Solar power set up ideas!

[monaw81]

Hello! Newbie here.
I have a 95 dodge coachmen Saratoga for a few months now. Still putting great effort into learning all I can about it yet so far so good, love this van.
Anyways.
Solar power. Who currently has a solar power system on their class b?
Did you install it yourself? Recommendations for panel size, DIY, other ideas? I have googled and read quite a bit but still have managed to feel quite lost in the world of solar energy.
I leave in a few months to drive the Americas, average boondocking time would be 3-4 days. Estimated needing power to run the following, interior lights, charge a laptop, a few other small items, maybe a portable DVD player, the propane fridge, water pump. I would like to avoid using a generator and instead be able to rely on solar power to recharge the house battery or to power an inverter.
Thanks in advance!

[eric1514]

Spend your money on LED lights and a good voltmeter instead. Learn how to conserve electricity. Charge your laptop when your on the road. You should easily go 3-4 days (without running a furnace) on a good, new and well maintained battery. Better yet, get two. You don't need solar to do what you're going to do, especially since you have a propane fridge. Just my opinion.

Eric

[markopolo]

Here's an old topic from 8 years ago on this forum that should be of interest to you: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...panel-683.html

I read through it again and the info still looks to be current and useful. (prices have come down since then)

Eric makes a good point to focus on conservation efforts. You might boondock in a nice shaded area and not get anything near what you expect out of your panel(s).

Solar does not have to cost a lot. Seriously.
Ads in my area quote $1.50 per watt for panels. Add a $30 controller, some wiring and DIY mounts and DIY labor and you could have an effective setup for $250 to $350. It won't be the best but it would be good enough.

Solar on your rig might actually give your batteries a chance to get fully charged once in a while. In many cases RV batteries never get fully charged off the vehicle alternator alone because of voltage drop caused by the setup and components involved. Older charger/converter units don't fully charge batteries either. Modest solar combined with those other charging sources could actually get the batteries fully charged periodically.

Here's good DIY link: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...trek-2302.html

[g1g]

I have the same rig 95 Saratoga. Had it for about 5 years now but due to work I have not taken to much of an extended vacation particularly out west where I would love to boondock. I have not had a problem with battery power when boondocking for a couple days. But I have run the genny when running the microwave or AC if needed. Before I retire I do have a solar panel that I will take along or make a portable mounting system. I'm thinking of adding a second battery when I retire and go west possibly boondocking for a longer period

[booster]

Marko covered it well, especially in relation to a basic system. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that a very basic system is probably better than many midrange systems. The full time non staged systems of the simple units can be used very effectively with manual control, allowing more complete charging without overcharging. More complex systems can easily under or over charge, as the control is not matched to your system. You have to go up to higher end controllers to be fully automatic.

3-4 days on one battery would be doable on one 100ah battery if it is sunny, but even with conservation as mentioned, it would be pretty tight if it was cloudy. You would have the advantage of charging stuff during good sun periods to spread out use.

If you want to go genny free and still have microwave, you may want to look at a basic engine generator setup, using a bigger alternator and wiring and a cutoff switch. IMO, the money spent there will give you the best increase in capability.

An updated shore charger might also be needed if it hasn't already been done.

With a battery monitor, 200 watts of solar and a battery in the 185 ah range (size that Gerry has in his Zion, with big alternator (200 amps) to run 1500 watt inverter and do quick recovery if needed should make you genny free and very usable.

If you have a furnace, it may well turn out to be your biggest power use, if you upgrade all the other stuff.

[tbirdman]

First thing is remember is you get a 30% tax credit until the end of 2016. This includes things such as inverters, charge controllers, batteries. I put togetehr a 200W system to match up to my 2 100AH+ batteries. I also upgraded my shore power converter to a 3 stage. The price of 200W with connector a good MPPT controller was ~$850. I'm hiring some one to do the install which will probably cost $400 or less. At my age I don't need to be climbing on roofs of vehicles. Don't overlook the use of undersized wires. I'm running two panels in parallel to 8 AWG wire. You want to minimize losses. The MC4 connectors appear to be heavy duty. You need to bythe MC4 tools to disconnect them. I also will run a line out to the rear of the coach for a possible portable panel. MPPT controller also has an output to charge the starting battery. I'm debating on that, but may do that since I have sat radio on the dash radio. Will also be modify the lights to LEDs. So I figure the addition of 200W of solar is ~$900 after tax credits plus I get 30% tax credit for the 300W inverter and 2 new batteries. I got most of my solar stuff from AMsolar.

The reason you want a MPPT controller is efficiency. A PWM will not use anything over 14.6V. They dissipate the extra voltage as heat and pass the 14.6V to the batteries. So your 100W panel becomes a 80W panel. For example the one I bought is 18V @ 5.55A. The voltage between 18V and 14.6V is wasted. With MPPT controllers, they will pass on 14.6V to the batteries at the same time boosting the current thereby using all the power that the solar panels are providing. I'm hoping that with reasonable sunny weather, I'll never have to run a genny except for MW and AC. With the limited space on these RVs, it makes sense to have an efficient MPPT controller.

