Looking for recommendations for suspension parts for Dodge B3500 Roadtrek 190V

[The Eyesore]

Yeah, I dunno. I just made that up. You're probably right. ;p

I'm just picturing trying to torque something attached to a bendy pole and I feel like the end result would be a lower actual torque applied to the fastener as a lot of the torque would be stored in the springiness of the pole. Again, I just made that up, so totally possible that I'm wrong. Haha!

[MythicLionMan]

That bendy pole doesn't really bend . But I'm hoping I can torque these back in using the vice, since it will only be 125 ft/lbs, not whatever obscene number was required to get them out. I also considered tightening them on the vehicle, since it's a pretty good vice.

[MythicLionMan]

I think I should get a boat.

I finally got the replacement bushing and pressed it into the passenger side control arm tonight. I went really slowly, but it seemed to be moving, so I kept going. I thought I had it right until I pulled it off the press and realized that the control arm had bent.

I should have put a screw jack or something between the two sides to keep it from compressing and done the freezer thing.

[The Eyesore]

Aww man... This is sad. Now that you mention it, I'm not even sure how machine shops do these. I probably would've made the same mistake.

[The Eyesore]

https://youtu.be/PGi49s8f0f0?si=6xnqWmhT9zHGrKmx&t=257

[booster]

They make a special tool to do it that you can rent for a low price and some parts stores even load them out. I got one from, IIRC, Advance Auto to mine in the 96 Buick.


It is very important to not bend the arms and that what the tool takes care of for you. You can do it in the hydraulic press, but you need to be able to have the backside of the bushing supported solidly and not just hanging in the air. The tool gets them in nice and straight where a press may not do as well.


https://www.amazon.com/YUAN-Universa...4989851&sr=8-8

[MythicLionMan]

This is one of those mistakes that seems so obvious in retrospect, but at the time it was not. The only good thing is that it's so frustrating that hopefully I'll remember this lesson.

[The Eyesore]

Originally Posted by MythicLionMan

.

Any update? I'm partially here to hold you accountable so that your van doesn't get shelved as the motorcycle did. And then secondly, because this is the most interesting thread in the forum right now.

It's only a small setback for a big reward.

If not in a junkyard, you can find the 4000# LCA on eBay. I saw one there only a week ago.

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by The Eyesore

Any update? I'm partially here to hold you accountable so that your van doesn't get shelved as the motorcycle did. And then secondly, because this is the most interesting thread in the forum right now.

I try to keep it interesting. If I'd just bolted it back together in an afternoon and gone camping it really would have been boring.

I was just coming in from the garage to post an update. I've found an arm in good condition at a wrecker in Quebec, which means it doesn't have to cross the border. I'm trying to decide if I should buy both arms in case I ever need to replace the drivers side. I could probably get a deal on the pair and shipping would be cheaper than doing them individually.

I finally managed to push the bushing back out of the old arm. It was tricky because the far face of the arm wasn't square to the bushing anymore. I used some old brake rotors to support the side that needed to be pushed out. My 'bridge' setup also allowed me to straighten the arm back to the original shape. It's tempting to use it, but I think that the hole is probably out of round now and wont hold the bushing properly.

[booster]

Originally Posted by MythicLionMan

I try to keep it interesting. If I'd just bolted it back together in an afternoon and gone camping it really would have been boring.

I was just coming in from the garage to post an update. I've found an arm in good condition at a wrecker in Quebec, which means it doesn't have to cross the border. I'm trying to decide if I should buy both arms in case I ever need to replace the drivers side. I could probably get a deal on the pair and shipping would be cheaper than doing them individually.

I finally managed to push the bushing back out of the old arm. It was tricky because the far face of the arm wasn't square to the bushing anymore. I used some old brake rotors to support the side that needed to be pushed out. My 'bridge' setup also allowed me to straighten the arm back to the original shape. It's tempting to use it, but I think that the hole is probably out of round now and wont hold the bushing properly.

The bushing goes between two ears off the frame, correct? If so, the bushing can't get out of the arm and all the press fit needs to do is keep it from rotating in the arm.


Best to just measure the inside and outside diameters and see where you are for round and size. A used arm may not be any better so if you can use yours it may be worth a try.


Loctite can fill up to .003 gaps with good strength so perfect isn't needed at all and even new they won't be based on how they are made.


I would guess there is a very good chance you would be fine and even in it spun you would still be totally safe.

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by booster

The bushing goes between two ears off the frame, correct? If so, the bushing can't get out of the arm and all the press fit needs to do is keep it from rotating in the arm.


Best to just measure the inside and outside diameters and see where you are for round and size. A used arm may not be any better so if you can use yours it may be worth a try.


Loctite can fill up to .003 gaps with good strength so perfect isn't needed at all and even new they won't be based on how they are made.


I would guess there is a very good chance you would be fine and even in it spun you would still be totally safe.

The bushing is indeed constrained between the frame. And the length of the arm from the bushing to the balljoint can't have changed much. I'm also pretty confident that the mild steel hasn't been fatigued by all this stress since it was only once back and forth. There is a slight outward curl now (because when I bent it back the metal deformed in a slightly different place than when I bent it out) but both sides of the arm are roughly straight and parallel. The front to back position of the wheel is determined by the strut, so it should still be possible to set the alignment properly with the top control arm.

It does look like after they stamped the arm they did some other operation to size the hole more accurately. There were light splines in the hole when I pushed out the old bushing that are mostly gone now.

I do feel like I'm out of my depth for evaluating the condition of the arm. I can do an inside measurement with callipers, but that's not terribly accurate. I can get a rough idea of how round the holes are at both ends. A rough estimate is that the ID of the hole should be about 0.007" smaller than the OD of the bushing, which is beyond my ability to measure an ID. I measured the OD of the bushing before I put it into the freezer (so I can compare when it comes out) and it's round to within 0.005".

