Greasing Chevy sealed wheel bearings

[booster]

I think you may be misinterpreting some of what was said here, at least if it was referring to stuff the I have said.

I am a huge fan of tapered roller bearing setups like were normal in the past. Plainly, the new hubs suck, but when compared to the old setup that wanted maintenance (that was rarely done) every 10K miles, customers like them because they don't have to think about them until they fail. I would think the newer greases would take a tapered system to 40-50K service interval.

I am not a supporter of "never fill a bearing full of grease" crowd, that has been a big push in the industrial area for about 10-15 years. We found it only to apply to high speed bearings where bearing speed and heat were issues. It is especially not true on bearings with shields.

I am also not a supporter of "always fill a bearing full of grease" crowd, which is what 98% of most maintenance mechanics do, although most of the time they are right.

I am a supporter of the "grease a bearing in a matter that is correct for its design and use".

Note is that when I say bearing, I mean bearing with housing assembly, like a pillow block, or a wheel hub. I don't mean the stand alone bearing itself which should always be taken full, or nearly full of grease.

In my previous life before retirement, I spent many hours talking with the bearing designers (not the marketing guys that want the failures), field service engineers, etc from Timken, SKF, and other bearing manufacturers.

There are several factors that would, to me, indicate that it is best in a wheel hub to limit the amount of grease put into the hub AS LONG AS YOU CAN GET THE GREASE INTO THE BEARING ADEQUATELY. I think this is what folks miss in what was being said. In my case, I made a 90 degree head for the grease gun the squirts far enough to get grease to the bearings. I also blow any grease that is sitting outside the bearing into it with compressed air. If you don't do something like this, the only way to get grease to the bearings is to fill the hub, so I am not saying never do it, only that I think it doesn't need to be done.

The main problem with hubs is that they are not designed to be greased (imagine that ), so greasing them is not a simple task.

Bearings that are designed to be filled with grease regularly are made considerably differently than bearings that are not meant to be greased or are meant for limited greasing volumes. Bearings that are meant to be filled are usually used in dirty or wet areas, and the main reason to make them greaseable is to purge contamination. Renewing the lubricant comes in a far second when extending life in them, especially with todays better greases. Grease full bearings that are designed for pumping in new grease will always have shields on them, not seals. The manufacturers have played some games with the terminology lately, so you have to be careful, as some with different designs of what are really shields will call them self bleeding seals or some other jibberish, because folks have gotten scared of shields do to contamination (which wouldn't happen if they greased them correctly). Contamination will nearly always make it past a shield because the grease is purged there, picks up the contamination, and is then sucked back in when the bearing cools. How far that contamination gets in over time is what determines your greasing schedule, and the amount you put in is easy because on that type of bearing, you put in grease until it comes out clean at the seals. The bearings and housings are also designed to steer excess grease to the shield areas to keep them semi-sealed and to clear the area around the bearing itself to help the bearing cool properly. We found this type of bearing in pillow blocks would run about 20-30 degrees warmer for about 20 minutes before the bled a little grease and cooled down. The bearing design also has a very specific grease path from the zerk that puts the grease through the bearing and to both sides, with no way of picking up the contamination, and steering the grease toward the seals after going through the bearing.

Hubs don't have any of the above features, because the weren't designed to be greased with a grease gun. Also note that the old tapered roller bearing setups were not made to be greased with a gun either, so in reality the systems are the same thing. Both are sealed hubs with the only difference being that you can take apart the old ones. If the new hubs came apart for service, life would be good. In the 50s-70s I saw quite a few older systems modified for a grease fitting in the middle, and they did not work well at all.

By all accounts, any greasing seems to greatly increase the life of the sealed hub bearings, so filling the cavity isn't the end of the world, it is, at least IMO, just not the best based on the hub designs.