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

First thing is remember is you get a 30% tax credit until the end of 2016. This includes things such as inverters, charge controllers, batteries. I put togetehr a 200W system to match up to my 2 100AH+ batteries. I also upgraded my shore power converter to a 3 stage. The price of 200W with connector a good MPPT controller was ~$850. I'm hiring some one to do the install which will probably cost $400 or less. At my age I don't need to be climbing on roofs of vehicles. Don't overlook the use of undersized wires. I'm running two panels in parallel to 8 AWG wire. You want to minimize losses. The MC4 connectors appear to be heavy duty. You need to bythe MC4 tools to disconnect them. I also will run a line out to the rear of the coach for a possible portable panel. MPPT controller also has an output to charge the starting battery. I'm debating on that, but may do that since I have sat radio on the dash radio. Will also be modify the lights to LEDs. So I figure the addition of 200W of solar is ~$900 after tax credits plus I get 30% tax credit for the 300W inverter and 2 new batteries. I got most of my solar stuff from AMsolar.

The reason you want a MPPT controller is efficiency. A PWM will not use anything over 14.6V. They dissipate the extra voltage as heat and pass the 14.6V to the batteries. So your 100W panel becomes a 80W panel. For example the one I bought is 18V @ 5.55A. The voltage between 18V and 14.6V is wasted. With MPPT controllers, they will pass on 14.6V to the batteries at the same time boosting the current thereby using all the power that the solar panels are providing. I'm hoping that with reasonable sunny weather, I'll never have to run a genny except for MW and AC. With the limited space on these RVs, it makes sense to have an efficient MPPT controller.

That's what I do without solar. Frankly, and I'm not singling you out, I think that unless you have a compressor fridge and like to park in the sun, solar power is oversold.

Eric

[Scottbaldassari]

BOOSTER: ..."I am quickly coming to the conclusion that a very basic system is probably better than many midrange systems..."

Originally Posted by eric1514

... I think that unless you have a compressor fridge and like to park in the sun, solar power is oversold.

Eric

With you there. I'm thinking a minimal low cost system supplement batteries would be the most beneficial/economical in my situation also. "Noisy, stinky and unreliable" seem to be the biggest complaints against generator usage with most folks, but with the new quite inverter generators this argument is pretty much gone. Unlimited Silent power from the sun would be preferable of course, but at what cost? I lived in a solar powered home for 20 years, It was supplemented and backed up with a Honda Generator that worked flawlessly and still runs perfectly today.

Onan is pushing their luck with their hold on the RV market. Seems like someone like Honda, Yamaha, or ? could step in and build a replacement generator that fits in the same hole these noisy old unreliable generators are in, and have an instant market. I have seen countless used RV's for sale that list "generator removed", "generator doesn't work" or "generator needs work". I have seen several that have removed the Onan, and use the space for storage along WITH a small efficient generator.

I know solar is all the rage in RV's these days, and there are probably several that will chastise me; But unless you
Are a full timer,
Determined to do allot of boondocking,
Have allot of $ and roof space,
Stay in really sunny treeless locations,
With very limited air conditioning and power needs,
And really determined to be totally green...
complete reliance on Solar power is still probably not the total answer.

[tbirdman]

Originally Posted by eric1514

That's what I do without solar. Frankly, and I'm not singling you out, I think that unless you have a compressor fridge and like to park in the sun, solar power is oversold.

Eric

For $900 it's a fairly low cost add on. Worse case it's a selling feature when I go to sell the RV.

[B Eventually]

Honda and Yamaha have had years to enter the RV market, so I suspect they've decided it's not worth their time. I think a company like Generac that mostly specializes on power systems is more likely develop a drop-in Onan replacement.

The Fit RV recently checked out Generac's new portable generator similar to Honda's eu2000i and they were very impressed. Generac reps told them they were working on a bigger one for RV installations, so we may have more options soon. I wonder if they'll be limited to gas?

We lived off of a 2000 watt honda for the first six months in our house. When we finally got DSL around month five, I kept that generator running 24/7 for the following two months. They're real workhorses, efficient too.

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

For $900 it's a fairly low cost add on. Worse case it's a selling feature when I go to sell the RV.

I'm not one to say never and someday I might do some solar, but if I'm "touring", the alternator does a fine job of charging the battery and when I'm "camping" I look for the shadiest spot I can find. I lived in AZ for 13 years. I've had enough sun.

[booster]

Originally Posted by eric1514

That's what I do without solar. Frankly, and I'm not singling you out, I think that unless you have a compressor fridge and like to park in the sun, solar power is oversold. Eric

I do agree that solar is oversold. Just look at all the advertising that touts "unlimited boondocking", for a system that could barely keep up at the equator in full sun.

What does need to be understood is that solar is best looked at as just a part of a system that needs to work as a system. The solar will do it's part when it can, batteries can fill the gaps in the solar, and an engine generator can do last resort charging, or big recoveries of the batteries while driving.

We find the solar to be at it's best when we are shorty hopping from trail to trail during the day, when sun is easy to park in. It will easily cover the less output we get from a shady campsite the rest of the time.

