SuperSprings / SumoSprings

[markopolo]

Just looking for comments about the usefulness / suitability etc. of installing SuperSprings / SumoSprings or similar products on the rear of my van.

PDF: INS_SSR-205-54.pdf

ssr-205-47.JPG

ssr-205-54.JPG

While doing some work under the van, I noticed that the rear sway bar has been making contact with the under-mounted spare tire. It looks like there's 1" or 1 1/2" overlap or I should say underlap - the sway bar is under the edge of the the spare.

Sway bar: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...-bar-2723.html

I don't know how long it has been like this but it could be because of the heavy cargo box on the rear: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...html#post27929

The last trip was on some very rough roads.

I've tried moving the spare but that didn't help as there's no space to shift it. It basically wants to be where it is.

The van is 19 years old so there's a limit on what I want to spend on it.

Would blocks be a better solution? Air bags? Helper springs?

[wincrasher]

These are no different than the Timbrens I've installed on my van. They are great at reducing sagging, excessive lean and jouncing. Highly recommended.

[booster]

Those, I think, are very similar to the Timbren products, which are similar to overload bumps on the newer Chevies in front, and on Promasters in the rear. They will pick up extra load and hold the rear higher, and will certainly also increase spring rate and probably the progressiveness of the rear suspension.

Personally, I have never really cared for them all that much, mostly do to the "you get what they are" aspect on no adjustability. The extra progression many of them have is also something I try to stay away from. Others like them very much and have no issues with them, so it is a personal choice thing.

I prefer the airbags as they don't increase the progression much at all, and they are adjustable in capacity and indirectly for height. Nice if you have varying loads on the van, such as with or without the cargo box and bikes way out the back.

All of the options you listed will work to raise the rear by whatever amount they are designed for.

[markopolo]

I crawled under and took a closer look. The spring pack is basically flat - like Photog's here: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...html#post10141

Question: Should I replace/repair/add-a-leaf etc. or would air bags be enough?

[booster]

Ours were essentially flat, also. They get that way about the time they hit the overload leaf on the later Chevies, can't say about yours, but sounds similar.

The bags we have in it now have a 5000# capacity at 100 psi of air. We never run over 40-45 psi, often only 35#, and that would easily take us maybe 1/8" off the overload, so the bags and the non overload leafs were handling all the load. We have now even dearched the overload leafs to give about 1/4"+ if clearance to the other springs, so even on most bumps they don't hit and are there basically in case a bag fails.

Based on what we have seen, you should be fine with just the bags, I think.

[wincrasher]

I've had airbags as well as Timbrens. Under load, I thought the airbags felt like I was riding on marshmellows. The suspension felt soft, wallowy and without alot of control on rough surfaces.

I've had the Timbrens on my Silverado, a Suburban and now my Promaster. On the Silverado, mostly to handle the extra load of a 5th wheel trailer. On the Suburban, for the load from a tag-along trailer. In all cases under load, the ride was smooth and there was always a feeling of firmness and control. Additionally, bags will not give you any control/reduction of jounce, which is a big problem with these vans.

I also had a bag blow out on a motorcoach and that was not fun. Neither was chasing the leaks and failed compressors.

[markopolo]

Thanks for all the help & info Wincrasher & Booster.

I'll probably go with air lift bags. I took some measurements and jounce bumpers alone would be compressed all the time with no option to increase the lift.

Air lift has a model with internal jounce bumpers which will be helpful if a leak developed.

with jounce bumper.jpg

I'll save a bit with a DIY installation and skipping a built in compressor. I had Firestones on the Bigfoot C with no built-in compressor so I'm used to that.

[peteco]

That internal jounce bumper looks like a good idea on the Airlifts. I have the Firestones and am happy with them, but I always wondered what would happen if one of them failed. I do not have them tee'd together. Should I do that?

[booster]

Originally Posted by peteco

That internal jounce bumper looks like a good idea on the Airlifts. I have the Firestones and am happy with them, but I always wondered what would happen if one of them failed. I do not have them tee'd together. Should I do that?

I prefer to have the separated, so I can compensate for uneven loading or weight distribution. There is also a bit of crossflow in corners that let the vehicle lean a little bit more if they are connected.

Before I put our Airlifts in, I pushed them flat on the bench, and they internally bottomed out before the bellows were all the way down, like they had some sort of stops in them. It was a hard stop, however, not softer like a typical bump stop. When I rearched the overload springs, I also put the van on the wheels, let all the air out of the bags and they were just about bottomed out when the van settled on the moved down overloads.

[markopolo]

On to the front end

Looks like I have a few options ('97-'02 GMC Savana/Chevy Express 3500):

Tuftruck TTC-1616, stock height 4800 lb load rating.
Tuftruck TTC-1615, stock height 3700 lb load rating.

http://tuftruck.com/products/chevroletgm/TTC-1616.html

Also Moog, Dayton, Rockwell, ACDelco .... but not so easy to get info.