There are a couple of issues that the design of them cause if they are filled with grease every time. The heat issue is the prime one you hear about the most. Second, I think, would be that if you get bleeding out the seal of the hub, you have two things bad that can happen. The most obvious is that the grease that comes out could get on the brakes. This was a pretty common thing in the old systems when the inner seal failed. The second is in relation to the previously mentioned "breathing" of the bearing. Sealed hubs are designed to have only a film of oil or grease in seal area, not purging type volumes. The biggest issue with them in dirty environments is that the grease that is purged will pick up dirt, grit, and water, and when the bearing cools it gets pulled back under the seal (which is being held up by the heavy coating of grease-hydroplaning). That grit is right where it needs to be to wear the shaft and seal. Shields bring the grit back on a path that is more open and not on the shaft. A possible third issue is that there will be a dam on grease on the inside of the bearing, a ways inboard, and the side of that grease toward the bearing is going to used, slung, grease. That grease will be what will be pushed into the bearing at the next greasing. Surprisingly, the very high dropping point greases do this worse than stuff that will spread out better, but that is no reason to change for that reason.

So what would I consider to be the very best way to do the greasing? Assuming you can drill holes to insert fittings without getting chips into the bearings (it can be done by putting some compressed air in at the ABS port when you are doing the drilling). The setup would need to have two zerks, one on the tin cover on the inboard, seal side, and the other on the wheel mounting face. You need to position them so that they are in line with the balls, and not the outer or inner race (might be tough on the inside due to the seal, and mounting). With this setup, you would be putting the grease right into the bearing, and pushing though the dirty grease away from the bearing instead of towards it. The ABS hole would let out the air displaced so it would flow easily. I would guess a pump or two per bearing would be plenty with that setup. Sometime in the future, I plan on doing this modification to a hub, but I have to go the junkyard and get a bad one to cut up to determine the hole locations.

Vents on the housings is not a bad idea, especially if you are filling the cavities completely, as they can reduce the leakage and potential problems as the seals. Since to get the benefit, they have to be low restriction both directions. They also need to be contamination proof, like the vent on a differential, which won't work on a rotating hub. Right off hand, I don't know what would work well on a rotating hub.

I have been using Royal Purple grease lately, switched from Amsoil and Mobil (which is what we used on the machinery), as it seemed to stay in the bearings better in older style hubs I have put it in.

An interesting test, with sealed hubs, is to take a piece of copper wire and fish it in past the reluctor wheel to get a sample of the grease, right at the bearing. At only 10K miles, I found the Chevy grease to already be drying out, although it was not discolored badly. The Royal Purple is always dark, so you can't tell much, but it seems to be staying very much the same as when it was put in, at least so far.

[Greaser]

Originally Posted by peteco

I have about 10,000 miles with the Valvoline grease. One hub has 70,000 miles on it. The other has about 20,000 miles on it.

Do you see any problem putting the recommended grease in with the Valvoline?

I'm not one for mixing greases. Synthetic will mix better than others. Being as you only have 8 pumps in the hub, you have a minimal amount of that type of grease. Have you tried searching for the IXL grease? I get it delivered thru NAPA at our garage parts house. NAPA doesnt carry this kind of grease and its a special purchase. I will ask tomorrow too to see where they get it from. Here is their web site. It is IXL G710 grease. I forgot about the "G". G710 Premium All Purpose Grease - IXLOIL
Its from Australia. I will ask tomorrow where we are getting it from in the states.

[Greaser]

Booster.....check out my web site. I am greasing the tapered bearings with a grease gun. You will find it interesting to say the least. Watch the video on the Solution page and it explains everything. I can also do 2wd.

[booster]

I did read the site and look at the videos. The feed through setup on the heavy trucks looks like it works well, and IMO would be very appropriate for the use of heavy loads, lower speeds, and lots of contamination. The use of a feed and outlet makes it a whole lot better in relation to seal damage, to be sure, but it many of the smaller setups I don't think there would be room to do it. Personally, I would also not want to fill the entire center cavity of light duty, higher speed, vehicle, but that is just me.

The unit bearing setups, particularly for the 2WD are totally different because the the bearings on both ends are blind, and you really don't want to put enough grease through a lip seal to bleed everything, IMO.

In the first post, I described the tests I did to check grease to the bearings, and it was relatively easy to get grease to the bearings, and pretty much guaranteed with a little shot of air, there really isn't any reason that I can see that you ever get a better result by filling the cavity. And you still have a cavity full of old grease that you can't purge. If I can easily put the right amount of grease (as in enough) without the, maybe real, issue of added heat, why would I not do it that way? There is a lot of volume in the 2WD hubs, which is a lot of expensive, insulating, grease, with 98% of it just sitting there.

