Travato Insulation?

Scottbaldassari · 08-18-2015, 10:14 PM

I just saw what I think was the third picture inside a cabinet of a Travato.
It was here: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...rage-3738.html
and it appears like that is a picture of the wheel well, with absolutely no insulation or sound deadening...
I just noticed one earlier inside the sink cabinet and I believe I saw the sheet metal of the outside of the van there also.
Is there no insulation at all in these things?

Jostalli · 08-18-2015, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottbaldassari

I just saw what I think was the third picture inside a cabinet of a Travato.
It was here: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...rage-3738.html
and it appears like that is a picture of the wheel well, with absolutely no insulation or sound deadening...
I just noticed one earlier inside the sink cabinet and I believe I saw the sheet metal of the outside of the van there also.
Is there no insulation at all in these things?

A small amount in the walls is all I would expect. Insulation is where most RV manufacturers fail. Even Advanced RV uses denim in their vans, which is a material I would never use.

Davydd · 08-18-2015, 11:51 PM

This is the recycled Blue Denim fire-retardant unfaced batt insulation that goes into every nook and cranny of an Advanced RV's walls and ceiling. Before it is applied a layer of 1/8" foil-faced rubberized covering called Hushmat is installed throughout walls, ceiling, floor and over the wheel wells. I don't know of any Class B that goes to this extent. Since I have boondocked in 5F weather I know it works. It also works as a very effective sound deadener. I'll stand by it considering I had a career dealing with insulation materials as an architect and certified construction specifier. It is better than fiberglass batts. I'm pretty sure that it is more expensive than fiberglass.

avanti · 08-19-2015, 12:59 AM

I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with the denim stuff, assuming that it is treated for water repellency. It is modestly better than fiberglass for sound deadening. Theoretically, it also has a slightly better R value, but this is most often balanced out by the fact that fiberglass does a better job of expanding into irregular crannies. In practice it is pretty much a wash. The biggest advantage is that it is more pleasant (and perhaps safer) to work with. The biggest disadvantage is added weight. None of this amounts to much, one way or the other. Costs more, but ARV doesn't care about that.

Great West did a very good job on our van of putting insulation in the obvious places (e.g., roof and walls). What they DIDN'T do was to disassemble the door panels and fill the many cavities in the doors. I have chipped away at this and so far managed to find space for a roll and a half of extra installation. You need to be careful to keep the insulation away from latch and lock mechanisms.

wincrasher · 08-19-2015, 01:12 AM

Well, don't look under the dinette seat between the water heater and the outer van wall, or under the trim panels in the over-cab cubby area, or under the bed cabinet against the van wall. I've been in all these areas and there is no insulation to be found. If there is any, it's probably on the backs of the plastic interior panels, if there is any at all. Have no idea what's in the ceiling - hopefully there is some.

Scottbaldassari · 08-19-2015, 02:53 AM

Well... That's a little disheartening.. They don't even try?...score a couple more points for the self build idea..
I don't remember excessive road noise when test driving...
So do any of you Travato owners out there have experience camping in a hot area? -or cold- I guess... Though I don't intend to camp in the cold, and it always seems easier to get warm than it is to stay cool..

wincrasher · 08-19-2015, 02:59 AM

I was just fine is 85-90 degree weather on my Florida trip last year. I ran the air conditioner some nights. It would cycle every 10-15 minutes.

I've had it out in the 40's too. The furnace would cycle similarly. My impressions were that was fairly normal behavior for this kind of RV.

I think road noise is pretty low. The floor gives alot of sound deadening. There is some sound deadening under the cab floor covering by RAM.

Since you can get to alot of these areas, it wouldn't be a really big project to add some insulation. If you were really concerned, then I'd fashion some window coverings - I made some out of reflectix and it makes a big difference.

Scottbaldassari · 08-19-2015, 04:48 PM

Thanks wincrasher.
I have been reading about the multitude of different opinions on insulation in self build class Bs... But now that I come to think of it, I spent a lot of time in an un-insulated (or barely) van in a past life, and don't really remember heating/cooling issues. Granted; It got hot, and it got cold, but a small propane heater (and sometimes a candle) took care of the cold, and opening the windows and a dc fan was all we had to take care of the hot...
I lived... (rather happily as I remember it), so maybe I'm overthinking the insulation thing...

Davydd · 08-19-2015, 06:18 PM

Everyone seems to have different tolerances toward heat and cold. I rarely travel where I need air conditioning and never turn on heat overnight unless below 40F. I don't think my first B was insulated and my second B had fiberglass but not everywhere. The heating and air conditioning worked with them OK when I needed it. Now, I like our well insulated B, not so much for heating and cooling, but exceptional soundproofing compared to my earlier Bs. It makes for a major difference at those Wallydocking overnight stops.

Scottbaldassari · 08-19-2015, 07:39 PM

Yes, so many things to consider.
I do remember cold air leaking through the doors, and a few nights it was so hot I had a fan blowing in my face, but I would say 97% of the time my barely insulated van (and my sportsmobile (however they are insulated) were quite comfortable.
Picking a camping spot that is temperate and quiet might go a long way towards solving the problem..

mlts22 · 08-20-2015, 08:18 AM

I asked something similar on the general forum. I saw that picture of the naked wheel well, and the first thing that came to mind was a need for Hushmat/Dynamat/Fatmat. Maybe spraying the outside of the wheel well with truck bedliner might help with insulation as well.

