Hondo's 2006 Roadtrek 210 Popular Build

[Hondo]

I took the Roadtrek to Westfest in Steamboat Springs (MC Rally) this weekend and learned how to get around in it.

Here are a few pics on my way home, my KLX450R on the back-

[Hondo]

I installed a Derale Fluid Thermostat to help control the transmission fluid temp. The thermostat will bypass the transmission cooler until the fluid reaches 180F at which point it will fully open allowing maximum cooling.

This allows for a faster warmup and more stable temps. After installation the temps were much more consistent, varying between 175F & 185F.

Before -



And after -

[Hondo]

Stability update-

It was the tires. Discount Tire swapped the tires front to rear and the high speed wandering disappeared. Both front tires replaced and now it tracks straight ahead, no wandering.

On order is a Roadmaster Steering Stabilizer to further calm things down at speed.

[cruising7388]

You've done a great job getting that coach into a healthy conditions. Congratulations!

I'm familiar with the transfer relay issue. Everybody knows what a transfer relay is but surprisingly few folks know that it's a DC device, not an AC device. The generator AC supplies 120VAC to the transfer switch control PCB which rectifies it to 120VDC because the relay winding is a DC winding. They do it that way because employing an AC winding invariably produces an audible and annoying hum. That module also incorporates a delay function that permits the generator to come up to speed and stabilize before the transfer relay energizes.

It's unfortunate that lots of these switches and box are replaced when replacing a one dollar rectifier or a capacitor on the control module would restore the module to its normal operation. If you have a friend that is electrically savvy, that board can be fixed providing you with a functional spare relay.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

You've done a great job getting that coach into a healthy conditions. Congratulations!

I'm familiar with the transfer relay issue. Everybody knows what a transfer relay is but surprisingly few folks know that it's a DC device, not an AC device. The generator AC supplies 120VAC to the transfer switch control PCB which rectifies it to 120VDC because the relay winding is a DC winding. They do it that way because employing an AC winding invariably produces an audible and annoying hum. That module also incorporates a delay function that permits the generator to come up to speed and stabilize before the transfer relay energizes.

It's unfortunate that lots of these switches and box are replaced when replacing a one dollar rectifier or a capacitor on the control module would restore the module to its normal operation. If you have a friend that is electrically savvy, that board can be fixed providing you with a functional spare relay.

If I knew which component had failed that might be an option, but there's nothing burned up on that board/no apparent failure. I could send it in for diagnosis & repair but that's probably not economically feasable.

[cruising7388]

Did you have to use a hitch tongue extender to clear the spare?

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Did you have to use a hitch tongue extender to clear the spare?

Yeah, a very beefy one.

Future project is adding a 2nd receiver to the Class IV hitch to eliminate sway, spread the load and strengthen the MC carrier.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Hondo

If I knew which component had failed that might be an option, but there's nothing burned up on that board/no apparent failure. I could send it in for diagnosis & repair but that's probably not economically feasable.

Agree, it wouldn't be cost effective to have a commercial shop do that. I was thinking more like a local ham radio operator.

Something I forgot to mention regarding these puppies. When going from shore side to generator support or visa versa, first shed the loads which will substantially lengthen the life of the relay contacts.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Yeah, a very beefy one.

Future project is adding a 2nd receiver to the Class IV hitch to eliminate sway, spread the load and strengthen the MC carrier.

LOL! Faced with that same issue, rather than messing with welding or bolting additional support, we dealt with it by stuffing the spare under the bed and using the spare tire hitch as the second receiver for the carrier.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

LOL! Faced with that same issue, rather than messing with welding or bolting additional support, we dealt with it by stuffing the spare under the bed and using the spare tire hitch as the second receiver for the carrier.

That's not going to happen.

Welding mods are cheap & easy enough right in my driveway. I need the storage space. I had a dual receiver hitch setup on a Jamboree I used to own and it was (still is) strong enough for most any bike I dared to put on it-



KLX 450R, about 280 lbs-



1982 Honda CT110, my go-to light weight camping bike-

[Deano]

Originally Posted by Hondo

I had planned on this and ordered a set of steel 2 inch wheel spacers from Wheel Adapter.com for the rear axle of the Roadtrek.
This would increase stability and move the rear wheels/tires out 2 inches per side, something needed due to the widebody side walls of the coach and the wider front track.
Here's a spacer installed -

Great find and good job of upgrading.
Now, having said that, with the wide offset wheels and additional spacers, expect to have wheel bearing failures.

[Deano]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

LOL! Faced with that same issue, rather than messing with welding or bolting additional support, we dealt with it by stuffing the spare under the bed and using the spare tire hitch as the second receiver for the carrier.

As did Hondo, I upgraded to 265/75X16 tires. I found out they won't fit in the space under the bed without modifying the bulkhead.

[Hondo]

We shall see, many reports around the web don't support that spacer theory.

The new wheels have less offset than the American Racing AR23s that they replaced- only 6mm less but still less, so that reduces stress a bit.

[booster]

Welcome to the forum, always glad to see what everyone is up to in modifications.

