Class B Market Share, Sales and Shipments

[markopolo]

August 2013 Class B Sales stats have been posted on RV Business: http://www.rvbusiness.com/2013/10/ssi-c ... ng-august/

Year-over-year Class B motorhome sales retreated 7.9% in August while gaining 16.5% for the first eight months, according to the latest report from Statistical Surveys Inc.

Through August, Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. was No. 1 in Class B sales, owning a 37.6% market share, followed by Thor Industries Inc. with a 22.6% share. Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. (18.7%) ranked third and Winnebago Industries Inc. was No. 4 (17.4%).

June 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 37.2% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22.7% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 19.7% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 14.9% market share.

July 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 38.2% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22.2% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 19.4% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 16.7% market share.

August 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 37.6% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22.6% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 18.7% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 17.4% market share.

Winnebago has steadily gained market share over the summer. Roadtrek continues to be the sales leader by a large margin.

Even with the almost 8% drop in August sales Class B sales are up 16.5% year to date. My guess is the drop in sales is caused by shipments to dealers (posted previously) being almost flat for the year (only up 2.2% through August). You can't continually sell more units without the shipment numbers increasing.

[markopolo]

September 2013 Class B shipments have been published on RVIA's site. 5.5% increase compared to last September.



Up 2.6% so far this year

Shipments to dealers need to continue to increase to support sales. Sales are up 16.5% through August.

[Mike]

What's really interesting is the increases in the other motorhome classes. Far outstripping class B shipments.
Did gas get really cheap recently? Or are class B motorhomes converters struggling to keep up with the demand? It would be interesting to know how the percentages of consignment stock (unsold deliveries to dealers) compared to pre-ordered units for each major conversion company. Has the rate at which they're being ordered reached the saturation point? If the demand is solid, I guess it doesn't matter, except by demographic area, how many unsold units are being produced. They must be shipping them to areas where dealers are confident enough that they can move stock easily.
The percentages are amazing, but the towables sales, based on unit numbers alone are staggering.
What does it all mean? RV sales (except the slight drop in truck campers) are in pretty good shape overall?
Camping and the outdoors life are alive and well?
Life is good?

[mlts22]

I wonder if part of it is because "B" makers make their money on price, not volume. As per a Youtube video, Pleasure-Way only makes two rigs a day, so just going by 50 weeks a year, they can make 250 "B"s annually.

With the advent of CNC cutters and 3D printers, I can see a company like Thor or Forest River being able to do midrange units, however, I can understand them waiting until how well the Ford Transit fares against the ProMaster before committing to the fiberglass molds, the CAD/CAM machinery, and the assembly process for mass-producing "B"s.

The head scratcher for me is how people go back to the larger "C"s or "A"s now that the economy is slowly climbing up. Gas goes up, goes back down at this time of year, but it definitely stays at a higher price than it was last year. Even travel trailers are fairly costly, MPG-wise, just due to the air resistance on all but the small teardrop or tent models.

[booster]

The B's didn't tank as bad during the downturn IIRC, so that would help explain the difference in uptick now. I think the best comparison would be to the 2007 time frame, before things went south in the economy, instead of in a motorhome .

[Mike]

Originally Posted by mlts22

I wonder if part of it is because "B" makers make their money on price, not volume. As per a Youtube video, Pleasure-Way only makes two rigs a day, so just going by 50 weeks a year, they can make 250 "B"s annually.

With the advent of CNC cutters and 3D printers, I can see a company like Thor or Forest River being able to do midrange units, however, I can understand them waiting until how well the Ford Transit fares against the ProMaster before committing to the fiberglass molds, the CAD/CAM machinery, and the assembly process for mass-producing "B"s.

The head scratcher for me is how people go back to the larger "C"s or "A"s now that the economy is slowly climbing up. Gas goes up, goes back down at this time of year, but it definitely stays at a higher price than it was last year. Even travel trailers are fairly costly, MPG-wise, just due to the air resistance on all but the small teardrop or tent models.

