RVs are not built like mainstream vehicles but the outer looks can be deceptive because the house part of the RV is literally hand constructed / assembled.

After almost getting rolled by a company we always use the following approach:

1) Never sign contracts until we consider the worst case scenario
2) Ask the seller / company are they comfortable with us bringing in an independent inspector (before / after ) the purchase / work (as applicable) has been completed (if they balk - consider it a red flag)
3) We do a 24 hr live-in in new RVs before the deal is closed and final payments are exchanged (we provide refundable monies to remove concerns about damage before the deal is closed)
4) We will not take delivery until PDI issues are addressed. Nope.. Nope.. Nope...

We never argue to the death about the best price but our approach is non-negotiable. There are many many dealers/brands of RVs and as we have all witnessed an industry 'leader' can collapse within a month.

Your time (dealing with a laundry list of problems) is more expensive than any great deal you can get.

You got a bad deal from an unethical business. Don't let it make you bitter. Many wish they had your talents and energy. All the best.

Not helpful. Basically you are both dwelling on the past, when even the OP has owned up to his original purchase and moved on to what does he do from here.
.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by booster

I agree, Logan, you have not been treated well here, and would hope you give it all more time as there is a huge wealth of knowledge in the old discussions and the experience of the people here.


As I mentioned earlier, the Roadtrek deception and less than ethical interference in the reviews and ratings sites is inexcusable to me, and your case is a perfect example of why I think that. You carefully did your research to the best of your ability, and that should be plenty good if the system isn't rigged.


I hope all the people that took the Roadtrek lead and over hyped the products and chastised anyone who criticized them, look at this kind of result and understand that they own a part of it. Of course they probably won't as they will likely still deny there was any real issue and blame it on Thor.



What review and rating sites have issued apologies, I think that would be interesting for everyone to know?


I hope all of this will work out for you, and perhaps with some help here your van can be gotten to where it should have been all along.

Thank you. I hope so, too.

I’ve seen several of the frequent posters in groups I belong to come out and say they were duped too.

Here is one great example of an RV Review site doing just that, as well: https://rvreviews.net/effective-imme...manufacturers/

Just going off of all of these types of statements and my own experience, it definitely seems like they had conspiracy-level brand narrative protection, and a sea of these charming enablers who are the ones now kicking folks like me out of their “RV Lifestyle” groups for sharing my story and asking for advice.

Really appreciate your kindness.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by warpig

Agreed. Your situation sucks. To me, the true culprits are Best Time RV. They sold you a rental unit. Clearly, their "inspection" of the unit after rental returns to the time it was sold to you was non-existent. Though you are caught between a rock and a hard place with EHGNA essentially ending operations, your rig would not be in its current condition without the negligence of Best Time. My frustration would solely be aimed at Best Time.

Oh yes. I’ve redirected my efforts. They are 100% to blame ultimately.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by warpig

You are a very knowledgeable member of this board and many FB groups, but man, you are awfully rough with your analysis of his situation and your "apology". I'm no snowflake and can be very critical myself, but my goodness, give the guy a break and offer help instead of ignorance. Sorry to come at a longtime member of the board, but that is my opinion.

Thank you. I am already at the end of my rope. I came here because someone told me I could maybe find help, not for people to tell me how dumb I am.

[TerrierTude]

Please stop blaming the victim. Like the gal in the mini-skirt and low-cut blouse walking down a dark alley, none of the former justifies or excuses her getting raped.

I did a lot of Googling and asking around to owners before I bought. This forum never, ever, ever came up on any search and was never recommended/mentioned to me. My impression is that a lot of the truth-telling about Roadtrek was pretty hidden in some of the corners of the internet.

At this point, we should be pointing Logan to possible solutions/repair options, not kicking him in the face and laughing at him for getting rooked. Can even the savviest of you really say that you never got taken in? I think the reason so many of you are smart buyers NOW is that you learned from painful previous mistakes when you were a noob.

Now you are the brain trusts. Pay it forward.