We are sitting in Zion right now, in asite that gets sun probably 70% of the day, so we will recover about two days worth of power per day if sunny. The next two days are going to be rainy, so we will fall behind, running on batteries. The next three days should be sunnier, so we will catch up again with the solar. I we don't, and run low, we will idle or drive, but I doubt we will have to. If we want to use the micro, we will idle for 5 minutes while we do it to save batteries, and we idle very quiet and smell free compared to a genny. It is hot and the compressor frig will use considerably more power than usual, plus it is facing south.

[JKatfish]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

For $900 it's a fairly low cost add on. Worse case it's a selling feature when I go to sell the RV.

I'm with you there. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. The cost for extra peace of mind and being functional is worth it IMO. It is a great selling feature for someone who doesn't want to go through with install.

[wincrasher]

On my new rig, I thought it would be foolish to pass up the solar option. For $600 you get a 100w panel, combiner box, all the wiring and controller. Includes a port on the side of the van for a portable panel. You can expand this system with two additional panels on the roof if you desire.

It may not be the greatest system, but it's pretty good for $600. The important thing being that all the wiring is done. At least you have the option to add more solar if you think you need it. If not, well, you haven't wasted alot of $.

For comparison, the Pleasureway Lexor price sheet has a 100watt panel for $1900. The system doesn't appear to be expandable, has no portable panel port, nor does it even appear to be compatible with Lithium batteries, which is now stock in that van.

[avanti]

Solar is is highly valuable in one and only one situation. That is if you store your vehicle (a) outdoors; and (b) without being plugged in. If you meet both of these criteria, then you would be well-advised to have at least modest solar. Assuming a good controller, it will keep your batteries fully charged and thus greatly increase their lifetime. Of course, it doesn't take much of a solar setup to do this, so this is not an endorsement of spending a lot on huge solar systems. I agree that the latter makes little sense for most people.

[Davydd]

I am in full sunlight right now on the coast of Newfoundland. About all my 420 watts of solar are doing is barely keeping up with the compressor fridge. The sun is too low at this latitude in the fall. I could say the same last February in the Arizona desert. In the summer I like to seek shelter in the north woods. I suppose if you are a fool camping in the Arizona desert in July you might get some benefit.

Also as you increase your battery power solar becomes less a factor. Also as you increase your battery power you are better off with a second alternator than an Onan type generator especially if you are in a non electrical hookup campground next to a tent camper as I am now.

If you drive most days a Class B people do then that second alternator is going to top your batteries if going out to dinner, making a beer run or just visiting a park feature when camped on consequitive days.

In effect with a B with limited solar real estate and flat on a roof it is over sold. Where you going to store a portable unit you can aim at the sun? Is giving up the space and the finagling worth. Woul you leave it at your camp site for a short trip? I will grant solar on a B might be useful to trickle charge a battery

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I am in full sunlight right now on the coast of Newfoundland. About all my 420 watts of solar are doing is barely keeping up with the compressor fridge. The sun is too low at this latitude in the fall. I could say the same last February in the Arizona desert. In the summer I like to seek shelter in the north woods. I suppose if you are a fool camping in the Arizona desert in July you might get some benefit.

Also as you increase your battery power solar becomes less a factor. Also as you increase your battery power you are better off with a second alternator than an Onan type generator especially if you are in a non electrical hookup campground next to a tent camper as I am now.

If you drive most days a Class B people do then that second alternator is going to top your batteries if going out to dinner, making a beer run or just visiting a park feature when camped on consequitive days.

In effect with a B with limited solar real estate and flat on a roof it is over sold. Where you going to store a portable unit you can aim at the sun? Is giving up the space and the finagling worth. Woul you leave it at your camp site for a short trip? I will grant solar on a B might be useful to trickle charge a battery

That recovery sounds low, even for where you are. We are a couple of days past mid North Dakota with sun that looked really low, and we were recovery 25AH before noon from 300 watts.

Everyone who is counting on the van engine charging to take care of everything please remember that unless you have lithium batteries, you need to add about 2 hours of charge time to the charge time based on just replacing the AH. This is an area that I think is grossly overlooked by most folks, and if you don't get that extra time you start to get "capacity walkdown". Solar finishes off the charging very accurately if you have a controller that transitions based on return amps. It can be doing the finiushing, which is low amps, while you are eating lunch or hiking. Davydd's example of a beer run will not recharge you to full unless the liquor store is 100 miles away

Another point is that unless you have a monitor checking the engine charging, you are almost guaranteed to under or over charge your batteries while driving. The smart regulators will help, but nearly all I have seen are timer based and won't be all that accurate in charging.

As I said earlier, solar is part of a whole system, and not a cure all for other shortcomings.

[wincrasher]

Ordered my 2 extra panels for the new van. Under optimal, I'll have 260 watts and 14.8 amps.

[tbirdman]

I'll just move the RV into the sun until noon and then move it back in the shade after that

[Boxster1971]

I stumbled on this article from Wired today.
What Happens When a Tech Writer Decides to Live in a Van | WIRED