Looking for recommendations for suspension parts for Dodge B3500 Roadtrek 190V

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by booster

Some balljoints are a smooth surface press, like our Chevy ones are and others aren't. I think yours may fall in the second category and actually have small barbs on the press fit area. The are fine so often get mistaken for threads, especially in used ones in the vehicle that are full or rust and dirt.

Yeah, those 'unthreads' are what the K7082 has (the lower is knurled in the direction that makes it obvious that it is meant to be pressed). I was hoping that the small size of the threads meant it was still a press fit. But the service manual for the 96' 3500 pickup has this photo:

Screenshot 2024-03-26 at 11.55.23 AM.png

Whereas the 91' B200 van service manual has this photo:

Screenshot 2024-03-26 at 11.58.18 AM.png

But reading the description again, it doesn't sound like they're implying I need to use that tool to apply pressure while I screw out the bearing. It looks like its purpose is to push the bearings out of the knuckle. I think that I can do that using another tool. It does say that I should "un-thread the upper ball stud from the upper suspension arm." though.

I have to wait until at least April 9th before I can take the van apart and see what's happening. This will be interesting.

[SQUASHMIRE]

From the factory manual for my 99D190V it clarifies ball joint removed must be unthreaded:

UPPER BALL JOINT
DISASSEMBLE
(1) Place a jack under outer end of lower suspension
arm. Raise and support the vehicle.
(2) Remove wheel and tire assembly.
(3) Remove cotter pin and nut from upper ball
joint.
(4) Position Ball Joint Remover C-3564-A between
ball joints. Rotate threaded portion of tool to apply
force to the upper ball joint.
(5) Strike steering knuckle sharply with a hammer
to loosen ball joint from knuckle. Do n o t force ball
jo in t o u t from k n u ck le w ith th e tool.
(6) Remove ball joint seal.
(7) Use Tool C-3561 to unthread ball joint from
suspension arm.

[MythicLionMan]

I finally got around to starting this job on the weekend. I'm pretty slow, so I only got the drivers side disassembled, but it's mostly going well. I ran into two problems:

1. The top ball joint popped out no problem, but the bottom is stuck. I have a couple of ideas to try for that one.
2. The top ball joint is out of the knuckle, but it's stuck in the control arm. My impact wasn't doing anything to it, and my longest breaker bar was starting to flex like it was going to break. I could get a better bar, but I doubt that I'd have many other chances to use it and it might not even work for this job. I really didn't want to have to replace the control arm since it's so new, but that might be the safest course of action. I'm trying to decide between:
   1. MOOG - RK620369 According to MOOG RK is 'value-driven' whereas 'K' is 'problem solver'. I've heard lots of horror stories about MOOG, but so far all of the parts that I've got were manufactured in the US or in Turkey which is encouraging.
   2. MEVOTECH - CMS25135
   3. Buy the MOOG or Mevotech control arms and screw out the ball joint that comes with it and install the K7082 that I already have. I figure I should be able to change the joint if it's brand new and off the vehicle.
   4. Doorman 520-317 The upside to this part is it's what's already on the van and I could just replace the drivers side where the joint failed. The downside, is it's the part that failed after just 12 years!

[booster]

Originally Posted by MythicLionMan

I finally got around to starting this job on the weekend. I'm pretty slow, so I only got the drivers side disassembled, but it's mostly going well. I ran into two problems:

1. The top ball joint popped out no problem, but the bottom is stuck. I have a couple of ideas to try for that one.
2. The top ball joint is out of the knuckle, but it's stuck in the control arm. My impact wasn't doing anything to it, and my longest breaker bar was starting to flex like it was going to break. I could get a better bar, but I doubt that I'd have many other chances to use it and it might not even work for this job. I really didn't want to have to replace the control arm since it's so new, but that might be the safest course of action. I'm trying to decide between:
   1. MOOG - RK620369 According to MOOG RK is 'value-driven' whereas 'K' is 'problem solver'. I've heard lots of horror stories about MOOG, but so far all of the parts that I've got were manufactured in the US or in Turkey which is encouraging.
   2. MEVOTECH - CMS25135
   3. Buy the MOOG or Mevotech control arms and screw out the ball joint that comes with it and install the K7082 that I already have. I figure I should be able to change the joint if it's brand new and off the vehicle.
   4. Doorman 520-317 The upside to this part is it's what's already on the van and I could just replace the drivers side where the joint failed. The downside, is it's the part that failed after just 12 years!

When you say it is "stuck in the arm" and can't get out with an impact wrench or breaker bar, I assume you are trying to unscrew the joint from the arm? If so, I am not surprised and screw in joints do that pretty often. But you said earlier that the balljoint you have is a press in joint so are you sure it is not a press in joint in the arm? You would never be able to turn a press in joint.

Does it have bolt in, with 4 bolts, to hold the joint in? Many aftermarket do that instead of press or screw in because the tolerancing of parts is much easier to do for all different variations they have to make.

If it truly is a screw in joint, you may be able to get it apart by using a torch, but it will be a smoky adventure.