As for insulation, I'll take -anything- but fiberglass, just because that stuff is so obnoxious to work with, it becomes useless when wet, and mice/rats love to nest in it.

Of all the RV types, class "B"s need insulation the most, and they have the least room for it. Maybe some work will be done on aerogel or high R-value, thin insulation types which can at least help somewhat.

Jostalli · 08-20-2015, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlts22

I asked something similar on the general forum. I saw that picture of the naked wheel well, and the first thing that came to mind was a need for Hushmat/Dynamat/Fatmat. Maybe spraying the outside of the wheel well with truck bedliner might help with insulation as well.

As for insulation, I'll take -anything- but fiberglass, just because that stuff is so obnoxious to work with, it becomes useless when wet, and mice/rats love to nest in it.

Of all the RV types, class "B"s need insulation the most, and they have the least room for it. Maybe some work will be done on aerogel or high R-value, thin insulation types which can at least help somewhat.

The Promaster can fit 2.5" of insulation in the walls and 1" in the ceiling. The Transit and Sprinter have even more space.

eric1514 · 08-20-2015, 04:48 PM

Guys, this is not a four-season motorhome. When the A/C or Furnace fail to keep me comfortable, I'm moving on down the road.

Scottbaldassari · 08-20-2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric1514

Guys, this is not a four-season motorhome. When the A/C or Furnace fail to keep me comfortable, I'm moving on down the road.

Thats what Im thinkin' now..
Insulate where I can, but don't stress about it... (and don't pay allot of money to have more even temperature for just a few nights a year). I actually often questioned the need for a permanent "furnace" type heater in a van... Why not just take along a my buddy heater on the rare times you expect cold nights?

I guess, as always, it boils down to the amount of money/complexity and comfort you expect out of your "campervan"... It's allot like the A/B/C class argument... we see space and luxury and the newest gadgets and we think we WANT it ALL, but do we really NEED it? Do we REALLY even WANT it?

The more I think on it, the simpler I like it.

mlts22 · 08-20-2015, 07:15 PM

Insulation is one of those "bang for the buck" type of things. Even if just some Reflectix placed on the walls and ceiling, that will help tremendously with keeping heat in/out. Vans are definitely not four season RVs (as the cube-square law is definitely against that), but it is nice to be able to camp when the temperature winds up in the 20s at night.

Jostalli · 08-20-2015, 07:49 PM

Even 80 degrees or 50 degrees is uncomfortable inside a van so the more insulation the better. This is part of the reason I chose to do my own conversion. I installed polyiso foam board with Great Stuff for gaps: R-9.6 in the walls, R-6 in the ceiling and closed cell foam: R-3 under the wood floor with sheet vinyl on top. Windows have reflectix. Sure there are areas with no insulation as it is impossible to cover every square inch but it is night and day different than when it was an empty cargo van.

BobB · 08-27-2015, 07:37 PM

FYI - new post of FitRV. Perfect timing for this discussion

"Getting Ready for Winter – Insulating the Travato Doors"

wincrasher · 08-27-2015, 11:52 PM

I see no reason to go thru the amount of work James has done here. Effectively 3 layers of insulation & sound deadening. The van is fairly quiet as it is. Just stuffing some fiberglass, rock-sill or other type insulation in those gaps would have given more than sufficient insulation.

Also, there are other spots that need to be done - under the kitchen cabinet against the outer wall, the wheel well and the outer wall of the under-bed cabinet, the outer wall of the dinette area, and the over cab cubby under the headliner. You can get to all of these to stuff some kind of insulation - dynamating those areas would be tough.

cargovanconversion · 09-01-2015, 03:23 AM

This thread is a good representation on how insulation is done in vans: everybody does it differently.
Some think, they know better and sometimes location plays a role, but in the end a van is difficult to insulate. Either too many windows or too many doors; always too much humidity, never enough space.
Many companies have a bad reputation, because insulation doesn't sell, it's invisible!
So, just do, what you're comfortable with!

Van Williams

Davydd · 09-01-2015, 03:23 PM

I've tested our van in two ways and I am satisfied. First, we camped overnight in 5 deg. F weather and two subsequent days and nights that never got above freezing with a half tank of fresh water. Those were our first three nights. The van was winter worthy. Secondly, we overnighted in Walmarts and Cracker Barrels with no concern about the adjacent highway traffic or semis running their engines all night. That used to be very disturbing in our previous vans.

87 deg. F was the highest temperature we encountered so far. Testing for hot weather is still on the table since the rest of this year will be in eastern Canada and probably not an issue. At 87F with the back doors screen, sliding door screen and MaxxAir fan it is very easy to keep the inside of the van at ambient temperature. However, in the BLM Arizona desert we discovered just a tad too late that if the wind picks up there may be a fine dust you don't even see until such time you wipe your hand over a surface.

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