Another thing that everyone needs to be aware of is that the hub temp is an indirect method of checking bearing temperature, which is what you really want to know. If you limit the amount of heat transfer within the hub to it's surface, you can have relatively low hub temps with high bearing temps. The reluctor wheel, in the 2D hubs especially, I am sure is a dandy cooling fan. The bearing guys put thermocouples in the units to be able to test actual bearing temps, which can be very enlightening.

As I said earlier, this is all probably a moot point for the vans we are talking about, as either method is going to increase life enough to make most hubs last as long as anyone has them. Most of the folks seem to get about 80K or so in the 2WD class B Chevies, so if you double it you are pretty much there. I think that is a pretty easy task and both methods will get there.

[Greaser]

Smallest truck I have done is an 89 F150. Did one side with my modification. The other was stock. Ran them until one broke. Guess which one? The side we did was like new yet. This thing is going to set the mudboggers on their ears.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Greaser

Smallest truck I have done is an 89 F150. Did one side with my modification. The other was stock. Ran them until one broke. Guess which one? The side we did was like new yet. This thing is going to set the mudboggers on their ears.

I would have to agree that if you are in water up over the wheels hubs, having them full would be a good thing, as long as you greased again as soon as you got out. Just like on boat trailers.

From what I have read over the years, folks have been greasing the a long time, so it is not really anything all that new. Of course they have been arguing about how much to put in just as long

[CORVAIRWILD]

6 months later, may I resurrect this thread?

I just had a wheel bearing fail on my recently purchased 2002 Suburban. It's a 2wd I purchased last summer in Knoxville Tn, and it had 199,500 1 owner miles. I towed my broken down 1965 Corvair home, and didn't use the Sub after the 30 day transit ran out in August.

My girlfriend and I decided to drive to Florida last month, and what better than a sweet Suburban? So I changed the oil, greased the front end, and noticed a loose RF wheel bearing, so I purchased a new USA Timken from Rock Auto for the same price as a FLAP Korea or who knows where made-guaranteed to fail within the 1st year junk...

We made the 1500 miles trip south, and on the way back, we stopped in Gainesville Florida for the nite, and after a full days rain, we decided to go down the road for dinner. We didn't make it out the driveway and I thot I ran over a traffic cone. I looked underneath, nothing, proceeded a few more feet, the wheel started tugging, so I turned around and barely made it into my parking spot. You guessed it, the loose but quiet wheel bearing was toast!
I can't believe that after a full days drive at 75-80 with no obvious noise, it would be so bad after just a few feet after sitting 24 hours.
Next bad news was that I forgot to bring the Timken bearing, so a $20 cab ride and I bot a FLAP junk bearing for $150, swapped it in the hotel parking lot, and all seems fine for now, until it craps out like all of these overseas bearings seem to do after a year.

I was in a pick a part a few days later in South Carolina, and there was a wheel bearing already unbolted from the knuckle, so I bot it for $15, as it felt really smooth, and at least I would have a spare in case the left one gave up the ghost!

I had some familiarity with sealed wheel bearings as the early model (1960-'64) Corvairs suffer failures of a very difficult to replace rear bearing on the swing axle suspension.

So I didn't think to grease the still good LF bearing, but I did Google the subject, and this forum came up at the top of the list, and I must say, makes great reading! There is a fellow selling a $19 greasing tool on eBay, but I think a needle is more than adequate. I think when I removed the ABS sensor from the dead RF bearing I broke off half the magnet, as there seems to be a piece blocking my view of the toothed wheel. I'll try extract it with my more complete tools back home.

I just thot I'd chime in and let folks know my experience, and I have a video of my travails in the Gainesville parking lot.

[eric1514]

I want that Corvair wagon.

[CORVAIRWILD]

There's always a story behind every car... My friend Billy bot it 30+ years ago from a local Maine junkyard for $100. He stored it and MANY others in the large barn attached to his house for almost 30 years while he raised the kids, and did a serious cosmetic resto a few years ago. It had a bit of rust, but was under 100,000 miles, basically a disgusting worn out typical junker of the day. He did EVERYTHING except sew the seat covers. He had Clarks Corvair sew a Monza bucket seat interior which was not offered in the '61 Lakewood. So it has the sporty bucket seats now instead of a plain plain bench. He painted it in his large wood-heated 1 car garage, pulled the 6 cylinder barrels and freed up the rings, but didn't split the block. Being an early '61, it has the typical crank thunk. Later in the year Chevrolet put in a fractionally larger half bearing shell to load the crank a tad and get rid of the knock. His does "knock" it warm, but it never changes...

