Hondo's 2006 Roadtrek 210 Popular Build

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Still researching the coil springs....
but...
Got my RV Superbag today!
I ordered the King Size bag with sheets, Imperial Gold. The great thing anout the bag is it has a summer and a winter side- just flip it over.
It came in a reusable plastic zipper bag-
Nice interior pattern as well -
The sheets are designed to velcro into the Superbag -
Very high quality, made to order in the USA by a family owned business, recommended if you are looking for an easy solution!

Agree - the RV Superbags are great. I tried several other bedding setup before settling on the Superbags. Definitely a good solution for the tight spaces in our B-vans. They are a bit pricey. But that is the cost of American hand made quality.

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Hondo]

Can anyone post up the measured stock free length of a STOCK spring?

I can't seem to find that.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Can anyone post up the measured stock free length of a STOCK spring?

I can't seem to find that.

Most are assuming it is 17.7 or so", but I don't think anyone has ever seen a new one, and the used ones are shorter than that as they settle quite a bit. The Tufftruck spring was speced at 17.7", and were snug into the pocket, so the factory ones would likely be around that or a bit shorter, I think.

A set of Erb springs showed up on my doorstep today and are about 18.3" tall. They will be going in next week so I hope to have some real trim height numbers and our corner weights by a while after that.

Also remember that with all the wheel offset you have compared to stock, the spring to wheel centerline ratio is going to be significantly different compared to what the rest of us have. This will have an affect on the ride height and comfort you get from any spring.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Agree - the RV Superbags are great. I tried several other bedding setup before settling on the Superbags. Definitely a good solution for the tight spaces in our B-vans. They are a bit pricey. But that is the cost of American hand made quality.

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

It makes one appreciate the Travasaks that some us got before they went under, or got bought out, whatever it was. We thought they were expensive then, but compared to Superbags now they were a bargain.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by booster

Most are assuming it is 17.7 or so", but I don't think anyone has ever seen a new one, and the used ones are shorter than that as they settle quite a bit. The Tufftruck spring was speced at 17.7", and were snug into the pocket, so the factory ones would likely be around that or a bit shorter, I think.

Ok, thanks for that.

Originally Posted by booster

A set of Erb springs showed up on my doorstep today and are about 18.3" tall. They will be going in next week so I hope to have some real trim height numbers and our corner weights by a while after that.

What are the specs on the new springs?

Please measure the snubber & wheel well heights before & after the new springs go in.

Originally Posted by booster

Also remember that with all the wheel offset you have compared to stock, the spring to wheel centerline ratio is going to be significantly different compared to what the rest of us have. This will have an affect on the ride height and comfort you get from any spring.

I think that I posted this before, but the new wheel offset is zero vs the stock 28, better than the AR23s but only by 6mm. Regardless of the offset I can't see how it would effect the ride height in any major way- 28 mm = 1.1 inch and won't induce that much leverage over stock- well, seems that way to me as the hub's place in space remains the same.

Did everyone switch to stock steel wheels?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Ok, thanks for that.



What are the specs on the new springs?

Please measure the snubber & wheel well heights before & after the new springs go in.



I think that I posted this before, but the new wheel offset is zero vs the stock -28, better than the AR23s but only by 6mm. Regardless of the offset I can't see how it would effect the ride height in any major way- 28 mm = 1.1 inch and won't induce that much leverage over stock- well, seems that way to me as the hub's place in space remains the same.

Did everyone switch to stock steel wheels?

I haven't had a chance to measure accurately, and Erb didn't give spring rates, but they look roughly to the 18.3 tall, 1.00 wire, stock outside diameter of about 6", one end closed and ground, the other end slightly open but flat over 1/2 of it, probably 5 or 6 active coils, they are wound to be progressive it appears.

Snubber location is relatively unimportant and very hard to reliably measure anyway. It isn't at the frame, body or wheel position so not worth the effort. Trim height it the important measurement as it takes all the variables like tires and wheel diameters and such and body oddness out of the picture. It is the measure from the lower control arm pivot to the bottom of the lower balljoint casting. Wheelwell height is somewhat valid, but it is affected by wheel/tire diameter and body location on the frame. I will be measuring wheelwell height before and after, but only for reference.

I know you posted the offset before, but that is not the true offset for trim height. The front hubs are brought out on the lift knuckle so they only see the wheel offset change, but the knuckle itself must be offset 2" compared to stock if you need a 2" spacer in the rear to line up the wheels with the front. That means you will somewhere around 3 1/8" more leverage on the spring pocket in the lower control arm, which is what determines the actual load put onto the spring. That is a lot of offset to add. The rear springs and shocks will also see that much, but on the solid axle it will only affect one wheel bump spring and shock rates.

The links I gave before contain all the wheels available with the correct offset, but the Cliff's notes version is that the stock steel wheels will work for up the stock 245-75-16 tires but not bigger, the right offset version of GM pickup truck aluminum wheels will also work to the 245-75-16 tire size only. The only wheel we found that will allow a 265-75-16 tire and is the correct offset is a steel pickup wheel that is 1/2" wider than the stock Express wheel. The part numbers and models years were all listed in the other threads if we were able to find the callouts on them. There were also pix of them all posted.

We have the wider steel wheels with 265-75-16 tires at the correct offset. Others have done the stock steel wheels or the pickup aluminum ones with the stock tire size. All have worked out well as far as I have heard.

on edit, I did some quick calcs off the old measurements we had from the Photog thread. 9" to spring center, 21" to wheel centerline, 2.33 ration, about 2100# on the tire gives 4800# at the spring. go to 24.125 to the wheel center and you get 2.65 ratio, 5500# on the spring which is 700# more springload, an 1800#/in spring would go down about 3/8" at the spring center which would be about 1 inch at the wheel centerline. this would be how much 3.125" extra offset could lower you back down from stock offset, if I did the calcs correctly.

