Travato Battery Project

[Arlo]

Pardon me for injecting what might be a silly question into this very interesting discussion. Does a project like this void the coach warranty, or parts of it, on a new van?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Pardon me for injecting what might be a silly question into this very interesting discussion. Does a project like this void the coach warranty, or parts of it, on a new van?

It is totally against US law to "void the warranty" of ANY product, including vehicles merely by adding aftermarket equipment. The worst that can happen is that a failure ACTUALLY CAUSED by such equipment would be excluded from the warranty, and even then the burden of proof is on the manufacturer. The whole idea of "voiding a warranty" is a total myth.

Google "Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act"

[Davydd]

Wincrasher,

When I went from a one battery B to a two battery B the major difference was mindset comfort. Two batteries will get you through a night probably no matter how much you use your 12v systems in a dry camping situation. With one battery we were always cognizant in how we were using our electricity right down to excessively turning off lights at every opportunity yet still got down to the low battery chirping sound on occasion. The other saving grace is with a 3-way fridge and running on 12v while driving you won't get ambushed if you stop for lunch and accidentally leave it on 12v though I understand now most are installing auto switchover to propane when stopped. The one battery limit in the Pleasure-way Plateau back in 2011 was the major reason I did not consider them again though I loved their quality. Ingenuity and smart camping always gives you a work around but sometimes you get caught in campgrounds where generators are not allowed and in a non-campground dry camping situation you sometimes don't want to call attention to yourself with a running generator. Walmart next to the semis is OK but at a Cracker Barrel you might sheepishly grin when people stare at you. And never on a residential street or driveway unless you don't care if the neighbors make your host a social pariah.

The second alternator with an adequate size inverter could give you access to 120v appliances. I would hope your cab air conditioner would be enough while driving for you. Otherwise you could brew coffee or heat something up in a microwave with the engine running. We do that while on the road but not all that much with our inverter. It is just nice to know we can do it. Since we need to stop anyway to flex the joints it is more pleasant just to stop at a Starbucks or even a McDonalds. But with so little battery reserve it might be expensive just to fast charge your batteries with a second alternator especially if you intend to drive any length of time and distance during the day enough to bulk charge. To deep charge the final 20% I'll let the experts Marko and Booster expound as I don't know. If you already have a generator a second alternator would make no sense.

I have already gone on and on about lithium ion batteries only making sense when you design a battery capacity and system that would be impossible or nearly impossible to achieve with AGMs in your B and enough to change your dry camping habits. I think that is 400ah of lithium ion batteries on up with my habits and desires. Usage and habits could vary. I managed to dry camp 5 straight nights in Glacier NP on two lead-acid batteries (210ah) with the only generator use in making a pot of morning coffee which was an obvious double purpose. I also spent 13 of 14 nights in California with our one battery P-W dry camping. It wasn't easy. So there are varying options. I just wanted better options.

Bottom line is I think your second AGM battery makes sense. Have you asked Winnebago why that is not an option?

[wincrasher]

Yes, I agree. With all the LED in the new coach, as well as the TV and stereo, there is not really much draw over 2 days. It's running the furnace blower that would be an issue. Overnite is OK, but 2 days is iffy. So any extra battery would certainly reduce "range anxiety".

The extra alternator is an intriguing idea, but I'm unsure of the cooling required for it. Looks like those that have put these in are going with a fairly conservative approach and putting in robust cooling. The kit I've seen for adding an alternator doesn't have any of that.

So I'm not sure I'm willing to invest in a project like that for the modest benefit.

I would agree with you that it appears 400 ah is a sweet spot for capacity. That's what I have in my Oliver and with the solar, it's pretty much off grid except if you need air conditioning.

[Davydd]

The Advanced RV has a direct air ducted cooling method built in for their second alternator. The brackets for a second alternator come factory direct from Mercedes Benz when you order the van. The alternator is third party. The cooling is an Advanced RV design. And then there is that big 4/0 AWG copper wire (0.53" dia.) that goes from alternator to batteries the length of the van to slam all the current produced. They also have the high idle option and autogen without need of a key in the ignition. That seems to me to be more complex and a lot instead of an Onan generator. Having both second alternator and generator would not make sense to me with all this. I believe in now over 30 Advanced RVs in production only one of their early ones ever had propane or a generator.

I would be curious to know what Roadtrek does with the Zion for a second alternator for the coach.

[wincrasher]

Anyone have any experience with one of these?

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/c...ny_hoCPLHw_wcB

It looks like it may solve my problem. Is it an easy DIY install?

http://www.cumminsonan.com/autostart/faq/

http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/pdf/r...Wmanual-en.pdf

Looks easy!

[youtube:hqjwjx17]b-ha-ZUnnsI[/youtube:hqjwjx17]

[booster]

Very interesting. It sure would be nice, so you wouldn't need to leave the genny running all the time when not needed. It looks likes you probably "arm" it in auto when you leave. They mention a motion sensor so it won't start in an enclosed space. It must disable the "arming" as soon as the van moves. I wonder if the factory vans with the auto gen start do that? Certainly worth a look for you, I would think.