I collect Corvairs, and have almost one of every year, including a '62 Rampside. Billy has a few too, and I have a ytube video of his barn, it's quite the tour. I'll post it later as my girlfriend and I are on a road trip, and it's time to hit the road!

This is my recently acquired Arizona '65 Monza, PG auto, was show car, needs a paint now, 95k miles, getting factory A/C and a 4 carb 140hp used engine installed at a friends 1000 miles away. A stripper, 1 speed wipers with no sprayer, just the 110HP engine (this one has-had a holey piston, basic was 95hp, both with twin carbs) and auto trans, otherwise a good looking but plain car. The PO added the '69 Chevelle SS rallyes and BFG's

[eric1514]

Thanks for sharing.

[CORVAIRWILD]

I pulled the cap off the recently acquired junkyard bearing, and there's a another ring below the cap that blocks the view of the rollers. I tryed prying it, it just bends. I'll give it a try when I'm not as pressured with other matters. The I can grease it thru the ABS hole and see what happens

[peteco]

Does anything you see below the cap rotate? If you drilled a hole in the cap and installed a great fitting would that enable greasing the bearing?

[CORVAIRWILD]

The cap came off really easily, I wonder if greasing it thru an installed ZERK would just pop the cap off? And anyways, the ABS opening works fine, and would more evenly distribute the grease IMO

[peteco]

Thanks. It would be nice to be able to grease the hubs without taking the brake assembly off. But the brakes should be serviced regularly anyway so including the hubs at the same time is just a little more work.

[CORVAIRWILD]

I wonder if drilling a small hole just big enuff for a grease needle to be inserted to supply grease past the ring I mentioned. This would be at the outer circumference of the cap. To put the grease directly into the rollers.
When the weather warms up in a few days I'll tinker with it and report back.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by CORVAIRWILD

I wonder if drilling a small hole just big enuff for a grease needle to be inserted to supply grease past the ring I mentioned. This would be at the outer circumference of the cap. To put the grease directly into the rollers.
When the weather warms up in a few days I'll tinker with it and report back.

What about in the middle of the inner "cap"? Could you even get to it, and would it get the grease to the bearings?

[CORVAIRWILD]

I don't like the idea of filling the cavity. I read in another forum that filling the entire cavity leads to heat build up. There was lengthy discussion about grease film and the rest of the grease acting like a heat shield holding in heat. I'll see if I can find that forum. And yes, the cap is totally accessible thru the knuckle, but I'll have to see if the extreme outer circumference where the needle would have to be inserted is accessible, the knuckle may obscure-obstruct that outer portion, and that's where the grease needs to go to get under the rollers, but that would only get grease to the inner rollers, only half the battle.

In fact I think it was at the beginning of this thread that the overgreasing was discussed!

Yup, see page 2, 1st post, by booster... great informative reading!

[booster]

I also cut apart a failed bearing assembly I took off our van. You can force grease from inside the cavity out at the area you are looking at with the cap off, so grease will go through the seal in that area. I did it by putting grease in through the ABS hole and then pressurizing it a little with air. Not sure if it will go the other way, though.

But, there is a second bearing on the outside of the assembly that mounts blind against the wheel locating (inside) of the material surface. There is no way to get grease through that bearing unless you drill the wheel mounting surface with a vent or for a zerk.

I have been going to get a junk yard bearing and put a zerk through the cover you have off, which is easy and through the wheel mounting face, hopefully there is enough material to recess it, if not it will have to be a plug that gets removed.

I will then mill a big window in the middle of the assembly so I can see if the grease gets through both bearings. This has been one of those projects that had been planned for a long time, but not gotten too.

I would say that if anyone has an extra hub assembly they don't want, I would take it.

[CORVAIRWILD]

For the bearing to experiment on, you could buy a cheapy from RockAuto, it's $40 delivered I think. My used one was under $15 Inc tax, and even tho its prolly an overseas throwaway, it's good for an emergency spare. One FLAP, where I bot the new China bearing told me they last a year, when I returned one of the 2 I bot, the friendly clerk told me they seldom come back.

[booster]

Cheapest Rock Auto looks to be $76, so it will have be junk yard, I guess.