50 (weeks in the year) X 5 (factory work days in a week) X 2 (units per day) = closer to 500 units annually, unless I'm missing something?
Speaking of Promasters, I was eastbound on the 401 yesterday, heading roughly towards Kitchener Waterloo, and was passed by an 18 wheeler flatbed, with one high top, and one low top, Promaster van on it. Both looked fairly short wheel-based. Maybe they were headed for Shirley Ave.? Prototype chassis?

As for the C and A uptick, I think they must be families buying them. Class B seems better suited to 2 people or less on board, where a family of 3 or more probably requires extra space. Or, the economy isn't as bad as the media would have us believe, and money (for some) is no object?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by booster

The B's didn't tank as bad during the downturn IIRC, so that would help explain the difference in uptick now. I think the best comparison would be to the 2007 time frame, before things went south in the economy, instead of in a motorhome .

I think Cs and As probably did as well in the 2007 time frame? No stats to back it up, except what we've seen on the road in the last 5 years. There's no shortage of big rigs out there. By comparison, you have to keep your eyes peeled to spot the class B products.

[markopolo]

There's some shipment and sales info from 2006 / 2007 / 2008 here: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi....php?f=9&t=854

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

There's some shipment and sales info from 2006 / 2007 / 2008 here: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi....php?f=9&t=854

Thanks Marko

Just did a couple of quick computations off of a couple of the charts. Total for the 3 types for 2007 and 4/3 times the through Sept totals for this year (to estimate 2013 totals. Then did a % of now to then.

2013 vs 2007

Class A at 71%

Class C at 90%

Class B at 59%

So it looks like both the A and C motorhomes have come back further than the B's. Surprised me. IIRC as things were tanking, the B's sales held up a bit better, but it appears the others have done much better recently.

I can understand why the C's did well, with the new frugality in the population they have more bang for buck than the others. And as we all have been talking about, the B's are pricing themselves out of the market with their race to luxury over value.

[Mike]

I wonder if the demographic of the baby boomers coupled with the millions of people adversely affected by the 2007-2008 economic downturn has changed the dynamic of the motorhome market place? How many larger motorhome (A and C) sales are the result of two unexpected but plausibly real possibilities.
The first is that baby boomers may be choosing the full time life on the road, to see the world from behind the steering wheel of a luxury vehicle that is a true mobile mansion. Comfort and luxury that is easily affordable for those ex-yuppies that want more than a lawn, garden, and a swimming pool in the back yard. They want to see the planet, but at a more leisurely pace, often with their entire family, and not without the comforts of a slightly upscale home, to boot.
The second more depressing hypothetical is that the larger motorhome is an option for those who may have lost, or simply been unable to find a job near their fixed homes, and were choosing to live in a more "mobile" domicile, to facilitate the possibility of finding employment, wherever that might require them to be. The larger class of RV is a starting point, a base of operations, that can make their nomadic lifestyle tenable, while they do whatever must be done to improve their situations, or to survive.
We see what we believe are both of these types of travelers, all the time, when we're on the road. Full timing for two entirely different reasons. I think it would be difficult for either situation to occur with a class B, but if it did, I'd wager the second hypothetical would be the more likely inhabitant of same.

[mlts22]

The boom in trailers and fifth wheels might explain that. I do know that it is very hard to find a seasonal spot around Austin closer than 30-50 miles.

At renaissance faires, there is an entire group of people who do "the circuit". They go from faire to faire, working odd-jobs that can be found, be it bar-backs (fetching ice and drinks), "push-monkeys" (moving larger supplies), acting roles, cashiers, or other vendors. Because the faire charges little to no rent, it essentially is a place people can live rent-free for 8-12 weeks at a time, and only having to work on weekends. Of course, their RVs are not in the best shape -- a number of rigs have tarps over them.

