Hondo's 2006 Roadtrek 210 Popular Build

[booster]

As has been mentioned, knuckle lifts and wrong offsets mess up the geometry. A damper is just a way to try to hide the bump steer that is there. It doesn't remove the bump steer or the forces it is generating. The correct height Chevies, which are about 2" higher than a stock Roadtrek, have very little bump steer and are very stable to drive, for comparison. Severe bump steer is also hard on front end parts as they are constantly getting turning force on them from bumps.

The damper will also negatively affect the "normal" handling by taking away all or most of the feel at the center position. It will feel heavy and not obvious what is straight forward. I just went through this on my 96 Roadmaster wagon when I replaced all the front end parts including the springs and the factory damper. Got it aligned to preferred specs by a good shop, and mentioned to the tech it was lacking center feel, which he also felt in the after alignment drive. It was just uncomfortable to drive that way. I thought about it for a while, and saw from parts lists that they didn't put the damper on the Chevy versions, so I took off the damper and it felt just like it should, with no ill effects or bump steer. I think they put it on to keep the geezers that bought those cars from being all over the road from overcorrecting.

The other thing you don't know at this point is what your actual scrub radius is, which is very hard to measure. Whoever actually designed the spindles should be able to give you some dimensions and angles that would let you calculate it for your tire and wheel combination. Big positive scuff will make the wheels turn a bunch if they hit a resistance like a puddle or deeper sand or snow, and if you hit deep holes.

[Ron J. Moore]

FWIW, I installed the Road Master Steering Damper to mine about a month ago. i am it has helped me. The road to our place is unpaved, holes abound and uneven. In the short time I have had it, it has made handling on my road easier - I have less jerking and tight grip to keep that wheel in my hand. May not be for everyone, but so far it has worked well for me. Ron

[Hondo]

At this point the RT is good but just needs some tweaking to make it highway/all day friendly. New wheels and tires are not in the immediate plan as I am determined to do what I can to make this combination of wheels/tires, knuckles & springs (possibly new up front) work. Bump steer may have to be lived with for a period of time or dampened in order to achieve the 4 inches of current lift.

If I had wanted to have only 2 inches I wouldn't have installed the 4 inch kit. I realize that this hasn't been done before on a 210 (well, not by Boulder Offroad anyway) so it's all experimental and will take some doing to see it through. So what might work for a 2 inch lifted RT that stays on the pavement won't work for me & my goals though I really do appreciate all of the assistance and awesome information.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

FWIW, I installed the Road Master Steering Damper to mine about a month ago. i am it has helped me. The road to our place is unpaved, holes abound and uneven. In the short time I have had it, it has made handling on my road easier - I have less jerking and tight grip to keep that wheel in my hand. May not be for everyone, but so far it has worked well for me. Ron

Do you have the new style Roadtrek aluminum wheels on your van? If so, and if they are the same (incorrect) offset as the AR wheels are, that can certainly contribute to steering wheel jerking like that from bump steer. We have been hoping someone will get a chance to either look at the backside of the wheel to see if the width, offset, and load capacity are marked, or measure the offset when they have a wheel off. I think that will be interesting information when we get it. If they have the correct offset, that would make them about the only aftermarket style that does, and if they are 7.0 inches wide or wider and the right offset, they would be the perfect solution for upsizing tires.

Have you noticed any lack of steering "feel" at highway speeds, or increased effort needed to do the continual small corrections needed to go in a straight line, like I did on my old Buick?

[Hondo]

Wouldn't the need for constant small corrections be loose/worn steering components or wheel bearings/tires?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Wouldn't the need for constant small corrections be loose/worn steering components or wheel bearings/tires?

Every vehicle normally will need small corrections as you go down the road, which get more and larger as the responsiveness of the steering gets worse. Worn parts just accentuate the issue.

On a very well handling van, you can get the correction size at the steering wheel to under 1/2", while most in stock form will be an inch or more. When you get to small corrections, the drive gets to be lighter touch on the wheel, and maybe even just a few fingers on one of the spokes. The smaller the correction is, the easier it is to correct as the vehicle has not gone as far offline at that point. The corrections are not always around the exact centerpoint, though, all the time. Crowned roads, wind, ruts etc can change what is needed to keep going straight down the road. You will be holding the steering toward the crown of the road, or into the wind, for instance, and the corrections will be around that slightly turned position.