Just a few comments, and questions.

Have you been to the scales yet? 210s tend to have very little load capacity in stock form, some have found as low as under 500#.

The lift spindles may keep you from getting the handling really good, as they mess up the OEM suspension geometry. You can get about 2.5" of lift with a spring change in the front, which I personally prefer. If you still have the stock springs in the front, it is likely that you are right down on the bump stop which can cause handling issues like pitching on bumps. Chevies can be made to handle really well with the right parts and should not need a steering stabilize if the rest is right with the world. IMO, the most important thing to do is put in a big rear swaybar, but you would have to move the genny back a couple of inches or build a custom one like we did.

I don't know which rear axle you have, but you may want to check if it is a full floater or semi-floater (70s or 60s Dana), but maybe an American axle version. The semi floaters, especially the Dana tend to run very hot at the axle ends, enough to raise the tire temps and pressures more than most would like. If it is a full floater, the axle ends will run about the same as the front tires. Putting hub spacers on will just make the problem worse due to more load on the outboard, single, bearings. A clue would be if it didn't have the trailer tow package, which was a trans cooler and locking full floater axle, you would have semi-floater.

Did you remove the trans cooler lines from the radiator tank when you put on the standalone cooler? If you did, that will not be anywhere near enough cooler capacity from what we have learned. The Chevy transmissions in Roadtreks tend to run very hot on long climbs, and to a lesser degree in traffic. The trans will stay OK until the water temp climbs above thermostat setpoint of about 195*, and then will track the water temp, even with a smallish add on cooler and through the radiator tank. It is not unusual to see 240* in the mountains for both, according to reports we have seen.

It will be interesting to see how you do with an electric fan replacement for the mechanical clutch fan. We have two of the highest output Spal fans that will fit, in front of the radiator, and the clutch fan behind, and we still could get into high temps for both the water and trans, but nearly as bad as before. The fact that the overtemps will happen at higher speeds would normally indicate an airflow shortage, and things like the very large amounts of openings around the radiator that allow air bypass, and the restrictive Chevy grille seem to contribute to that. The folks that tow heavy usually will go with a unclutched, high output, mechanical fan and standalone oil and trans coolers with their own fans on them. Personally, I have never seen an electric setup that would outperform mechanical ones, but they could be out there.

Good luck with your new to you van, it looks like fun!

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

We shall see, many reports around the web don't support that spacer theory.

The new wheels have less offset than the American Racing AR23s that they replaced- only 6mm less but still less, so that reduces stress a bit.

The original OEM wheels would have had a -28 offset, so you didn't really change much with your offset change, and if you put spacers on it will be way more than the 1 3/8" too negative the AR wheels gave. We definitely saw an improvement in hub temps, both front and rear, with the correct offset wheels. You will also change the one wheel bump dynamics of the rear, as there will be more leverage on the spring and shock, which can cause overtravel up induced rocking. The front hubs have been a problem for some of us so they really don't need any more load on them. The rear doesn't seem to eat the outboard bearings, but they do run very hot in a semi-floater, as mentioned earlier. The Full floater would do much better for temp, but the bump issues would be the same. Taking some tire and hub temps may be something you would want to do, especially if you going to put more load on the rear, especially.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by booster

Welcome to the forum, always glad to see what everyone is up to in modifications.

Just a few comments, and questions.

Have you been to the scales yet? 210s tend to have very little load capacity in stock form, some have found as low as under 500#.

Yes, it was weighed when I bought it. I don't plan on carrying much weight inside but rather using it more as a tow vehicle occasionally and maybe a bike on the back. It has a 9600 lb GVWR, weighed in at 8,500 lbs with full fuel & water.

Originally Posted by booster

The lift spindles may keep you from getting the handling really good, as they mess up the OEM suspension geometry. You can get about 2.5" of lift with a spring change in the front, which I personally prefer. If you still have the stock springs in the front, it is likely that you are right down on the bump stop which can cause handling issues like pitching on bumps. Chevies can be made to handle really well with the right parts and should not need a steering stabilize if the rest is right with the world. IMO, the most important thing to do is put in a big rear swaybar, but you would have to move the genny back a couple of inches or build a custom one like we did.

I discussed this with Boulder Offroad and was told that different springs or pucks were unnecessary. As it sits now at rest the jounce bumpers are 1/8 of an inch from the lower control arm. It does pich when it hits the stop...hmmm, didn't realize this.

Originally Posted by booster

I don't know which rear axle you have, but you may want to check if it is a full floater or semi-floater (70s or 60s Dana), but maybe an American axle version. The semi floaters, especially the Dana tend to run very hot at the axle ends, enough to raise the tire temps and pressures more than most would like. If it is a full floater, the axle ends will run about the same as the front tires. Putting hub spacers on will just make the problem worse due to more load on the outboard, single, bearings. A clue would be if it didn't have the trailer tow package, which was a trans cooler and locking full floater axle, you would have semi-floater.

It didn't have a transmission cooler from the factory but does have the Class IV hitch.

