Rear Sway Bar

[markopolo]

I installed a Hellwig 7635 Rear Sway Bar on my van this week.

The kit I received is different than what is shown in the downloadable instructions from Hellwig for the 7635 sway bar. My kit required drilling into the frame to mount the frame brackets. The downloadable instructions are for a "no drill" kit.

http://www.hellwigproducts.com/7635.pdf

The "no drill" kit looks like this:



My 7635 kit looks like this:





Here are a few more photos:









The only part of the installation that I am not sure of is that I couldn't mount it so the endlinks are vertical. I kept the sway bar horizontal (parallel with the ground).

Hellwig's instruction shows the end link with slight backward tilt and tilt on my is a bit greater than that.



I would need shorter end links to position the end links more vertical than I did. I didn't want to "point" the sway bar ends "down" because I didn't want to create any ground clearance issues. My understanding of this is that the sway bar would be "stiffer" with more vertical mounting of the end links. I thought it all performed well on my first test drive though.

I'll call Hellwig on Monday to see what they say about the difference in the kit from their current offering and what they say about the end links.

[booster]

When I saw that bar, with those end links, it was and immediate, "that can't work", as the bar would need the regular style links. Didn't see the adapter until the installed drawings. Looks good.

Most folks say to have the bar parallel to the ground and the links perpendicular to that. I assume it is to reduce off axis loads and bushing and link wear. I think it would also give a different stiffness depending on which way the bar moved. I will be interested to see what Hellwigh says.

Is that a 1 3/8" bar like the one for the later chevies?

[markopolo]

Yes, 1 3/8" diameter bar.

I have three options to make the end links (more) perpendicular to the sway bar arms.
1. Move the sway bar back about one inch by making a spacer out of 1"x2" 1/8" thick steel tube and insert it between the D bushing/bracket and the axle shock mounts.
2. Drill a new hole in the frame bracket thus moving the top of the end link forward.
3. Use 1" shorter end links.

All of those options are easy enough to do. #1 might be my preference.

Option 4 is to do nothing until I put a few hundred miles on and see if I think it needs stiffening or notice bushing wear.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Yes, 1 3/8" diameter bar.

I have three options to make the end links (more) perpendicular to the sway bar arms.
1. Move the sway bar back about one inch by making a spacer out of 1"x2" 1/8" thick steel tube and insert it between the D bushing/bracket and the axle shock mounts.
2. Drill a new hole in the frame bracket thus moving the top of the end link forward.
3. Use 1" shorter end links.

All of those options are easy enough to do. #1 might be my preference.

Option 4 is to do nothing until I put a few hundred miles on and see if I think it needs stiffening or notice bushing wear.

I like option 4, as those kind of links align much better than rods with ends type that get squished out very easily from misalignment.

[AK49er]

I also vote for option 4. I would put some weight in the rig and drive it around for awhile and see what it feels like.

[markopolo]

I did contact Hellwig.

(wow, a real person answered the phone not a machine and the guy I needed to speak to left a couple of phone messages for me so they really want to talk to their customers )

Anyway, they asked for and I sent photos of my install for their engineering dept to look at. I measured and reported the angles of the sway bar and the end links. I'll report back with what they reply. It may be that my install is within their recommended tolerances. When I look at the new photos I took it really looks like shorter end links would make the install almost perfect with the end link and the sway bar forming a 90 degree angle and the sway bar level horizontally.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I did contact Hellwig.

(wow, a real person answered the phone not a machine and the guy I needed to speak to left a couple of phone messages for me so they really want to talk to their customers )

Anyway, they asked for and I sent photos of my install for their engineering dept to look at. I measured and reported the angles of the sway bar and the end links. I'll report back with what they reply. It may be that my install is within their recommended tolerances. When I look at the new photos I took it really looks like shorter end links would make the install almost perfect with the end link and the sway bar forming a 90 degree angle and the sway bar level horizontally.

It is nice that they responded well and it will be interesting to see what they say. The links look to just be welded up tubing to tubing, so shortening them would not be a real big deal, if you decided to do it.

[markopolo]

Hellwig responded very quickly to my email with the photos and are sending me a pair of shorter end links. I'll measure the length of the original end links if I get a chance today and will post before and after photos when I receive and install the new end links.

I've read more than a few good comments online about Hellwig and can say they really do respond quickly and with the customer's view point in mind.

[markopolo]

The new end links were delivered today!



Complete with bushings and spacers etc. so that will make it an easier job to remove the old and install the pre-assembled new ones.

The old end links are 5" center-to-center and the new are 4". I held them in place today and think they'll make it a much better install.