Remove the boot and clean all the grease out of the joint that you can get to. Take out the grease fitting if it has one and clean the area by squirting solvent into the joint. You may be able to puncture the sheet metal ball retainer and pry it out which will let you remove the ball and all the grease, which is best.

Using a oxy acetylene torch is best but a MAP gas handheld torch usually is enough. Do the first heating outside as it will still smoke at least some. You can then move inside to do it for real and hopefully well restrained in a solid vice or other way.

Put some penetrating oil on it and let it sit for a least a couple of hours. I like Kroil the best and PB Blaster next.

Heat only the arm, not the balljoint itself around the threaded area but not as far as it starting to turn red. Rap it with a hammer and flat end punch around the threaded area. Reheat and get on it with the breaker bar and pipe if necessary. If you have a helper to pound on the arm at the same time it may help. You probably won't break your breaker bar on the bar, but might break the pivot pin on it or the socket itself, especially if it is a 12 point.

If it doesn't help, take it back outside and get it hot again, but not as hot as before to be safe, and CAREFULLY squirt penetrating oil on the threaded area of the joint. It is best to heat to relatively lower temp first until you find out where the oil will running in the joint well and not flaming. Don't use aerosol penetrating oil because the gas can be very combustible. You probably will get so flame from the oil so be in a spot that won't burn (not sitting on cardboard or wood).

Some will not come apart without tearing out all the threads that have been weakened by all the rust and stress on them and then you have to get new arms.

Bolt in joints are great, press in are tough and need special pressing tools and probably a 20 ton press, and screw ins are the really terrible ones to deal with. Truck shops will use a 3/4" drive impact wrench on them, I think, and those impacts are huge and can have 2000# or more impact torque.

[peteco]

Here's another option to try: CRC Freeze-Off. It has worked well for me getting seized bolts out. It may be harder for it to work on a larger metal mass. Worth a try.

https://www.amazon.com/CRC-Freeze-Of...000TFTH00?th=1

[Blueboy1]

Did that job back in 2015 on my PW, 1996 Dodge B3500 . Replaced both control arms with Moog RK620369 and I am completely satisfied with those parts. By the way I do have the service manual for the 1996 , B3500 on CD-Rom.

[The Eyesore]

I’m sitting right next to a Moog RK620369 along with all the other Moog parts for my front end. Looks like a high quality part, to me. However, I’m planning to store my factory control arms as a backup for the future.

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by booster

When you say it is "stuck in the arm" and can't get out with an impact wrench or breaker bar, I assume you are trying to unscrew the joint from the arm? If so, I am not surprised and screw in joints do that pretty often. But you said earlier that the balljoint you have is a press in joint so are you sure it is not a press in joint in the arm? You would never be able to turn a press in joint.

I thought that it was a press in, but only the lower is a press in. The upper is a screw in (even though the threads seem like they do nothing). I got the huge four sided socket to drive it out. The socket has a 3/4" drive, so I got an adaptor to 1/2" drive. The 3/4" should have been a hint that it needs a ton of torque.

Originally Posted by booster

If it truly is a screw in joint, you may be able to get it apart by using a torch, but it will be a smoky adventure.

Using a oxy acetylene torch is best but a MAP gas handheld torch usually is enough. Do the first heating outside as it will still smoke at least some. You can then move inside to do it for real and hopefully well restrained in a solid vice or other way.

I did try that on the weekend, but not with the right kind of torch. I only have a propane torch, and it doesn't make enough heat. The only Mapp gas around here is the Map-pro so I never bothered to get a torch. I've been thinking about getting an inductive heater for stuck bolts but I don't think that would be much help for this job.

Originally Posted by booster

Put some penetrating oil on it and let it sit for a least a couple of hours. I like Kroil the best and PB Blaster next.

I've been trying the ATF/Acetone mix, but I also hit it with a shot of the cold stuff to see if I could shock it into behaving. Years ago I looked for Kroil but it was hard to find. Nowadays it's probably easy to get.

Originally Posted by booster

If it doesn't help, take it back outside and get it hot again, but not as hot as before to be safe, and CAREFULLY squirt penetrating oil on the threaded area of the joint. It is best to heat to relatively lower temp first until you find out where the oil will running in the joint well and not flaming. Don't use aerosol penetrating oil because the gas can be very combustible. You probably will get so flame from the oil so be in a spot that won't burn (not sitting on cardboard or wood).

I was trying to heat it on the van because I was hoping not to remove the arm. Since I'm at the point where I'd have to remove it anyway I pulled it off tonight and I'll try again off the vehicle.

Originally Posted by booster

Some will not come apart without tearing out all the threads that have been weakened by all the rust and stress on them and then you have to get new arms.

These arms are relatively new and seem rust free (it's my lowers that have some rust, but the drivers side looks pretty good now that I've cleaned it up.)

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by peteco

Here's another option to try: CRC Freeze-Off. It has worked well for me getting seized bolts out. It may be harder for it to work on a larger metal mass. Worth a try.

https://www.amazon.com/CRC-Freeze-Of...000TFTH00?th=1

I actually did try a version of that on the weekend. Not sure if it was that exact brand, but it advertised the same 'freezing' ability.