[Hondo]

Well, the rear wheel spacers move the rear wheels outward to increase the track because this is a 210 with the widebody -it's wider than a standard RT. I did not install them to compensate for the front (a bit wider due to the lift knuckle) but to move the tires and wheels out to the wheelwell edge. Before they were tucked in some but now they are close to flush. This 210 also has completely new leaf springs with additional lift and Bilstiens at each corner.

As far as the bump stop/snubber are concerned, IMO it is very important that the vehicle not be resting on the stops. As I said before anytime the RT hits a substantial rise the vehicle is jolted and pushed in the opposite direction. The only way to alleviate this tendency is to increase the spring lift in order to move the lower control arm away from the stop.

I also understand what you guys went through using stock steering knukcles, wheels and taller springs. I am in different territory here as I'm using the same lifted knuckles as Photog but he's disappeared so no joy but for what he has posted in the past.

As my 210 sits right now it needs the bump stop issue to be solved using the tire & wheel combination that I have. I'll be taking it to the Denver spring shop to have it evaluated there and to listen to their suggestions. Boulder Offroad & I are also looking at all of the spring data that we can find and are contemplating a set of stock diesel springs from a newer 3500 that they lifted.

Adding an additional amount of spring lift will probably solve the issue, the question that is so elusive is how much spring to use to solve this problem.

[booster]

Here is a link to all the wheel availability and pictures.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...hevy-1985.html

AFAIK these are the only options for getting to the factory offset wheels.

[Hondo]

I'll be doing everything I can to maintain the current combo but if I'll be keeping an eye out for an aluminum set on Craiglist- thanks!

[Hondo]

Booster-

with the 16X7 steel wheel, did the 265 75R-16 fit in the front?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Booster-

with the 16X7 steel wheel, did the 265 75R-16 fit in the front?

Yes they did on ours. We are lifted the 2" like others that have used these wheels also, so I am not certain they would fit without being higher.

[Deano]

The 265/75X16 tires on Chevy 16X7" wheels on my 2005 RT 210 Pop on a 2004 Chevy chassis fit just fine.
Mine is not lifted.

[Hondo]

Deano- which 16 X 7 wheels are you using?

[Deano]

Just from one source, others I found are less expensive.

STL5198 Sierra, Silverado, Suburban, Yukon Wheel Steel #9595221

The pic is one on the front of my RT

These are the ones Booster uses.

Thanks to Booster, saved me a lot of research.

[AZ ADVenturist]

Our rims on G3500 are identical to pictured, but 16x6.5. W/245 Bridgestons Can we use 265 tires on 6.5" whls? If not what are other options?
Thnx.

[booster]

Originally Posted by AZ ADVenturist

Our rims on G3500 are identical to pictured, but 16x6.5. W/245 Bridgestons Can we use 265 tires on 6.5" whls? If not what are other options?
Thnx.

The Express stock steel wheels look very similar to the pic but are not the same width.

Take a look and see how many cut outs you have in yours. Stock ones have 5 openings and the ones in the pic that are wider have 6 openings and scallops between the openings.

From what we found in the past, the only option was the one steel pickup wheel, if you want to go to the 265-75-16 tires and still have the correct offset. The only wheel we don't have specs on is the new aluminum wheel that Roadtrek is using now. It may be wider as most of the aluminum ones are, but someone would have to measure the offset on one, if Roadtrek won't tell you.

[Deano]

And, 265/75X16 require a 7" minimum width wheel.
I just did another search on Tire Rack, all listed tires larger than 265/75X16 require a 7" min. wheel width or wider.

[AZ ADVenturist]

Booster & Dean; was easy to count opening on our whls. You are correct - 5!
And the rims as well as door label both state 16x6.5.
So, now I can spend another $400++ for 16x7" rims Or stop dreaming about upgrades for the R/T.
OR - maybe even use the American Racing aluminum whls I took off our '02 (& still have - the whls not the old R/T!) when I spent all that money when I tried to upgrade suspension & tires.
Or, Deano - what other sources did you find for the whls you bought?
Well anyway, thanks for all the good insight into the mysteries of RoadTrek &
Chevrolet in particular.
Regards, Ric.

[Deano]

Copy and paste the link:
STL5198 Sierra, Silverado, Suburban, Yukon Wheel Steel #9595221

I just checked and the outfit that had the best price yesterday is now out of stock. I'm guessing others watching this thread may be the reason why.

As for the aluminum wheels that RT put on mine, not only were they "0" offset, they were NOT hub centric.

[Hondo]

Today I went to Denver Spring to have the RT evaluated after a telephone call.

The main guy there said he can have springs made for a reasonable price if needed. After driving it he said that the 2 in wide rear wheel spacers that I installed were probably the reason for the wishy washy feeling and that the front suspension seemed alright, just reacting to the rear suspension.

He also thinks that the standard wheel alignment is probably not going to work with this lift and agreed with me that a Roadmaster steering damper should be installed to counter the bump steer.

So I went home and removed the rear spacers and it was a very big improvement in the driving behavior. It still felt like the lower control arms might be getting close to maximum compression but I was assured that they were not maxed out completely as that would sound like control arm was being hit by a sledgehammer.

Tomorrow I'll be talking to them again to discuss the next steps to stabilize the RT 210. It's good to hear that he thinks it might not require new springs or other hardware changes. He also agreed that a rear sway bar would help and will be looking into that without moving the genset further aft.

I'm also going to take some GoPro video of the suspension over some whoops, see what it's really doing.

I'll report back when I find out more.