[wincrasher]

It looks plug and play. Solves my problem of starting from the driver's seat. But the other features are intriguing - auto start on high temp and low battery. Also the lockout for "quiet times" so you aren't a violator.

I think those with pets they want to leave in their van would like this device.

[wincrasher]

Well, I ordered my battery - should have it Friday. I ordered another NAPA Commercial grade AGM battery identical to the one I already have.

I bought some galvanized angle material, flat bar and other pieces and parts at Lowe's today. Need to get the correct metal cutting blade for my chop saw and I think I'll be good to go.

The existing bracket holding the battery is way over designed and held in with several large bolts. I think there is enough strength there to hold another battery, so I'm just going to scab onto that bracket with this material and secure another battery. Have also have heavy battery cable - it's either 0 or 2 gauge and I think will be adequate to connect the batteries.

I will have to build some ramps out of 2 x 12 to give me some maneuvering room under the van. I need to have these anyways to service the generator.

[wincrasher]

Well, the project has begun!

Step one was to build some ramps to give me some working room. I got some 2 x 10"s and had Lowes cut them up for me. 5', 3' & 2' lengths. Nailed together. Works great, van rolled right up on them. With a couple strips of old rubber floor mat to hold them in place.





Almost 5" of extra clearance


I also got started on removing the battery


It's tight - you can see the limited clearance above the battery:


The battery is a NAPA Commercial AGM part number 9831DT


I got the battery out, all my metal parts cut and wiring connected. I think I spent more time changing out the wood blade for a metal cutting one on my chop saw. It really is an effective blade - kinda works like a big grinder. I was also able to sand down any burrs from the cutting with the edge of the blade.

Tomorrow the battery gets picked up and I bolt it all back together. One thing I learned - you need to use a floor jack to get the battery back in position. Even with the extra room, it's near impossible to lift a 69 lb battery back up into the frame. Just no room for leverage.

[markopolo]

Two batteries in a 59G is a nice upgrade

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Well, the project has begun!

Step one was to build some ramps to give me some working room. I got some 2 x 10"s and had Lowes cut them up for me. 5', 3' & 2' lengths. Nailed together. Works great, van rolled right up on them.

I did the same thing in preparation for an upcoming plumbing project.

If you don't already have one, I recommend getting a mechanic's creeper. Makes it almost fun.

[wincrasher]

Well, I got my 2nd battery installed. It was really tough getting it to fit in there. The space is tight up against the anti-sway bar.

I ended up having a 1/2" gap between the battery and the bar. I think that is enough. I went on a rather long and bumpy ride and it appears that everything is in there solid and nothing is moving around.


The only way to get the battery in this way is to lift and support it with a floor jack. Then you can bolt the frame pieces in place (one on each side of the existing frame, and one across the front). Then you can let the jack down and install the support strap. There really is no way for it to come out unless you disassemble the metal parts. I used a heavy rubber strap with metal hooks to use as a securing strap. Here you can also see a metal bar I used on the front of the frame to secure that part of the frame. I also covered all my battery terminals with protective tape so there is no chance metal comes in contact with it.


There was one bolt nearby for the gray tank pump assembly I removed and then replaced when I had this strap in place.
You can also see some of my wiring in the above pic. Believe it's 2 guage. It's a bit heavier than the existing wiring. I did match Winnebago's color coding - red for pos and black for neg.

While I was under there, I also zip-tied the connector for my portable solar panel to the bottom of the van near the rear fender. It has that rubber weather cover, so I think it will be alright there.


The project came in at my expected budget. Nearly $300 for the battery and $100 for the materials, a new blade for my chop saw and a new vice to bend metal. So in that regard, I'm happy with how it went. It was just more work than I expected. Now I have 210 amp hours of total house capacity, plus the engine battery.

[booster]

Very nice, you will be glad to have the extra power.

It is probably an illusion, but how much road clearance is there to the genny and the batteries?

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by booster

Very nice, you will be glad to have the extra power.

It is probably an illusion, but how much road clearance is there to the genny and the batteries?

The generator is 6" off the ground. The batteries are around 9".

[stanw909]

Great job.

[wincrasher]

[youtube:1bl5cimg]i5k3nrgM0y8[/youtube:1bl5cimg]

[stanw909]

Okay , now that's just brilliant.

[rclemins]

I agree. Nice job! Question, why does Winnebago not sell every 59g model just as wincrasher has modified it? The advantages of the 2'nd battery are obvious. Is this just to stay below a certain price point? Bravo Wincrasher!

[wincrasher]

I think they would argue that one battery is enough in the 59G. They put a second one in the 59K because of the 12v compressor fridge.. On that van, they put the second battery on the opposite side of the coach, not next to each other.


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