Hondo's 2006 Roadtrek 210 Popular Build

[Hondo]

Yeah, that's getting in a bit too deep for me. I know that I can setup the Sanguage to show % of speed according to tire size increase but it won't program the tune/ecu.

For that I'll need a Tuner app like you are using (more complicated that I want) or go with a compact tuner that I can load a tune into and change things in the ECU for any installed tune (lights, tire size, ect).

So I'm looking at the Bully Dog GT Gas to make the changes I need right away, and I should be able to create custom tunes on the PC app and upload those if I want to did deeper.

Still researching.

[Hondo]

Ordered a Bully Dog GT Gas tuner today-



I'll be able to reprogram a lot of parameters including the new axle ratio and tire size as well as load and use up to 10 custom tunes to the ECU. Right now they are on sale at Auto Anything- I got a $64 discount and there is also a $45 rebate for a total shipped price of $363.60.

Not as customizable as some other tuners but I will be able to load 10 different tunes for towing. cruising/economy, ect.

My Scangauge II will be up for sale soon....

[Hondo]

Listed the Dana 60S on Craigslist and sold it today for $300 to a group that needed it for their business (carpet installation) Express Van who rear end was shot.

They got a good deal on a direct swap axle (they have a 60S in the van) and will be upgrading to a 4.10 ratio....warned them about the speedo.

So after the sale of the 60 my outlay for the 70S ($525 including shipping) comes out to $225 and that's not bad for a posi upgrade

[Hondo]

Installed the Bully Dog GT Gas and used the "Performance" profile with stock shifting firmness and shift points. It drives very nice and seems to accelerate better. I'll be playing with this more over time, researching what the other profiles (stock/economy/towing) really do.

That leaves me with a Scangauge II that i no longer need, so it's up for sale-



Here's a listing at Amazon-

https://www.amazon.com/ScanGauge-Aut...ds=scangauge+2

Official info HERE

Yours for $100

[Hondo]

I went out and took a few pics of the Bully Dog GT installed-



Need to make a better mount-



The Daytime theme-

[Hondo]

Using the Bully Dog GT I installed the "Performance" tune with stock shift points as well as stock shift firmness. It drove well and after corresponding with BD support will be changing to "Tow" mode for the transmission shift points but keep the firmness at stock. BD told me that using Performance should net about 15 hp and using Regular about 10 hp and about 18 ft lbs of torque.

When installing the tune I selected a new gear ration (3.73) due to the axle swap and also selected a new tire size due to the larger tires. GPS testing showed my speedometer was indicating about 2 mph slow at all speeds and that's acceptable to me.

[booster]

As with any changes like this, I would recommend getting a look at what is going on, if possible. If your Bully Dog has it available, one of the most useful readouts would be "knock retard" which is built into the GM system. In stock form, on a heavy Roadtrek, with the non VVT 6.0 gas engine, we see a couple of degrees of knock retard right at the 1-2 shift, but not really anyplace else, when running 87 octane fuel. We got a load of 85 octane on our last trip and found that we were getting knock retard on lots of other places as well, such as steep climbs, which IMO is too much. Having it close the threshold is like it is with the 87 octane is fine with me, but not longer term and under heavier loads. Some of the adaptive learning stuff may help reduce it as it collects data over time, but I was not willing to wait and put in some premium as soon as I could to balance it out. The owners manual does state no lower than 87 octane.

The GM program has a changeable parameter for high octane and low octane that I can see in the HPTuner software, which goes to two different spark advance tables. They are mostly different at the high load areas, which would be expected. There is no trigger point shown, so they are probably using a sliding scale between the two tables based on what the knock sensors show. How long it takes to adjust to a change in gas is totally unkown. It looks to be an updated version of the decades old system GM has used so they could advertise engines using regular for sales purposes, but would recommend using higher octanes. Many of those vehicles would give a couple of hit ping each time you stepped on the gas, and they never seemed to learn not to. Unnoticed, silent, detonation can be kind of hard on things over the long term, especially if it happens under high load conditions.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by booster

We got a load of 85 octane on our last trip and found that we were getting knock retard on lots of other places as well, such as steep climbs, which IMO is too much.

I noticed 85 octane was the Regular gas in several places during our trip out west last summer. I used the 85 and could not detect any problems with engine performance. Mileage was OK too.

A quick web search shows some saying 85 is OK at higher altitudes. Others say you should strictly stick with 87 if that is what the manual states.

[booster]

Originally Posted by peteco

I noticed 85 octane was the Regular gas in several places during our trip out west last summer. I used the 85 and could not detect any problems with engine performance. Mileage was OK too.

A quick web search shows some saying 85 is OK at higher altitudes. Others say you should strictly stick with 87 if that is what the manual states.

