Photog's Lifted Suspension 2009 Roadtrek 190V

[MrRob]

Thanks Photog B)
We've just done the first 200 mile motorway (freeway) part of our trip & all felt exactly like I hoped & expected ... I will drop the rear pressures to 75 for the next country lane section to see how it feels over the next few days.

[Photog]

Originally Posted by MrRob

Thanks Photog B)
We've just done the first 200 mile motorway (freeway) part of our trip & all felt exactly like I hoped & expected ... I will drop the rear pressures to 75 for the next country lane section to see how it feels over the next few days.

If your rig has the tire pressure monitors, watch the pressure change, as the tires heat up. 4-6 psi increase is max. Any more than that, and the tires are flexing too much, causing friction heat and a pressure rise. This usually happen within the first 30 minutes of steady driving.

As the daytime temps rise, the pressures will rise also. That is not a problem, since this pressure rise is not caused by friction heating due to tire flex.

[MrRob]

Originally Posted by Photog

If your rig has the tire pressure monitors, watch the pressure change, as the tires heat up. 4-6 psi increase is max. Any more than that, and the tires are flexing too much, causing friction heat and a pressure rise. This usually happen within the first 30 minutes of steady driving.

As the daytime temps rise, the pressures will rise also. That is not a problem, since this pressure rise is not caused by friction heating due to tire flex.

I keep checking them with a digi hand held TP gauge ... I checked them after 60 miles at 65 to 70 mph whilst at 80 psi and there was a +2 psi change. I will re-check after good run now I have dropped to 75 psi.

In due course I think I will invest in a built in TP monitoring system to put my mind to rest.

Today for the first time I found some lanes that were very similar to the ones that prompted me to seek out ways to improve my van's suspension in the first place. All I can say is where before I was gripping the steering wheel with both hands & beeing bounced out of my seat, or going so slowly as to hold up tractors I am now confident enough to hold the wheel in one hand & keep up with the flow of traffic with the added bonuses that I am able to enjoy all the beautiful scienery AND enjoy driving on all types of road.

The increased ground clearance has been very useful too. Yesterday the sat-nav took us on a detour, around a traffic delay, over a hump back bridge I would not have made it over before. I did feel like a monster truck driver as I crested the little bridge pausing to look down into the swollen river rushing underneath.

[Photog]

Well Rob,
Those are the two main reasons for this modification. I am happy to hear that this worked so well for you.

Safe travels

[todco34]

I have a 2008 RT 190P on a 2007 Chevy Express 3500 van chassis. The rear suspension measures closely to OEM specs but not the front. I want to lift the front suspension 2" but cannot find a supplier of the correct coil spring spacers. I prefer the metal spacers. Can anyone provide the supplier's name for these spacers?
Also will my original 15,000 mile OEM shocks still fit with a lift of 2"?
Tom
Marietta, GA

[Photog]

@Todco34:
The spacers are available from Suspension Maxx ( http://www.suspensionmaxx.com/ ). They do not show up on the website. You will need to call them. The sapcers are made from aluminum. I have not used my spacers, as the springs have done the job.

Some members have concerns about coil-bind, before reaching the bump stops, when using spring spacers. I don't think there will be a coil-bind issue, but I have not checked the full travel of the suspension with the factory springs; so I could be wrong.

The factory length shocks should be fine, since the spacer should bring the front suspension close to normal ride height (the condition for which the shocks were designd). The factory shocks may not have enough rebound control for the compressed springs. How well do the shocks work now? The springs will be equally compressed, so the shocks should work equally well/bad after a spacer install.

Is the front suspension riding on the overload bumpers?

[todco34]

I could just install heavier coil springs like you did instead of the spacers. It's interesting that you are satisfied with your replacement coil springs. Some on the forum have not been happy with the new springs they installed. I measured from the upper inner edge of the fender wells to the ground on my RT. The rears measure 36" and the fronts measure 33.5" .Which springs did you install? Do they raise the front of the RT by 2" to 2.5"? Where did you get them and how much did they cost?

Tom

[Photog]

Our build info is in Post #1.

Sept 2012: Otto-Max TTC-1617 front springs, Boulder Offroad 3" front knuckles, Bilstein Shocks all around, 4" blocks under factory rear leaf springs, extended rear brake lines, added rear sway bar.

I didn't say I was satisfied with the springs, I only said they "did the job". The job of lifting the front suspension about 2", and off of the overload bumpers.

If I could design the springs, they would have a softer ride, while still providing the 2" lift. The Ottomax springs we installed did lift the front suspension, but we feel they are too stiff for any type of rough dirt roads. To get a softer spring with this much lift, the springs will need to be lower spring rate, and much longer. This will make it difficult to install, requiring the use of a beefy spring compressor.

I am actually looking into doing this soon. I have a set of prototype springs that I will be installing. I will create a new thread, with the install procedure, and ride quality. I will add a link in this thread to that info. It may be a couple months before I can get to it, as there are higher priority projects on the table at the moment.