The ironic thing is that most people doing this are not "white trash". Most are college grads and STEM majors, and even though they might have a master's in chemical engineering, the work they were trained to do is all done overseas, so they do what they can to get by. A lot of them have families, and with the economy so bad, it actually provides them more time to teach their kids, since the work is all done on weekends, so the weekdays end up being spent at one-room "schoolhouses" that consist of a 20x20 enclosed pavilion, chairs, and tables, and the parents switch off teaching duty. One day the Ph. D. in math does his lesson, the second day, the M. A. in English takes her turn.

I like renaissance faires as a break from the IT grind, and being able to camp out and get out of the city is nice. However, for some, it has become a means to survive, especially in this economy, so I can understand travel trailers and fifth wheels being purchased for this task.

Another thing which I wonder about is people buying RVs who are not fulltiming it. It seems that not as many people are buying rigs to take out on trips as before, but maybe that is just what I see.

[Mike]

Trailers, 5th wheels, for sure, but I also think (from what we've seen over 5 years, and over 100,000 miles of travel) that there are a lot of pretty beat up looking class C and A sized motorhomes out there, that appear to be full time abodes for folks who might be just down on their luck, or just need the added mobility, to follow the fairs of which you speak. I was merely trying to put forward a theory (alternate) that might explain the shipment numbers. They are interesting, and amazing, and the huge numbers in those 4 classes (A, C, TT, Fiver) are almost unbelievable.
I would also add that I don't think they're white trash either, and I certainly wasn't implying that. They're just folks who need a mobile home to do what has to be done, in their reality, in their world.

[mlts22]

I definitely agree with your theories. Mainly because what I see selling are rigs that tend to be more for leaving in one spot as opposed to touring.

I was thinking that smaller rigs, like 20-22 foot TTs, short Cs, and even short As like the Winnebago Via (and the upcoming Thor RUVs) would be something that would be popular. However, watching the numbers, it appears that what is selling are the large fifth-wheels, the 30'+ long and longer travel trailers, and the longer Cs. I would have thought differently because of all the bellyaching about fuel prices and how people were almost shocked at the good MPG a Sprinter based rig gets. However, I am guessing people are either buying the longer ones so they can have almost as much space as a New York apartment (the minimum square footage there got lowered to 300 square feet per city regulations), or are buying the trailers to live in for the long haul, so want to be comfortable. I do know that RV salespeople push "bigger is better", so people think they are getting a good deal with a $50,000 35 foot fifth wheel over a $90,000 24' "B", but the "B" is still going to be on the roads long after the fifth wheel has made its one way trip to the town landfill due to delamination, wood rot, and other issues.

Of course, smaller rigs are out of the question for families of 3 and more, but there are a lot of childless couples and single people out there.

This is a head-scratcher. I would expect people to have learned the lesson that the Europeans have learned by now that gas is only going to go up in price, and there are far more places to go to when one doesn't have to call ahead and make sure they have "big rig" spaces available. Plus, as RV storage becomes harder to find, a "B" parks in a driveway. A TT has to go to a storage yard where it becomes easy prey for thieves. Plus, with a "B", if I need storage space, I can add on a hitch mounted cargo rack, or if I need more space, an enclosed cargo trailer. One can't shrink down a 45 foot "A" to park in a single parking space at a strip mall.

I also would guess that people have not seen many "B"s. When I show friends of mine the inside of an Airstream or a Roadtrek, it almost always surprises them how usable the interior is.

[Mike]

Maybe people aren't willing to trade the extra space and comfort of the class C or A, for the ability to park in a mall parking lot space, or travel down or through a cramped roadway, or the fuel economy. I guess their priorities are different than that of many class B owners, to whom those features are much more important. For those who spend a lot of their time on the road in their chosen size of motorhome, and for whatever reason, be it vacation, employment, etc., may just like the extra living space, and greater similarity to a more conventional dwelling. We're still leaning towards the latter situation, having tried and been through the "touring" phase of our travels. We know where we like to go, and those places can all accommodate any size RV, so it's not a condition of sale any more for us.