I am not surprised you couldn't detect the knock, as we couldn't hear iteither. It showed up on the knock retard (KR) gauge on the Scangauge. As mentioned, the detonation you don't know about is often worse than what you hear, as when you hear it you just back off the throttle. We were on rolling hills, so it came and went, but if we had been on long, high output, climb it probably would have been continuous. I was very surprised that two points of octane would make that much difference.

[Davydd]

I've only seen 85 octane in mountainous states in the west. So, it may he a high altitude blend. It is unheard of in the Midwest and I've never seen it in the south and east.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by booster

As with any changes like this, I would recommend getting a look at what is going on, if possible. If your Bully Dog has it available, one of the most useful readouts would be "knock retard" which is built into the GM system. In stock form, on a heavy Roadtrek, with the non VVT 6.0 gas engine, we see a couple of degrees of knock retard right at the 1-2 shift, but not really anyplace else, when running 87 octane fuel. We got a load of 85 octane on our last trip and found that we were getting knock retard on lots of other places as well, such as steep climbs, which IMO is too much. Having it close the threshold is like it is with the 87 octane is fine with me, but not longer term and under heavier loads. Some of the adaptive learning stuff may help reduce it as it collects data over time, but I was not willing to wait and put in some premium as soon as I could to balance it out. The owners manual does state no lower than 87 octane.

The GM program has a changeable parameter for high octane and low octane that I can see in the HPTuner software, which goes to two different spark advance tables. They are mostly different at the high load areas, which would be expected. There is no trigger point shown, so they are probably using a sliding scale between the two tables based on what the knock sensors show. How long it takes to adjust to a change in gas is totally unkown. It looks to be an updated version of the decades old system GM has used so they could advertise engines using regular for sales purposes, but would recommend using higher octanes. Many of those vehicles would give a couple of hit ping each time you stepped on the gas, and they never seemed to learn not to. Unnoticed, silent, detonation can be kind of hard on things over the long term, especially if it happens under high load conditions.

The BD has ignition timing & TPS readout, but I din't recall seeing a knock option to display or change.

When you are installing a tune you can choose between regular and premium fuel as the tunes are written for those octanes. I have read that other users have used the Premium selection using regular gas and that might work in the flat but probably not in the mountains or towing a large load.

I selected the regular option but will be trying the premium one later today & see how it goes.

[Hondo]

Due to the higher elevations the normal fuel grades available here in Denver are 85, 87 and 91 as more than that isn't needed.

Add some thicker sea level air and that's when you need the higher octane.

My 2007 Avalanche has the eco 5.3 engine and while you can use 85 octane it clearly states that it will reduce mpg so I run 87 in it or 89 if I'm towing a trailer.

[Hondo]

Took the Roadtrek 210 out into the snow today to test it's abilities with the limited slip Dana 70 and the BF Goodrich tires, it was great in the snow!

[Phoebe3]

Nothing like feeling safe behind the wheel! Glad it's working out!

[Hondo]

Yesterday I flushed the cooling system, replaced the upper & lower radiator hoses and the main serpentine & A/C belts.

Once the upper shroud was removed it was an easy operation. The bracket that holds the dipstick tubes needed to have it's securing bolt removed in order to allow the tubes to be slightly moved to the left to allow the upper shroud to be removed.

[Hondo]

Made a small bracket from a steel strap to mount the Bull Dog GT Gas.

It's clipped onto the post cover and secured inside with 5 minute JB weld. I used velcro to hold the tuner to the mount-

here it is before with the windshield mount-



and the new mount-

[Mat Mobile]

Hondo, I just read on this post that you will be converting to 4x4 IFS. Who will be doing the conversion for you and/or providing parts?

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by Mat Mobile

Hondo, I just read on this post that you will be converting to 4x4 IFS. Who will be doing the conversion for you and/or providing parts?

I'm taking a trip to Utah / Grand Canyon / New Mexico next week, going to stop by Advanced 4X4 in SLC and talk to them about their torsion bar IFS conversion.

Yesterday I spoke at length with Jeremy of WeldTech (great guy) about their coil over IFS conversion but it's pricier.

[Mat Mobile]

Originally Posted by Hondo

I'm taking a trip to Utah / Grand Canyon / New Mexico next week, going to stop by Advanced 4X4 in SLC and talk to them about their torsion bar IFS conversion.

Yesterday I spoke at length with Jeremy of WeldTech (great guy) about their coil over IFS conversion but it's pricier.

I did not know they did torsion bar conversions! Please keep us posted.

My Weldtec kit is going in next week... It's been postponed 2 times because we're waiting for the rear swaybar. I can't wait!!!

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Hondo

I'm taking a trip to Utah / Grand Canyon / New Mexico next week, going to stop by Advanced 4X4 in SLC and talk to them about their torsion bar IFS conversion.

Yesterday I spoke at length with Jeremy of WeldTech (great guy) about their coil over IFS conversion but it's pricier.

What's your take on this shop for 4WD conversions? They're in Red Bluff, CA.

https://whitefeather4x4conversions.com/