Hondo's 2006 Roadtrek 210 Popular Build

[Hondo]

A screenie from the Roadmaster website-

The "68" link is a note that says it needs an bracket kit for the axle.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

A 1 3/8 bar might be a good compromise. I wonder how the 1" would work?

I'll call the Roadmaster folks tomorrow.

Ordered new pitman & idler arms, eliminating that from the possible steering culprits.

The 1 .375 bars are known to work well, and Photog said his 1.250 bar seemed a bit light, which makes sense as it would be smaller than the front 1.375 bar. A 1.000 bar would be way too light, I think, to do much real good.

[Hondo]

Just order the Roadmaster 1 3/8" anti sway bar and axle mounting kit-

- Bar- p/n 1109-150 - $475 shipped from Amazon

- Mounting kit p/n 590061 - $99.95 shipped from Etrailer

Here's a pic from the instructions- looks like there shouldn't be any issues with my genset-

[Hondo]

Also, a few pics of the rear wheels with & without the 2 inch rear spacers -

[booster]

Have you measured the front and rear track width? If different that can lots of problems on some road surfaces. It is one of the weak spots for the Dodges, so we have heard a lot about it.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by booster

Have you measured the front and rear track width? If different that can lots of problems on some road surfaces. It is one of the weak spots for the Dodges, so we have heard a lot about it.

No, I just removed the rear spacers at the recommendation of Denver Spring. he told me (and I later confirmed online) that most Chevies have a narrower track in the back to increase stability.

The wheels have more offset than stock but less than the AR23s, but the ratio is now correct thus a better driving machine.

Still waiting to hear back about the alignment specs and recommendations. DS told me that with this lift the standard settings won't work so I'll have to try a few different setting to stabilize it. I read that Firestone has a lifetime warranty program that might be perfect for this vehicle & situation.

After seeing my compression video I took I'm pretty sure that I'll be having Denver Spring make or install a new set of springs up front.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

No, I just removed the rear spacers at the recommendation of Denver Spring. he told me (and I later confirmed online) that most Chevies have a narrower track in the back to increase stability.

The wheels have more offset than stock but less than the AR23s, but the ratio is now correct thus a better driving machine.

Still waiting to hear back about the alignment specs and recommendations. DS told me that with this lift the standard settings won't work so I'll have to try a few different setting to stabilize it. I read that Firestone has a lifetime warranty program that might be perfect for this vehicle & situation.

After seeing my compression video I took I'm pretty sure that I'll be having Denver Spring make or install a new set of springs up front.

The rear of the Express vans is .4" narrower, or .2" per side, so not a lot. Narrower can help stability, but IIRC it will also increase understeer because the front wheels get more weight transfer from cornering, and that isn't good in a Roadtrek. At .4" I wouldn't think any problem, though. The problem with mismatch doesn't really show up until you are in the inches of difference so the edges of the tires won't hit ruts the same. The front or rear will hit first, or only, and throw of stability.

What "ratio" is now correct to make a better driving machine?

You might find that the "lifetime" alignment has a disclaimer for any non stock or worn out parts that happen. It is a very common thing they do and don't tell you up front. You go in for your free alignment and they say they can't do it because something is either worn and has to be replaced (by them) or there is a non stock item in place. I have heard many horror stories about it around here in Minnesota and not just about Firestone.

[Hondo]

By ratio I meant factory frot/rear hub/axle track width.

Using the 2 inch spacers increased the rear width and removing them restored the factory "ratio".

Regardless of tire size or wheel offset, this ratio will remain if all wheels are identical.

Regarding the alignment, the intent of their offering is to find the right alignment in multiple visits.

[booster]

You don't know at this point if your front track is the same as factory as knuckle lifts usually move the wheels out some and make wider front track.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by booster

You don't know at this point if your front track is the same as factory as knuckle lifts usually move the wheels out some and make wider front track.

Correct, I have not measured the actual track with the new knuckles. BOR told me that the front track would be wider but did not say by how much.

I guess that I could measure it.

This much is certain- my RT 210 drives better without the additional 2 inches of track per side after removing the wheel spacers. Once the alignment is checked and corrected (if necessary) then I will see if adding the spacers is possible.

[Hondo]

Took the RT to a local shop today to get the front driver & passenger windows tinted-





That should keep things cooler and protect the cab from UV damage-

[Hondo]

booster- ya get your springs installed?

Steering update-

I installed new heavy duty Moog steering parts including pitman arm, idler arm and idler arm bracket. This made a huge difference in bumps felt in the steering wheel. New tie rods and tie rod ends on the way from Rock Auto.

And speaking of Rock Auto - I saved about 50% over local auto parts sellars, so compare the next time you need something.

Tomorrow I'll be installing the rear anti sway bar- awaiting the "axle kit" they say was necessary. Included in the rear sway bar kit was a set of poly bushing for the front sway bar, so I installed those along with new Moog front sway bar links.

After I get all the new parts in it is off to a recommended shop for a full 4 wheel alignment & analysis.

[Hondo]

Installed the Roadmaster 1109-150 1 3/8 Anti Sway bar today on the Roadtrek 210 Popular.

I found that I did not need and couldn't use the recommended bracket kit from Roadmaster. 1st, the installed air bag mount would have gotten in the way - here's what the bracket kit looks like-



I decided to go another direction and use the included parts of the main kit but with some modifications (welding, grinding, ect).