I will also point out, though, that one person's "responsive handling" can be another person's "twichy handling". Those that are used to larger corrections and do the 10 and 2 on the wheel will be very prone to overcorrect a quicker responding vehicle. Most will get used to it quickly, but some never do and like the less responsive, but more work, of larger corrections.

I remember back when I was just out of college, at one of the car testing magazines of the time rated vehicles on how many "corrections per mile" they needed, which was always interesting.

[Hondo]

Yeah, that all makes perfect sense.

I just heard from Denver Spring after he looked at my latest alignment sheet- he noticed a significant rear axle toe reading difference so he's sending that off to a few alignment pros to get their opinion...looks like I might need that corrected.

[Hondo]

Booster- did you install the new front springs yet?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Booster- did you install the new front springs yet?

Scheduled for tomorrow morning. Hopefully, they will give me a couple minutes to collect some measurements for trim height and wheelwell height before and after with it on the nice flat rack. It would be interesting to compare to my driveway measurements.

[Hondo]

Cool.

One thing that Denver Spring told me that there is probably significant spring sag of the front coil springs over the last 12 years. He's still going to send the weights over to his spring maker to see what he recommends for a spring that would restore for stock and one that would increase the lift by 1.5 inches.

[Hondo]

also, do you guys know what the front axle weight would be for a regular 3500 express van?

I found 3255 online for a 2005 passenger van HERE

That's 345 lbs LESS than my RT 210 with probably the same springs.

[Deano]

Hondo,
Does yours have 2 smaller reading lights in the rear corners like mine does?
If so, did you change out the 10 watt halogens for LEDs and which did you use?

[Hondo]

Yes, I have those, but I'm using the 1st LED bulbs that I bought- they haven't burnt out yet but then again I have not used them much.

[Hondo]

I took some videos this morning with my generic wifi action camera.

1st - front suspension over large drainage whoops, right front wheel well-

https://youtu.be/l_mDdT3MVlM

The next 2 videos are of the drivers side suspension viewed from the crossmember. The camera & video are tilted 90...

In this video you can see what appears to be a LOT of movement and bump steer at the steering pitman arm-

https://youtu.be/FwmWC2STX98

In this video I am driving over 4 sunken manhole covers -

https://youtu.be/l_mDdT3MVlM

[booster]

If Boulder is going to put in a home built bar, they may want to do something similar to what we did to make it quicker and easier as a lot of the parts are off the shelf roundy-round racer parts. details here:

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8....html#post7329

This setup cleared the Onan just fine in ours, when we had the generator in place.

[Hondo]

I'm going to talk to a few shops here in the Denver area to see if a simpler one (like Photogs) might be fabbed up once I get the rest of the issues sorted.

Not sure if you know who to tell but the Admin's ought to add a forum mod that makes embedding video possible.

[Hondo]

I climbed underneath and looked at the pitman & idler arms while my son moved the steering wheel from side to side- there is noticeable play in both arms.

I'm not sure if the amount of play is acceptable so I'll have to have that looked at too. New parts are about $160 shipped to my door from Rock Auto.

[Hondo]

Anyone used this rear sway bar by Roadmaster?

https://www.etrailer.com/Anti-Sway-B...-1109-175.html

From the pics it looks like it wouldn't interfere with the genset.

I see 3 sway bar kits available-

- 1109-148 - 1" bar diameter
- 1109-150 - 1 3/8" bar diameter
- 1109-175 - 1 1/2" bar diameter

[booster]

That looks like the bar that used to be called out just for the cutaways. Hard to tell where it will actually sit because that differential looks to be on a lighter duty van than a 3500.

At 1.5" diameter and short arms, it will have lots of antisway force, but also harshen up one wheel bumps in the rear by quite a bit.

The Hellwig is 1.375" by comparison and 1/8" is a lot of difference in swaybar rate.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by booster

That looks like the bar that used to be called out just for the cutaways. Hard to tell where it will actually sit because that differential looks to be on a lighter duty van than a 3500.

At 1.5" diameter and short arms, it will have lots of antisway force, but also harshen up one wheel bumps in the rear by quite a bit.

The Hellwig is 1.375" by comparison and 1/8" is a lot of difference in swaybar rate.

A 1 3/8 bar might be a good compromise. I wonder how the 1" would work?

I'll call the Roadmaster folks tomorrow.

Ordered new pitman & idler arms, eliminating that from the possible steering culprits.