RT Pop. 190 Bathroom conversion to "Permanent" design

[Crank]

I'd like to remove the third seat from my Dodge 1995 Popular 190 and convert the bathroom to something like the "permanent" bathroom design available from 2013. The stock bathroom is just too small for me to be practical, and the larger space would be a huge improvement to the van.

Has anyone attempted this, or have some ideas about the conversion? If so I would like to know what you learned about it. It does not look too difficult a task.

Thank you.

[peppster66]

I think its a great idea, we have a 1997 RT190, and the bathroom was always a little difficult, and small, good luck with it,,,,

[gerrym51]

isn't the old 190's the temporary bathroom with mid floor shower pan. ingeneral this temporary bathroom seems far larger. i've actually tried the nwes style bathroom and the pictures make it look larger than it is.

[Crank]

Thanks for the comments to date. After a little research, I'd like to formulate my question more precisely.

(Yes Gerrym51, the earlier design does require the bathroom to temporarily extend into the aisle by means of privacy doors and shower curtain: the aisle has a shallow well and drain to enable a standing shower. The “Permanent Bathroom”, at least in some configurations, has the same capability: you can take a private sitting shower with the doors closed, or a less private one standing in the aisle (which is what I expect to end up with). Some variants do not intrude into the aisle and onlt a sitting shower is possible. The pros and cons of the two designs have been thoroughly discussed elsewhere: I hope we do not go off-topic and repeat that discussion here.

My goal in starting this thread is to obtain ideas and advice for how to effect a conversion to something like the newer "permanent bathroom" design, which to me is a greatly preferable. I plan to remove the unneeded 3rd (24x24”) seat anyway. I would move the wall behind it forwards 10-12”.

My main goal is to attain more toilet side clearance. My height is 5' 11", waist 40", weight 190 and the 3" hip clearance to wall on either side when sitting is insufficient (towards the rear of the compartment there is 0” clearance on the right): so I expect mine is a common complaint. Also, I dislike the old, cramped bathroom design with feet and privacy doors blocking the aisle, trapping one's companion at one end or the other of the van, although it's better than nothing.

It would be enormously helpful if someone would measure the the distance from wall to door in the Permanent Bathroom for me, excluding any extra distance gained if the doors angle out into the aisle a little; also the toilet width and clearance to door and wall. I am afraid there will be less side clearance when the toilet is turned forward, and I may have to build out into the aisle: I need to compute how much.

My technical questions are how the toilet is plumbed into the black tank and what bonding agents are effective on the tank’s plastic, should I have to cut and repair it in the course of relocating the toilet slightly (I have been told it is difficult to bond). I will need to reroute the toilet water supply if the line is fixed in place, so a secondary concern is how to access under-floor fresh water plumbing if necessary.

This renovation admits various other possibilities, and liberates over a foot of space where the third seat is.

A completely different approach to providing more space on either side of the toilet would be to move the wall AND the toilet forwards without changing orientation. This would avoid possible permanent intrusion into the aisle, but I don't like the layout in the first place.

Any info, advice and ideas are most welcome! Thanks.

[markopolo]

I don't have a Roadtrek Crank but my guess is that the toilet in your van will attach to flange much like a regular house toilet does. In my van, the top of the tank is threaded to accept a toilet flange. A spongy rubber gasket goes on next then you set the toilet in place and secure it by tightening the nuts (the bolts slip into the flange). The toilet in my van originally faced forward. You had to step onto the shower pan. I rotated the toilet to face the aisle - basically the opposite of what you're wanting to do. My guess is that you'll be able to rotate your toilet easily but I don't know if you'll have enough space on the side to make a workable bathroom (as you already mentioned).

The 2004 190P (Chevy) Owners Manual has a plumbing diagram that shows the flange and pipe leading to the waste tank. I don't know if it was the same in 1995.

[booster]

When we were looking at vans, we almost bought a Pleasure-way Lexor on the Chevy. It had the permanent bath that we didn't like. The dealer confirmed that the toilet could be rotated 90* to face the aisle, like Marko did, so yours probably can also.

Have you ever seen the bath style they use in the Roadtrek 210? Toilet is angled on them, which may give more hip and shoulder room.

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by Crank

Thanks for the comments to date. After a little research, I'd like to formulate my question more precisely.
.......
It would be enormously helpful if someone would measure the the distance from wall to door in the Permanent Bathroom for me, excluding any extra distance gained if the doors angle out into the aisle a little; also the toilet width and clearance to door and wall. I am afraid there will be less side clearance when the toilet is turned forward, and I may have to build out into the aisle: I need to compute how much.
.......
Any info, advice and ideas are most welcome! Thanks.

Hi Crank,

We have the "permanent bath" in our RT09/10C190P. I'm assuming that you wanted the distance from the outside wall to the door and to the centerline of the toilet. Those dimensions are approximately 19" and 11" respectively (with the door in closed position). The toilet width is a bit over 14". The clearance between the wall and the toilet is about 4", and between the door and the toilet is about 1". Sorry, these numbers don't add up, but everything except the door is curved ...