[MrRob]

Originally Posted by Photog

If I could design the springs, they would have a softer ride, while still providing the 2" lift. The Ottomax springs we installed did lift the front suspension, but we feel they are too stiff for any type of rough dirt roads. To get a softer spring with this much lift, the springs will need to be lower spring rate, and much longer. This will make it difficult to install, requiring the use of a beefy spring compressor.

I am actually looking into doing this soon. I have a set of prototype springs that I will be installing. I will create a new thread, with the install procedure, and ride quality. I will add a link in this thread to that info. It may be a couple months before I can get to it, as there are higher priority projects on the table at the moment.

I like the firmness of the 1617 springs. I have found the ride on gravel is crashy but also predictable & controllable unlike the OE springs, just like I'd expect from a firmly sprung road car, rather than a softly sprung off-roader. But then I don't like the way softly sprung off-roaders go down the highway & I hardly ever travel on gravel.
I am looking forward to seeing your progress with setting up the prototype springs

[AZ ADVenturist]

What does "crashy" mean in American?

[booster]

I never cared for the handling of our 07 C190P on gravel. It was noisy, always seemed to be fighting the road, itself, and the driver. It had huge understeer.

The spring change did not change the gravel handling all that much, except if the gravel was also rough, the stiffer springs and Bilsteins kept things under control better.

But, the handling on gravel went from poor to very good as soon as we changed to the proper offset wheels, and got rid of the aluminum factory wheels that were the wrong offset. The van suddenly felt like it should, under control, much quieter, understeer nearly gone, very stable. It makes all the difference in the world, if the tires are actually contacting the ground where they are supposed to, and turning in the proper arc relative to each other.

[MrRob]

Originally Posted by AZ ADVenturist

What does "crashy" mean in American?

How about Harsh?

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/crash

In essence the opposite of supple

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definitio ... e?q=supple



I too have correct offset wheels now ... They do make a massive improvement B)

[themexicandoctor]

Good Evening Everyone,

This is a long first post but not as long & frustrating & costly as going through the process everyone else has here - I know, half the ideas I tried - the guy below I finally discovered is a Genius of Suspension Dynamics.

And I will admit to lurking here for a couple of years (had log-in issues together with the engineering snafus everyone else had it seemed simply too much) and watching this thread all that time, in fact it has doubled in that time & in the meantime I have in the course of driving around the City of LA, twice damaged the dump valves, and, totally destroyed the lowered fiberglass body moulding (the insurance repair estimate is $8500-13500 with freight being installed next week).

But now, I have the solution & have been hard testing everything for 3 months & am fully satisfied with the results of lifting my 2004/5 Roadtrek Versatile 190.

However, while lurking I wasted so much time with a lot of the ideas on this forum, I drove my vehicle all over California to see the lift experts (at least 8 shops) who after 1/2 day would say "we cannot do it, you just can't lift these things, or these parts just don't fit, etc".

Finally I was referred to BILL ERB - (707) 678-3944, of Valley Springworks, 340 Industrial Way, Suite G, Dixon, CA 95620 - about 40 miles southeast of Sacramento.

I knew the moment we spoke on the phone, even though he was 500 miles away, that driving up there in the middle of the night was finally going to be successful, moreover he opened his factory to me at 7am on a Sunday morning & promised me after poring over the forum here that he knew what the problem was (what everyone else is missing) & if he was mistaken, before I left that I would be driving away on the answer.

Bill is a Mechanical Engineer, whose specialty of study was COILS & SUSPENSION DYNAMICS.

On the night I was driving up there, he physically made from scratch two sets of Coil Springs for the Front (I had already lifted the rear 3 inches with an overleaf/overload spring from Supersprings in Santa Barbara - see below).

He promised me that one set would work and it would cause my truck front end to ride between 2.7 - 2.8 inches higher - bottom line; it was in fact, 2.74 inches higher when I left!

All of this without seeing my truck but just reading the forums & knowing his field.

Bill is the go to guy whenever car manufacturers have an engineering crisis with their suspension, when a particular vehicle is released and has a recall, they have units sent to his factory/shop, he engineers a solution & then that engineering is retrofit to all recall vehicles.

All of the Power Company trucks with booms, etc that you see in the Western States, all have engineering done by Bill - he lives & breathes Suspension problems.

I hope my photos post, you will notice the present damage to my bodywork, soon to be a thing of the past.
(the photos won't post, I am not a computer guy and its 1.40am & I am pissed so either you can call Bill or wait for me to learn how to resize photos for this forum - not a bankable bet or you can email me and I will gladly send you the before and after photos).

That powder coated Red Paint you see on the Coils Bill put on at my request) as I waited( his factory can manufacture all the rubber/plastic/nylon bushings, etc on the spot, better than before!

The colour Red signifies the Blood I lost banging my head & knuckles against walls trying to get help from Roadtrek, certain Coil Manufacturers & the Experts.

In fact I was so ecstatic after a couple of hours of working with Bill I asked him to check my rear suspension system while I was there.