So here's the full sway bar kit-



here is the stock mount -I had to drill out the holes to 1/2 inch -



I thought that the included black brackets would bolt right up to the stock mounts but the spacing was too long. So I attched the bracket to the bottom hole and welded the bracket to the axle mounts-





I ground the mounts smooth (I'm not a great welder) and sprayed the bare metal with some black paint-



At the top of the mounts you'll notice a space and I filled that with 2 washers that I trimmed/cut to fit, then bolted up the bar-



After I installed the verticle arms I rotated the bar up and supported the bar while I determined where to drill the hole(s) in the frame -



After I took that pic I put my floor jack under the bar so that I could change the height. Here is where I decided to dril through the frame-



You see that large copper line that's wrapped in plastic? I had to move that up a bit and re-secure it's adel clamp (see the pic below)

Because the frame is a "box frame" I elected to drill through both sides of the frame and secure it with the long bolts supplied in the kit. There just wasn't a way to get the washer & nut inside the frame. Here's the final mounting-





A look from below after completing the installation -



I may have to have the main exhaust pipe moved a bit -



Final thoughts on this install-

- If you have airbags installed you might be able to get the bracket kit to work, I didn't try or open the box. If you don't have airbags installed then the bracket kit should work on our 3500 series Chevrolet based Roadtreks without interference of the genset.

- What I did could be done by a shop or anyone with the skills & tools necessary to make it work as I did. Welding is required and there was some fabrication involved too (large cut washers).

So how did it drive?

Unbelievably better, it really made a HUGE difference, and right now it needs an alignment badly!

[markopolo]

Your 210 is in fantastic condition.

Do you think the Roadmaster bar would fit on a non-lifted Roadtrek? It looks like you have so much clearance there. I put a Hellwig bar on my van with the under-mounted spare and it looked to have adequate clearance but the spare and the sway bar made occasional contact based on a rub mark on the spare. I never felt it but the mark was there. Rear Airlift bags stopped that from happening.

Great write-up and photos!

[Hondo]

Well, I hadn't thought about the lift & clearance, but from this photo of a bar installed on a stock van (from the installation instructions) it looks like clearance shouldn't be an issue-



Looking at the both my final result & stock van photos you can see that the ends of the bar (and the vertical struts) are indeed higher than stock in relation to the rear wheels-

[Hondo]

Ok, I got to thinking about genset clearance on the 210s that are not lifted.

As mine is lifted between 3 & 4 inches in the back, the body is raised above the axle that amount.

That increases the clearance as shown in my photos. But with the lift & higher body I had to rotate the bar up farther to secure it's verical supports to the frame, and this roated the lower portion of the bar up as well.

in this photo you can see the bar & it's relationship with the genset-



I would guess that on a stock chassis the bar will ride much lower (as shown in the B&W install photo from Roadtrek) and clearance probably wouldn't be an issue.

So look close at the this pic to determine if you'll have enough clearance-

[booster]

For anyone considering doing a rear swaybar, especially on a vehicle that is either higher (like Hondo) or lower (like stock Roadtreks), be sure that all the final fitting is done with full weight on the rear and front wheels, no on frame jackstands or by lifting the rear with a floor jack on the differential. It is also best to remove the front swaybar links so they don't influence the level of the van. Level the van to your desired height with the front bar disconnected if you have airbags, as the bar will fight any changes from the bags, even though they are on the other end.

A swaybar like the one shown have an offset in the middle of them that moves in an arc as the axle moves up and down, do you need to make sure you get the end links in the right spot to make sure that offset is in the best position to move without hitting anything or go to low (which is almost where Hondo is in the pic) so that it is below the differential casting and vulnerable. The frame mount Hondo has for the links is easy to position on the frame, so getting the right spot should be pretty easy. Some bars locate the endlink brackets at the frame, so you would need to change the end link lengths to get it right in some cases.

When done, with the van sitting level and with normal loads, you should be able to remove and install the the end links and when done the bar is in the right place. The bar should not move when you loosen either of the links with the other tight, as that would indicate a zero position preload bias that is transfering weight, and that can affect the handling. It is also a good idea to check the front swaybar for the same kind of bias when done, and remedy it if it has bias preload.

[Hondo]

That's how the end links are on my installation- one side was drilled and fastened to the frame and then the other side.

Result is that there is not any static load on either side while the weight of the vehicle is on the axle.

I started work with the RT on ramps but had to put the axle (not the frame) on jack stands (recommended by Roadmaster) to complete the install as both rear wheels had to be removed. The load on the axle was of course constant.

I did not remove the front sway bar as this wasn't recommended in the install instructions. At the time of the install the front end was chocked and at rest.

[markopolo]

It does look like there`s a lot more clearance with your Roadmaster bar compared to the Hellwig bar.

roadmaster.jpg

The round Hellwig bar is flat through the offset. The entire bar would lay flat on the ground. The Roadmaster bar offset is angled down a fair bit.

If the anti-sway bar arms were parallel to the ground then there`d be even more clearance as you pointed out.

[Hondo]

Not much chance of snagging the anti sway bar-

Here are a few videos I just did-

Going straight over a large speed bump then across a drainage dip -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cga...ature=youtu.be

Going across the speed bump again but each time only one side-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVo6...ature=youtu.be