Originally Posted by booster

Did you remove the trans cooler lines from the radiator tank when you put on the standalone cooler? If you did, that will not be anywhere near enough cooler capacity from what we have learned. The Chevy transmissions in Roadtreks tend to run very hot on long climbs, and to a lesser degree in traffic. The trans will stay OK until the water temp climbs above thermostat setpoint of about 195*, and then will track the water temp, even with a smallish add on cooler and through the radiator tank. It is not unusual to see 240* in the mountains for both, according to reports we have seen.

I installed the additional cooler between the radiator and the transmission- it was not bypassed. Maximum temps seen on my trip through the Rockies (last weekend) was 203 as monitored with a Scanguage 2. The cooler installed was the largest available and is more than enough for this vehicle. Pulling hard through the swell (I-70 in Utah) in the summer would max out any system but I monitor the temp constantly and if I see an overtemp I'd just take a break at 225F..

Originally Posted by booster

It will be interesting to see how you do with an electric fan replacement for the mechanical clutch fan. We have two of the highest output Spal fans that will fit, in front of the radiator, and the clutch fan behind, and we still could get into high temps for both the water and trans, but nearly as bad as before. The fact that the overtemps will happen at higher speeds would normally indicate an airflow shortage, and things like the very large amounts of openings around the radiator that allow air bypass, and the restrictive Chevy grille seem to contribute to that. The folks that tow heavy usually will go with a unclutched, high output, mechanical fan and standalone oil and trans coolers with their own fans on them. Personally, I have never seen an electric setup that would outperform mechanical ones, but they could be out there.

I have a dual fan setup that I purchased from a vendor on ebay. It should easily outperform the viscous clutch fan, again we shall see.

Originally Posted by booster

Good luck with your new to you van, it looks like fun!

Thanks!

Gotta look into the jounce bumper issue. Adding 1 inch pucks will add lift and will require 1 inch taller blocks in the back. I'll call Boulder Offroad next week.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by booster

The original OEM wheels would have had a -28 offset, so you didn't really change much with your offset change, and if you put spacers on it will be way more than the 1 3/8" too negative the AR wheels gave. We definitely saw an improvement in hub temps, both front and rear, with the correct offset wheels. You will also change the one wheel bump dynamics of the rear, as there will be more leverage on the spring and shock, which can cause overtravel up induced rocking. The front hubs have been a problem for some of us so they really don't need any more load on them. The rear doesn't seem to eat the outboard bearings, but they do run very hot in a semi-floater, as mentioned earlier. The Full floater would do much better for temp, but the bump issues would be the same. Taking some tire and hub temps may be something you would want to do, especially if you going to put more load on the rear, especially.

Rocking is reduced by the airlift springs, still experimenting with different pressures. To be honest the rear feels sorted out but it's the front end and it's "pitching" over bumps that has me most concerned.

I'll look at my axle to see which one I have- reading your axle thread.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Rocking is ruduced by the airlift springs, still experimenting with different pressures. To be honest the rear feels sorted out but it's the front end and it's "pitching" over bumps that has me most concerned.

Is there an easy way to ID what rear end is on the 210?

The Airlift will allow you to get off the heavy rear overload leaf, but actually will soften the rear ride when you are off that leaf, which is extremely high rate. You need to be way off the rear overload to prevent hitting it, probably at least an inch. The extra offset from the spring and bags will only show up on one wheel bumps, and will be as extra travel of the suspension on that side, which will also make for a bigger lowering of the body on that side. The shocks may have trouble damping that much.

Just take of a rear wheel and look. If it is a full floater, the hub will stick through the wheel and have 8 bolts around it. A semi-floater will be flush with the wheel center.

On thing you will find is that the squirrelly front handling is being caused to a large part by the rear suspension. No sway bar and weak shocks, plus more rocking from wind or offset will induce understeer in the front, requiring big steering corrections due to more direction change.

I would not put pucks in the front to fix what is really a too short, too low rate, spring that is not up to the job, and if you use spacers to keep the front and rear track the same, it will be worse with the increased load on the spring, but that is just my opinion.

I don't know that we have seen a 210 that was that light unless totally unloaded, but maybe if totally empty of everything else. Did you have any people in it?

[Hondo]

Ok, I can already tell you that the rear hub doesn't have the bolts, you can see it in this pic-



I could do a rear sway bar after moving the genset aft, something that is on the to-do list now.

As far as shocks go, all new Bilstiens are installed. So what to do is the question. I don't want to have the front end jouncing me, it's really unnerving at speed, and it needs to be corrected.

Installing higher rate springs will increase the lift, correct? I could do that to correct the jounce problem, then I'd have to increase the rear lift as well. I would think that 1 inch additional would be the most that I'd want to do - your opinion?

[Hondo]

Also, the leaf springs are new & a higher capacity - not stock.

As far as the weight goes, that was without anyone inside and IIRC full fuel and water in both tanks. The slip shows 3,540 front, 5020 rear and 8,560 total. you could add 300 lbs for water if it was empty.

GAWR 6084 lbs, GAWF 4,300 lbs