Bill took my old leaf springs out, restrengthened them in his ovens, added another leaf, replaced all the worn bushings, parts, etc and then powder coated the Rear Overload Unit from Supersprings the same Blood Red as the front coils and reinstalled everything, I believe the rear is now about 3.5 - 4 inches higher.

I ordered not Bilstein Shocks like I thought I needed for a minimum of $450 & a 5 year warranty, but a higher end shock from KYB (they have low & high end), called Gas Adjust Shocks for only $185 from shockwarehouse for all four shocks with a 5 year warranty!

The truck is harder on corrugated roads and uneven surfaces but I don't drive in those kinds of conditions, all I wanted was the extra clearance and a smooth ride without rolling and pitching around cities and highways and he delivered for a fraction of all the solutions that don't work, described here previously.

Bill explained how all manufacturers just want to get vehicles off the dealer floor, at the lowest possible cost and warranties are based on this. And when it comes to anything with an RV, the issues are expotential.

Call Bill Erb, the guy is nothing short of a Suspension Genius, very honest, very reasonable.

Here is his Yelp Review Link;
http://www.yelp.com/biz/valley-spring-works-dixon

Here is a Filtered Yelp Link about my experience; http://www.yelp.com/filtered_reviews/UI ... yiehF1gIOQ

Here are the details for Supersprings (talk to the owner Gerry) who may also have a solution but ultimately for a Class B & its specific demands, Bill is the go to guy.

http://supersprings.com/index.asp
5055 6th Street, Carpinteria, CA 93013 Phone; 800-898-0705

[booster]

Interesting stuff. What did he do different than Tufftruck on the springs? Springrate, length, etc.

[Photog]

Originally Posted by booster

Interesting stuff. What did he do different than Tufftruck on the springs? Springrate, length, etc.

1) Excellent question.

@TheMexicanDoctor
2) I would like to add another question: Did Bill change the arch of the factory leaf springs, along with adding a leaf?

You said the springs you ended up with would be too harsh for corrugated roads and uneven surfaces. I have that problem with the current TuffTruck springs. They are fine on smooth highways. They reduced pitching and rolling enough to remove the front swaybar. And they provided 2+ inches of lift. It sounds like you tried some of the things we have tried, and run into some of the same brick walls.
3) Sooooo, in you opinion, what is the difference between the Bill Erb coil springs and the TuffTruck springs?

[Photog]

Most forums (like this one) are designed to show photos from a photo-sharing website, such as Photobucket, etc.
Sign up on Photobucket, upload your photos there.
Then click on a photo, and click on link icon above it (looks like a couple chain links). Use the IMG at the bottom.
Open another browser and log into the forum.
When you are posting in a thread, you can paste you photo link there.
Like this: (this one is sized too large for this forum, at 1024 pixels wide). The photos can be edited in Photobucket, to a size that is more friendly to forums.


This one is 600 pixels wide:


You can create a practice post in the "Practice your forum skills here" found in the main Board Index (found in upper left of the screen).

[Photog]

This weekend I will be installing a prototype set of coil springs, from TuffTruck.
The current TuffTruck springs are the same length as the factory springs, but they are much more stiff.

The prototype springs are 2" longer, and the spring rate should be lower. In the end, this should provide the necessary lift, while also giving a softer ride. I am looking to improve the ride on rough pavement and dirt roads.

I will be using an App for my iPhone that records the vibrations using the internal accelerometers or the iPhone. I will be able to compare the before and after effects of the modification. I will be doing this for the rear springs also, when that time comes.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Photog

This weekend I will be installing a prototype set of coil springs, from TuffTruck.
The current TuffTruck springs are the same length as the factory springs, but they are much more stiff.

The prototype springs are 2" longer, and the spring rate should be lower. In the end, this should provide the necessary lift, while also giving a softer ride. I am looking to improve the ride on rough pavement and dirt roads.

I will be using an App for my iPhone that records the vibrations using the internal accelerometers or the iPhone. I will be able to compare the before and after effects of the modification. I will be doing this for the rear springs also, when that time comes.

That will be interesting to see how it works. I seem to remember Tufftruck made some longer ones in the past, and that the guy that put them in said they bowed out badly. That kind of makes sense because they are the between the a-arms mounting with both mounting surfaces changing angle. You definitely will need a spring compressor to put them in.

[Photog]

I have the OTC 7045B Front Coil Spring Compressor.

It was designed for the 1 Ton Ford truck coil springs.

[booster]

Rereading what themexicandoctor posted. He used KYB shocks in his upgrade, not the Bilsteins like we used. If they are like the other KYB Gas-adjusts I have used, they will do a very good job of controlling motion, but will severely harshen the ride. I actually just put a set in the Buick Roadmaster wagon, because I was too cheap to get Bilsteins, and it did get significantly harsher! We found the spring change to not harshen the ride all that much, but we went to the Bilsteins and Michelin MS2 tires at the same time, so that could definitely have smoothed us back out.