Good luck, Dick

[Crank]

Thank you all for the helpful responses. I anticipate I will have to move the toilet and its fittings to the tank for optimal spacing. What were the 2995 tanks made of? I’m guessing ABS, and I have now done a lot of research on bonding plastics, and I don’t think ABS will be a problem.

MarcoPolo, why did you rotate the opposite way? What benefit did you gain. Is there a problem with my plan?

Booster, I have collected some photos of the angled layout, but have no measurements. What is your opinion of it. In terms of comfort and space? I think the toilet side clearance must diminish, going front to back? Can you give me max and min? Maybe it is an optimal solution.

Dick, thanks for the measurements: you confirm my suspicion that the Permanent bathroom layout with the toilet facing directly forwards has a net reduction in toilet side clearance (5”) compared with my 6”, although better than I calculated (my wall to door distance is only 17.5”). Does your bathroom or door project into the hallway with door closed?

Thanks again!

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by Crank

Thank you all for the helpful responses. .....

Dick, thanks for the measurements: you confirm my suspicion that the Permanent bathroom layout with the toilet facing directly forwards has a net reduction in toilet side clearance (5”) compared with my 6”, although better than I calculated (my wall to door distance is only 17.5”). Does your bathroom or door project into the hallway with door closed?

Thanks again!

Hi Crank,

The doors (two of them) "per se" don't project into the hallway when closed, BUT the shower pan does, and the doors have small "magazine racks" at the bottom. The shower pan is tapered with the middle sticking out, and the magazine racks are tapered similarly. See the attached photo (from the Roadtrek website) of the shower pan.



The doors when closed are "in a straight line", with the bottoms of the magazine racks covering the triangular section of the shower pan. When you use the toilet, there is another position that the doors latch closed at (with an extra but attached panel) that then protrudes into the hallway, even more than the shower pan does.

Good luck, Dick

[booster]

Can't give you any dimensions, as we don't have a 210. The toilet and sink are both angled, so it looks like shoulder room would be optimized, but I can't be certain of that.

http://www.roadtrek.com/floorplans.a...D=14&yearID=15

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Crank

--------------------------- MarcoPolo, why did you rotate the opposite way? What benefit did you gain. Is there a problem with my plan? -----------

You've already noted the potential problem which is adequate space. I rotated it to face the aisle for three reasons. Keep in mind that my van is not a factory conversion. It was home-built so he had to work with shower pans etc. that were available for him to purchase.

Three reasons:
1. Neither of us liked stepping into/onto the shower pan to use the bathroom. It squeaked and that was a noise nuisance at night. It got sand and stuff in it fairly quickly. The van floor gets sand and little rocks and grass etc. on it quickly depending on outside conditions and that stuff would get tracked into the bathroom. (I did fix the squeaking shower pan.)

2. It was very tight and closed-in in the bathroom. The bathroom width from the side of the van to the center of the van needed to be a little wider. I never thought of just adding a hold-open-at-an-angle latch to used only when the bathroom was in use.

3. Space. It became a much more comfortable space with the toilet rotated to face the aisle. The bathroom area already had full privacy doors. Also, we gained some storage space by being able to use the shower pan for items like a trash bin, laundry bag and or bags of recyclables like bottles. Those items are easily removed temporarily if needed for a shower. I've only showered in the van twice now though. It's OK if there is no other option but the space is kind of tight.

Link: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...&t=2327#p12550

[Crank]

Many thanks, Marco, for your new ideas, link and excellent photos.

It looks like a possible solution for me would be to move the bathroom wall and toilet towards the front of the vehicle, but retain the option to shower in the aisle. This would solve the problem of the cramped toilet space: however it does not solve the problem of the toilet blocking the aisle when in use.

Another possibility that just struck me is that the privacy doors are not really necessary to us for an aisle shower, just for toilet use: so I might be able to have the toilet facing forwards, or angled as in some of the more recent models, and and arrange for the closed doors to extend enough into the aisle for adequate sidespace only when the toilet is in use: maybe something like Dick illustrated above), so not blocking passage for others. This might require some tricky carpentry (and unfamiliar fixtures), not one of my assets, but I do have a carpenter friend.

Your Dutch door idea has a lot of potential. Because a male cannot use the toilet at all while standing (which is most aggravating for us older folk), I have been thinking about a small hand held urinal plumbed in with flexible hose, but I was stumped on where to discreetly hide it: the Dutch doors offer a solution. Maybe most just settle for a bottle, which is certainly much simple: I don't know: there are risks ... ....

I need to go to a Roadtrek rally in the SW, to see a lot of different layouts, and learn from others, but the rally season is almost over. I did go to the Albuquerque Balloon Festival with Region 9, but the van broke down in town on its maiden voyage on the second day, so I hardly met anyone But I did see one Permanent bathroom, from which all other thoughts have stemmed, and later found other variations. Now for a measuring tape and a TT (toilet template )

Marco, your inventiveness is an inspiration!