I can never tell if a penetrating oil is working. I put some ATF/acetone on the exposed threads of my shock, and it made backing the nut off much easier, but that wasn't really 'penetrating'. I'm sure it helps, but I never know if one is better than another. I just do the happy dance when the nut breaks free.

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by Blueboy1

Did that job back in 2015 on my PW, 1996 Dodge B3500 . Replaced both control arms with Moog RK620369 and I am completely satisfied with those parts. By the way I do have the service manual for the 1996 , B3500 on CD-Rom.

I have a scanned copy of the manual for the '96 pickup, and some screen grabs from a YouTube video of the '91 manual for the van. This job is an area where the van and pickup are pretty different. I still kind of manage with what I've got.

Good to know that the RK620369 are still working and that they fit in the first place.

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by The Eyesore

I’m sitting right next to a Moog RK620369 along with all the other Moog parts for my front end. Looks like a high quality part, to me. However, I’m planning to store my factory control arms as a backup for the future.

Can you see where the control arms were manufactured on the label? And can you see a part number on the ball joint? I have K7082 for the upper, but I don't think there's a visible number on it. I'm just wondering what ball joint they have in there.

What did you get for the lower control arms? Are you pressing new ball joints into the original arms?

[The Eyesore]

Hecho en Taiwan ��
No visible part number on the ball joint, just a couple codes probably indicating the date and plant of manufacture.
Similarly, the control arm has some cryptic coding on it.
All pictured.
Yes, pressing new joints and bushings into the lowers.

[The Eyesore]

So, it happens that I also have the correct upper ball joints (Moog K7082) in front of me. I opened the boxes and was a little surprised to see the ball joints reinstalled in the Moog control arms are visually different (more generic looking) than the Moog ball joints sold individually.

Not terribly pleased about this, to be honest. Haha!

See pics.

[The Eyesore]

Welp, I just bought the socket and some extra upper control arm bushings. Time to decide if I'm going to use the Taiwanese control arms with the USA-made ball joints, or refit my factory control arms with new parts.

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by The Eyesore

Welp, I just bought the socket and some extra upper control arm bushings. Time to decide if I'm going to use the Taiwanese control arms with the USA-made ball joints, or refit my factory control arms with new parts.

Let me know what you decide. If I can't get the joints out of my Dorman arms then I have to decide if I want to buy new arms just to swap the joints or if I'll return the joints that I have. I'm curious how hard it is to screw the joint out of the new arm.

[booster]

Originally Posted by The Eyesore

So, it happens that I also have the correct upper ball joints (Moog K7082) in front of me. I opened the boxes and was a little surprised to see the ball joints reinstalled in the Moog control arms are visually different (more generic looking) than the Moog ball joints sold individually.

Not terribly pleased about this, to be honest. Haha!

See pics.

Zooming in on the joints in the pix, they really look like they don't have threads on them. The "threads" if they are that are severely truncated on the outside diameter, which would be very unusual. They look more like the barbed ones I referred to earlier.



It would be interesting to wrap a fine wire around to make sure they are threads just to make sure. With them making both styles anything is possible on this old stuff..

[The Eyesore]

I thought the same thing, but a close inspection confirms they are in fact threads, threaded in the right hand direction. They’re not very sharp threads, but they’re threads. In this pic, you can sort of see the beginning of the groove and also you can tell there’s a pitch, if you look closely. You’ll have to take my word for it because I’m too busy to go out to the shop and find a wire to wrap around these. Lol.

What I’m really curious about is the shape of the threads and the tolerances in the Taiwanese control arms.

[The Eyesore]

Originally Posted by MythicLionMan

I'm curious how hard it is to screw the joint out of the new arm.

I'm so curious about this too!

[booster]

Originally Posted by The Eyesore

I thought the same thing, but a close inspection confirms they are in fact threads, threaded in the right hand direction. They’re not very sharp threads, but they’re threads. In this pic, you can sort of see the beginning of the groove and also you can tell there’s a pitch, if you look closely. You’ll have to take my word for it because I’m too busy to go out to the shop and find a wire to wrap around these. Lol.

What I’m really curious about is the shape of the threads and the tolerances in the Taiwanese control arms.

That makes it a lot clearer that they are a very odd thread indeed. It would be interesting to see what an unmolested arm looks with a new thread and if they are interference or not, which was also mentioned by the OP in relation to force coming out.

[MythicLionMan]

Originally Posted by booster

Zooming in on the joints in the pix, they really look like they don't have threads on them. The "threads" if they are that are severely truncated on the outside diameter, which would be very unusual. They look more like the barbed ones I referred to earlier.

It would be interesting to wrap a fine wire around to make sure they are threads just to make sure. With them making both styles anything is possible on this old stuff..

That's a good idea. I tried running my fingernail through them, but I kept losing my place. I'll try a thread when I get out to the garage tonight.

I recall reading 'somewhere' that it's possible to press them out and the 'threads' on the ball joint collapse, but not in the control arm. I can't remember the source, and I'm not certain if it was exactly this joint. It seemed sketchy so I wasn't going to try it, but I may do the experiment as a last ditch if I'm about to give up on the control arm anyway.