[mlts22]

I've wondered why class "B" makers don't try to engineer "annex" tents like their European counterparts. In Europe, instead of slide-outs, they have complete annex rooms which are fairly easy to set up. This way, something like a Free Spirit TE, which is more intended to shuttle people than camp with, can be used at campgrounds, providing enough sleeping room for a family with the beds outside, but yet access to a bathroom and kitchen in bare feet. However, Europeans have a far more blurred line between camping and RV-ing, while in the US, they are almost completely separate things.

The advantage of using an "annex" tent is that a "B" could go from a vehicle made for two at most, to being able to sleep a family of 4-6 since the vehicle itself would mainly be just for transportation, while the sleeping space would mainly be in the tent addition.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by mlts22

The advantage of using an "annex" tent is that a "B" could go from a vehicle made for two at most, to being able to sleep a family of 4-6 since the vehicle itself would mainly be just for transportation, while the sleeping space would mainly be in the tent addition.

If you tried to make a B for 4-6 you then have a B that cannot work self-contained and the built-in facilities (mostly tanks) could not easily sustain that many people in a practical manner. At that point a passenger vehicle with separate tent is probably way more practical and much less expensive. About the only thing you would give up is an emergency toilet while out on the highway driving.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

If you tried to make a B for 4-6 you then have a B that cannot work self-contained and the built-in facilities (mostly tanks) could not easily sustain that many people in a practical manner. At that point a passenger vehicle with separate tent is probably way more practical and much less expensive. About the only thing you would give up is an emergency toilet while out on the highway driving.

Agreed. If you want to bring more than 2 people along, and provide accommodations for everyone, buy a bigger rig. A class B wasn't intended to be a bus with a hotel attached. When we travel, we don't want to have to start building the extra rooms before we bed down for the night. We just want to pull over, put it in park, have a meal or a snack, and hit the hay. Without setting foot outside the van, if possible.
No wonder Europe is in the state it's in!!! Camping there sounds like a make work project!!

[bobojay]

Didn't Roadtrek used to have a factory option of a separate but attachable "room" several years ago? I seem to remember someone offering one

[booster]

Originally Posted by bobojay

Didn't Roadtrek used to have a factory option of a separate but attachable "room" several years ago? I seem to remember someone offering one

Yep, they did. It was a screen room that attached to the awning, and when we first looked at Roadtreks we thought we wanted one. Then we talked and read about them and heard from some that had them and changed our minds. PITA to setup, have to disconnect to go anywhere, big and heavy to haul around (about double that of a portable screen room, and expensive. I don't think it has been available for a few years now.

[markopolo]

September 2013 Class B Sales stats have been posted on RV Business: http://www.rvbusiness.com/2013/11/ssi-c ... september/

Year-over-year Class B motorhome sales gained 10% in September and 17.4% for the first nine months, according to the latest report from Statistical Surveys Inc.

Through September, Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. was No. 1 in Class B sales, owning a 37.6% market share, followed by Thor Industries Inc. with a 22.2% share. Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. (18.1%) ranked third, ahead of Winnebago Industries Inc. (17.9%).

July 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 38.2% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22.2% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 19.4% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 16.7% market share.

August 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 37.6% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22.6% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 18.7% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 17.4% market share.

September 2013 breakdown:
Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. 37.6% market share.
Thor Industries Inc. 22.2% market share.
Pleasure-Way Industries Ltd. 18.1% market share.
Winnebago Industries Inc. 17.9% market share.

Winnebago continues to climb the market share ladder. Roadtrek remains solidly in the number 1 spot by a large margin.

The 17% year-to-date increase in Class B sales is fantastic news. More sales will lead to more choices and might allow the manufacturers to hold the line on price increases. It also means the used Class B market will look better in a few years.