Shorai Lithium Iron batteries

[eastbay]

Hello, this post has become less urgent since they seemed to have raised the price from $199 to $349! But anyway-
LFX36A3-BS12 - Shorai Lithium Batteries

Is a powersports intended battery that claims to have higher energy density than most others. It is sold as a starting battery.

My question is this- because LifePo4's do not have the same sulfation issues (right?) isn't there essentially no difference between starting and deep cycle batteries? And if the specs on these are accurate, and I can get 36 ah out of 5 pounds, I could put 3 in parallel and have 108 ah in 15 pounds; which sounds great. But would I need battery management controllers of some kind, or how would I handle cell balancing, overcharging concerns, and all that? My plan would be to have both solar and the ability to charge it fast with a Honda 2000i.

Thanks!!!

[Boxster1971]

These batteries would not be good for RV house use. The Shoria FAQ page makes it clear that they won't warranty use other than powersport applications. Here is the critical Q&A:

Q. Will Shorai LFX Batteries Work In My Electric Vehicle, total loss vehicle, or Non Vehicle-Starting Application?
A. First of all, please note that our batteries have been formulated, revised, and updated many times in order to improve performance in every aspect of performance for their intended usage as powersports drop-in upgrade batteries. Due to safety precautions, please note that our warranty does not cover total loss or capacity usage.

[wincrasher]

Also, it doesn't make much financial sense you can get a large drop-in battery that is 125 ah from Stark Battery for less than $900. This battery also has a limited BMS built in and wouldn't require cabling to tie them together.

[eastbay]

Hello, yes I heard from Shorai as well, I guess that there are two Shorai sites and I was on the wrong (International) one- which had the price of $200 and DIDN"T have (or at least I failed to see it) the admonitions against using it as other than a starting battery.

So that is a "non-starter" as it were!

Is Stark the best choice right now? I'm getting ready to make the jump. Also, is there a simple, single unit that would allow me to charge the Stark from either a charger (which charger?) using my Honda 2000i or solar panels?

Thanks!

[ptourin]

You might take a look at the thread http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...tall-3664.html - it's very long, and has a lot of LiFePO4 info. Definitely worth the read, as there are a still a lot of questions out there about how best to set up, use, charge and monitor these batteries - don't assume that this will be a slam dunk install!

You might look at Progressive Dynamics' line of lithium chargers.

[wincrasher]

As far as I can tell, the Smart Battery & the Stark are fairly equivalent. The warranty is better on the Smart Battery, but the price is higher too. They both have a limited BMS (of sorts). The Stark has a higher AH rating. Availability on the Smart Battery is better.

[ptourin]

I bought 2 SmartBattery SB100's, and it's been very hard (translate: impossible) to get clear charging information from them. In fact, I've gotten conflicting answers from them on whether they do or don't have a BMS - it's clear that they have a BPS that opens an internal relay on over- and under-voltage, but I don't believe they have any internal balancing circuitry - their claim is that their manufacturing process makes it unnecessary.

They recommend the Progressive Dynamics lithium charger line, and claim that there are no overcharging issues if the charger is left online after the batteries are fully charged.
Eastbay: I'm not recommending any of this, only repeating what various people at SmartBattery have said when I've phoned and talked with them. It hasn't been at all consistent - lots more about this on that other thread.

The one thing you should be aware of with StarkPower is that their website implies that there's a smart link between Progressive Dynamics lith chargers and their batteries, so that the charger will cut off at full charge. Two quotes from their website: "... "Smart" chargers stop charging once 14.6V is reached." - and - "Can be left on StarkPower battery and will restart with low voltage signal from battery." If I understand correctly, this is deceptive advertising. I talked with a support engineer at StarkPower and with Progressive Dynamics. There is no "smart communication" between the PD lith chargers and Stark's batteries that stops or starts the charger. The PD chargers are CCCV chargers that bring the charging voltage up to 14.6v at near their current rating, then hold it there and drop the current as the battery approaches full charge. So the current approaches zero. You can decide if it really reaches zero, if cell imbalance issues affect this, and whether leaving the charger connected after full charge will start to damage your batteries. I haven't been able to resolve this yet, and at present I'm manually switching the charger on and off according to the reading on my battery monitor.

[eastbay]

Thanks for the help and information gentlemen. I will keep reading, go through that other thread, and let you know what I wind up with.

I'm surprised that no one has stepped into this void with a plug and play solution. Soon, I imagine.

[ptourin]

I think both SmartBattery and Stark are aiming for that - certainly SmartBattery is. But you have to believe them when they say that their batteries don't need any balancing circuitry and won't be damaged by constant connection to one of the PD lithium chargers. IF THAT'S ALL TRUE, then it's indeed rather plug and play. It's easy to remove your converter/charger and replace it with a PD one, as long as it fits OK. The 2 batteries that I bought were bigger than the ones I removed, so there was a bit of bracket refitting, but they were basically drop-ins. So you could call my installation pretty P&P - as long as you're willing to hook up the new charger and go. It's just that the batteries are so outrageously expensive compared to standard or AGM batteries that you don't want to get burned if their claims are wrong.

SmartBattery has a 5-year warranty - but I'm half expecting that the whole company will totally disappear a few years down the line <g>...