If I do try to re-use this I'll put a mark on the arm and the bushing so that I can see if it moves.

I'm going to mull this one over some more. (This is probably one of the reasons that I'm so slow).

[The Eyesore]

Sounds Dodge-y...

I say do it!

[MythicLionMan]

In another fit of sacrificing maths to the gods of procrastination I made some extensive measurements of my control arms and bushings. If you don't enjoy seeing a man wracked by indecision it is time to move on.

Bushing (Warm)
2.068” - 2.073” range = 0.005”
2.010” - 2.015” range = 0.005”

Cold
2.060” - 2.082” range = 0.022”
2.004” - 2.019” range = 0.015”
(Could the higher range be caused by ice forming on the bushing as I measured?)

Hole (Outside Diameter)

2.065” - 2.073” range = 0.008” stddev = 0.004”
1.994” - 2.015” range = 0.021” stddev = 0.007”

Warm Interference
-0.005” - 0.008”
-0.005” - 0.021”

Optimal Interference Fit

sqrt(2)*0.005 = 0.007”
0.004” - 0.007”

Inconclusions

The bushing looks fine . I'm not thrilled with the variation in the diameter of the holes. The standard deviation isn't bad, but the extremes (particularly on the small hole) aren't great. I think these are probably a few outliers where the hole is extra stretched in one spot where something scraped on the way in or out, and its better overall.

In the worst case the fit would be 0.005" loose, but I don't think that would actually happen in practice. The other extreme is 0.021" of interference, and I think if that were to occur I wouldn't be able to fit it in there.

I'm kind of leaning towards cutting up some spacers and stuffing it all back together. I'm not sure about using loctite or not. I'll give myself the night to talk myself out of it.

[booster]

Originally Posted by MythicLionMan

In another fit of sacrificing maths to the gods of procrastination I made some extensive measurements of my control arms and bushings. If you don't enjoy seeing a man wracked by indecision it is time to move on.

Bushing (Warm)
2.068” - 2.073” range = 0.005”
2.010” - 2.015” range = 0.005”

Cold
2.060” - 2.082” range = 0.022”
2.004” - 2.019” range = 0.015”
(Could the higher range be caused by ice forming on the bushing as I measured?)

Hole (Outside Diameter)

2.065” - 2.073” range = 0.008” stddev = 0.004”
1.994” - 2.015” range = 0.021” stddev = 0.007”

Warm Interference
-0.005” - 0.008”
-0.005” - 0.021”

Optimal Interference Fit

sqrt(2)*0.005 = 0.007”
0.004” - 0.007”

Inconclusions

The bushing looks fine . I'm not thrilled with the variation in the diameter of the holes. The standard deviation isn't bad, but the extremes (particularly on the small hole) aren't great. I think these are probably a few outliers where the hole is extra stretched in one spot where something scraped on the way in or out, and its better overall.

In the worst case the fit would be 0.005" loose, but I don't think that would actually happen in practice. The other extreme is 0.021" of interference, and I think if that were to occur I wouldn't be able to fit it in there.

I'm kind of leaning towards cutting up some spacers and stuffing it all back together. I'm not sure about using loctite or not. I'll give myself the night to talk myself out of it.

IMO, you are severely overthinking this. I know that process well, unfortunately.


What is really of concern in the details is the circumference of the bushing vs the circumference of the hole. The reason I say this is that the bushing is a thin steel tube that will quite easily push out of round. It would be a totally different matter if you pushing and hardened steel bearing race into a big piece of cast iron, because neither would get pushed out of round.


That said, I don't know how many measurements you have taken, but it looks like the average would give a decent press fit and even the loose spots if there were any would be well within Loctite effectiveness range. There is no real world risk of hazard because the bushings are captive and can't fall out or anything truly bad, just spin and wear out the sleeves. Racing bushings, usually of delrin or urethane, are all made to spin, but they wear out fairly fast and they really get beat on without failures.


Forget about freezing the bushings as the thin steel won't have enough heat capacity to stay cold long enough to do you any good. Heating and cooling is normally used for rigid materials like bearings and such.


I have never found control arm bushings I couldn't push in easily with rental tool made for the job (modified C clamp basically) and it will get them straight the best.



You are looking at essentially no risk by putting them in (use Loctite to be certain they don't spin), no cost except maybe a few dollars for a tool rental, and it will done in very short time. My guess is that the tool will show you how loose, or tight, they are by feel. My guess is also there is a very high likelihood they will be just fine.

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by booster

IMO, you are severely overthinking this. I know that process well, unfortunately.

You're right of course. But I do appreciate the moral support from you and TheEyesore.

I just pushed it in. I made a spacer out of exhaust pipe, I glued some measuring sticks on so I could see if the two sides started to move. And it just slid into place easy as can be. It looks nice and square. The Loctite probably helped by acting as lube. I painted a mark on the bushing and arm so that I can see if they move relative to one another. I'm going to crawl under and do the same on the other side.

The one thing that's a bit off is that the bushing is sticking out of the arm by about 1/4", where the original was flush on both sides, so I must have the arm a bit narrower than it used to be. I indulged in a bit of worry about this (lest the arm slide back and forth). I realized that in a properly functioning suspension the only part of the arm that should contact the frame of the van is the centre bore of the bushing. Thus the press fit is designed to take all of the front/back loads on the arm.

After this it shouldn't take long to bolt it all back together and grease it up. Once I get an alignment I can start fixing the storage compartment door that fell off, the roof vent, the leaking skylight, the cracked windshield…