Hellwig is a great company to deal with http://www.hellwigproducts.com/products/

[markopolo]

Hard to believe that I only just got around to replacing the end links on the Hellwig rear sway bar late yesterday. Some many other things on my to-do list took priority.

Anyway, it's finally done

Old vs new:


The sway bar arms are much closer to parallel with the ground now.

[AK49er]

Have you driven the rig yet Marko? Any difference in handling with the longer end links?

[markopolo]

I put the new shorter end links on and took the original longer end links off. With the original end links, the sway bar arms were pointing slightly toward the ground. Now, with the new shorter end links, the sway bar arms are very near parallel with the ground.

Drove over 200 miles yesterday. It was a mix of highway driving, lots of smaller roads, lots of hills and turns and the stability of the van is great. There's a real feeling of control of the van.

Whether the 1" shorter end links were an improvement or not is really hard to say. I think it's better, just a bit stiffer on sharp turns and highway exits.

I'm still amazed at how upright the van stays on those sharp turns. Just when you'd expect the van to lean uncomfortably away from a sharp curve it's like something magic just holds it upright. Combined with the new Bilstein shocks there's no rocking or porpoising.

With all of the upgrades, the ride of the van is harsher on poorly maintained roads but that was expected and worthwhile (to us) to gain that feeling of control. Before the upgrades, I complained of constantly having to be on high alert with all the corrections needed to keep the van on track and in my lane in gusty wind conditions and on winding secondary roads. Those path or tracking issues have been completely eliminated. It's much more relaxing and I could drive for twice as long now before needing to take a break.

[booster]

That's very good news! It is always nice to see someone get results that meet best case expectations. Not being totally worn out and stressed at the end of a long drive is a wonderful thing.

[AK49er]

The reason I ask Marko, is that my sway bar sits a little high at the end links. Hellwig advised pre loading the bar by inflating the air bags a little prior to installing the bar. The rig corners like a go cart with the bar but maybe if the bar was horizontal it would handle better, just guessing on that one. Maybe I'll call Hellwig again and tell them about the 2" difference in height and see what they say this time. By the way... I still have my Onan resonator on the shelf, so I know how things go!

[AK49er]

Just got off the phone with David at Hellwig and he gave me the following info. A couple of degrees either way will not make a difference, It's when you get to the 7 degree number that end link length should be corrected. I guess I will fiddle with the air bag pressure a little bit and then crawl underneath and do a little better measuring, I can't leave things well enough alone!

[markopolo]

After the original installation on my van the sway bar arms pointed downward toward the ground and were 8 degrees off level. I have a level that has an angle meter. Now they are close to level.

I love your description "corners like a go cart"

[booster]

This probably isn't directly related to the class B getting a rear bar, but the fact that the rear bars seem to greatly improve straight line stability was very interesting to me. I had kind of expected it when we did our rear bar, based on how understeer works, but had never heard or seen it mentioned anywhere, only cornering. It helped us in driveability, and it appears quite a few others, but the question in my mind was if it had to do with the fact that the vans are rear heavy, front light, opposite of most vehicles. I had played with swaybars on hotrods, but the test of value was always skidpad, slalom type tests, not driving comfort and stability.

My 1996 Buick Roadmaster wagon, body on frame, rear drive, V8, super light GM power steering was "directionally challenged" when we got it. Not unexpected, but harder to drive than I liked. It is heavy front, light rear, front swaybar, no rear swaybar. It is 8 passenger and with a huge load and tow capacity, so the tire pressures are recommended at 30 front and 35 rear, which is not good for understeer and stability. Did some testing and wound up with 34 front and 30 rear which made the stability much better.

No rear swabar was readily available, except some huge, highly expensive, race style bars, but I found some info on one of the hotrod forums that said a Ford Crown Vic cop car rear bar would fit well. They had a bunch of the fit details wrong (not a big deal), but the parts were cheap and doable, so I got one from Ford and put it in. Not big at only 17mm, but the weight in the rear is also pretty low when empty, and it has fairly short arms, so it is a pretty good match.

The results are very similar to what we saw, and have heard from others, in the class Bs. Better steering feel, less steering wheel movement needed, firmer response, less wind pushing. Also got the flatter corning and such, but that was secondary thing (fun though). I guess I would have say that the rules of understeer don't care that much which end is heavier, based on this very small sample of one.

[Photog]

Do you all still have the front swaybar installed on the B's?

[markopolo]

Yes, original front sway bar on my '97 GMC van. It's all original except for Bilstein shocks, new tires and added rear sway bar.

[AK49er]

Yes, almost the exact same as marko's set up. See my last post under "Dodge chassis upgrades" regarding front sway bar fix.