Superspring Supercoils looks to be the only one that specs increased ride height over OEM.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61pFGf+xb8S.pdf

The SSC-13 model in that PDF shows 4800lb rating and 1 3/4" increase over stock.

The SSC-12 model in that PDF shows 3700lb rating and 1 1/4" increase over stock.

Any opinions on Supercoils? Would I be over doing it with 4800lb load rated coils? Last visit to the scales showed 4,040 lbs front.

[booster]

Front springs are really hard to tell how they will turn out. All the discussions of how some folks are very happy and others unhappy with the same springs sure pointed that out.

If you still have the factory door sticker that gave the OEM max front axle load, that might be a place to start. We have the 5000# original, not around any more, standard length springs. They gave a 2" lift and we like the ride. Our door sticker calls out 4300# max front for comparison purposes, and we run fairly close at max load. Usually, 4100-4250#.

[markopolo]

Thanks Booster. My sticker also shows 4300 front axle load.

So (to confirm) with stock height 5000lb rated Tuftruck springs your front came up 2".

Then I should get a bit of lift out of the stock height 4800lb Tuftruck coil springs for my van. I think it's worth a try. The floor of the van is level right now so lifting the rear off the overload springs will change that.

It's hitting the bump stop often now and the old springs are worn out.

bump stop.JPG

It's going to be really interesting to see the results after these changes.

I'd like to DIY this but it's looking like $200 or so for an adequate spring compressor. From older posts, I think you replaced your springs without needing a compressor.

[booster]

Close to correct. My springs were replaced without a spring compressor, but I didn't do it. I had the truck service place that found the springs for me do it, as they spent a bunch of effort to get the springs and deserved the business. I did get to watch it done, and he used no compressor, and put them in from the outside by disconnecting the lower ball joint. I don't recall how much the labor was, but it wasn't all that much, and they also aligned it while it was on the same rack, so worked out well for me, as the big springs with no compressor scared me a bunch. The tech said he had done dozens of Chevy front springs, so it was cake for him to do without fear.

[peteco]

I replaced mine without a spring compressor. I have a writeup I can send if you like. But if I had to do it again I would pay someone as it is very dangerous.

[markopolo]

Thanks peteco. I'm going to use a compressor.

[markopolo]

Just a quick update on the rear lift.

I ended up buying the Air Lift air springs with the internal jounce bumper.

with jounce bumper.jpg

The installation was straightforward but took me way longer than the 2 hours estimated in the instructions. In total I probably spent a full day on it from putting the van up on stands to getting it off the stands. I did run the hose inside of a protective loom and used Booster's idea of making an additional heat shield.

I mounted the two fill valves next to each other on the drivers side rear bumper underside. There was just enough hose to do that so measure before you cut.

It was initially leaking air on one side but I found that I had not fully inserted the hose.

There is around 3 1/8" lift at max PSI.

[AZ ADVenturist]

I have a set of "SuperSprings" supposedly for '96-2010 Chev G-3500 Express van. Didn't work for my 'o2 Trek, or maybe the amateur/Auto shop in Prescott didn't know what they were doing. So, they are for SALE. Cost me $426 & un-returnable. Maybe someone smarter or more $$ to experiment can make 'em work for their Chevrolet van. $100 in Prescott, Az. I'll even deliver to Phoenix or flagstaff if I can carry on motorcycle. They are heavy. Shipping would be a killer.
Worth a try?
Ric.

[markopolo]

Are they Supersprings Supercoils SSC-13? They'd probably would not give much of a lift to an always fully loaded Class B van. I posted some info for 1997 to 2002 vans here: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...ings-4136.html

19 year old OEM coils: 0.9375" diameter bar, 15.25" free height (taken off my van)

Supersprings Supercoils SSC-13: 1.000" diameter bar, 15.30" free height.

They'd probably be great for a van that carries a variety of loads; heavy one trip, light the next etc..

[AZ ADVenturist]

Thnx for reply Marko. I don't really expect much interest here, but couldn't resist posting on this thread. I spent a lot of time reading Photog's & Booster info on their lifts back in '12. Spent quite a bit of money too.
Had high hopes, but didn't work out. No fault to them or this forum. My own fault & the guy at the shop who said he could do it, but kept chasing dead ends. We did drive it to Alaska & back afterwards. Love the whole "B" & RoadTrek thing so sold the '02 a year ago. Replaced with a '2013. Love'n that too & might even start the lift project all over again. I'm that kind'a guy.
Don't know what SS no. they are. But wonder if I can use 'em on the '13 Chev. Ha Ha! ?
Thanks again for all you do on this Forum & the class B life style.
Ric.

[skodr]

I recently came across vanupgrades.com. They have some interesting supension upgrades. You might want to take a look.