Completed the separator upgrade

[booster]

We did get rid of our OEM Roadtrek separator, but decided not to replace it with the Blue Sea version, now available with a manual remote switch. We really have no time, that we can think of, when we need the automatic connection of the separator. Blue Sea makes the same basic unit in a full manual (relay) version also, and since it it about 25% less cost we went with it instead. Both units are bi-stable coil relays, so the coil uses no power except when moving. The relay style uses no power in either position on/off, the separator version uses 40ma, which isn't much either. Our current separator uses about 1.5 amps when activated and runs very hot.

The setup we had consisted of the coil separator (modified with an override off switch in the cab), a knob type manual disconnect on the main wiring, a 200 amp fuse in the 2ga wire from the alternator to the separator, two 80 amp breakers (one in each of the two 4ga wires to the coach batteries), and a big jumper wire to bypass the separator so it could be off while in storage. It was able to do what we want to be able to do, but was a lot of stuff, lots of connections, and the power use when activated was a problem when on solar or in storage. The replacement setup is much simpler and has more capacity for our future battery upgrade needs.

This is the original setup

new sep orig close.jpg

new sep orig breakers.jpg

new sep done no air cln.jpg

This is the new setup. It is just the separator and a one into two fuse block that has a 1/0 cable in and the two 4ga out. The alternator cable is also 1/0 now.

new sep with fuses.jpg

new sep induct pkup.jpg

Only 5 pix allowed? Will continue in another post.

[booster]

The new setup with the air cleaner back in place
new sep with air clnr.jpg

The remote switch is a kind of odd "bump proof" one. It is a two way rocker that has a sliding cover over 1/2 at a time so you can't change the state without moving it. Good idea in general, but don't know if we will like moving the cover all the time. There are two LEDs that come on when the batteries are connected, one on each half of the switch so you get one showing no matter where the cover is.

new sep switch on.jpg

new sep switch off.jpg

For a single piece of equipment, the Blue Sea is able to do all that we could before (except for the auto connect, which we could have gotten, too). It is cockpit controlled on and off, it has a manual connect and disconnect on the unit that can be locked off if wanted (the status shows on the switch when it is manually on at the unit), it uses no power in either state, so we don't need the jumper cable anymore when it is on in storage, the solar will not be wasting power running the separator if we charge the starting battery with it.

Although it is not cheap, it seems to be the best option for those who want to control the coach battery charging off the engine alternator or engine generator, like we do.

[avanti]

Is that the ML-RBS? If so, it is the 24V version of the ML-ACR, which is the item I had Great West use as a master shutoff between our house battery and the Outback inverter. It is a quality product.

Why are you running it at 24V?

[booster]

It is the 12v version, tinned wires, with switch

https://www.bluesea.com/products/770...enoid_-_12V_DC

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

It is the 12v version, tinned wires, with switch

https://www.bluesea.com/products/770...enoid_-_12V_DC

I'm confused. That item does not look like the same thing as the one in your pics. Yours has the yellow manual override switch, and it sure looks like it says "ML-RBS", which is a 24V item:

https://www.bluesea.com/products/770..._-_24V_DC_500A

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

I'm confused. That item does not look like the same thing as the one in your pics. Yours has the yellow manual override switch, and it sure looks like it says "ML-RBS", which is a 24V item:

https://www.bluesea.com/products/770..._-_24V_DC_500A

I think they are still catching up with the website stuff. The RBS probably is just the generic relay itself, and then they add the manual switch on it, and the wired remote switch. The sales brochure also shows the relay with RBS on it.

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/reso...heets/6834.pdf

[markopolo]

No wasted power nice upgrade.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

No wasted power nice upgrade.

I think for us, the no power use is the bonus, particular for the solar charging. The big thing was to get enough capacity for the future, and to get rid of all the excess hardware and connections. I was also able to remove a lot of old wiring from previous tests and installations, so everything is a bit cleaner.

The Cole Hersee relays, rated at 80 amps have the current going through four 10-32 connections on each relay, with the in and out being reduced from 4ga to the 10-32 (.187") ring size. Although they held up OK, it just didn't seem to be a good way to go. We also have 1/2 as many connections from the alternator to the separator and 1/2 as many from the separator to the fuses.

Hopefully, we should see less overall resistance, but I haven't tested the microwave with the setup yet to see how well the voltage holds.

It has been nice to have a relatively quiet time on other things around here, so I can get a jump on the battery increase next winter by finishing the stuff that I can do ahead of time. I also did make the "cardboard" battery dummies like I had for the previous battery box mod, only 4 of them in the Lifeline GC2 size. It appears that I will be able to put all of them in a single row, right behind the axle, if things work as it looks now. I may even go to Discount Steel and pick up some of the materials, as a lot of it can be done ahead of time, as that area is wide open now.

[booster]

I got a chance to do a quick test with the microwave running off the van engine today. It was done with full batteries, which is kind of an odd case in real life, but they had been on charge all night.

We do seem to have a bit less voltage drop in the wiring and separator setup. With the microwave running, we were sending 80ish amps to the coach from the engine, at idle, and it was not taking anything from the batteries. We saw right about at a .5 volt drop from the alternator to the batteries at the 80 amps. With the cool alternator and hood up we had 14.4 at the alternator and 13.9 at the batteries. There are still two of the small circuit breakers at the back end of the tow 4ga wires to the coach, so it may get a bit better with that and the 5' or so that will get cut off the wire length in the future.

These numbers would indicate that the "self limiting" of the less than perfectly designed system may work out, as we will have about 1 volt drop when we approach 200 amps of current, putting maybe 13 volts to a low battery, which may be a very good place to start the charge of a low set. I will be very interested to see how it all pans out in real life!

[booster]

It does appear that Blue Sea is behind in the website and in some of their literature.

Here is what we actually got, although it isn't listed on the page with the other BMS products

https://www.bluesea.com/products/770..._-_12V_DC_500A

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

It does appear that Blue Sea is behind in the website and in some of their literature.

Here is what we actually got, although it isn't listed on the page with the other BMS products

https://www.bluesea.com/products/770..._-_12V_DC_500A

Yeah, I just checked and that is what I have as well. In my case, I use it as the main DC disconnect for the coach. Everything (except the solar, the Trimetric, and the wire to the chassis alternator) goes through it, so I can shut down the van for storage from the panel inside the vehicle.

They may be screwed up, but so was I. I was wrong when I said I had a ML-ACR -- that is the one with built-in charge logic ("Automatic Charge Relay"). Sorry for the confusion. At any rate it is a great product that works well in both applications.

[booster]

That's why this forum is so good, folks actually look at stuff and ask questions that make everyone think! Having that unit for the coach 12v power is nice, much higher quality than one others use.

The ACR version is also very nice if you are the type who wants to have a separator that autoconnects, but can still be easily overridden both on and off. 40ma is trivial compared to the 1.4 amps of Sure Power like most companies use.

I seem to remember you saying you have a separator, also. What did you use for that?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I seem to remember you saying you have a separator, also. What did you use for that?

I just have whatever generic relay Great West put in by default, activated by the Sprinter "engine running" signal. I added a "boost" button that turns it on from the coach battery. I plan to also add a manual shutoff (just a low-current switch in series with the control wire from the Sprinter.) But first I need to finish my "display the charge status on the nav screen" mod, so I know when to shut it off.

Some time I will follow your lead and do a rework of the whole engine charging system and at that time I may upgrade the relay as you have. I have several projects in the queue before that, though.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

I have several projects in the queue before that, though.

Ain't that always the way! I still haven't figured out how I had time to have job all those years.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by booster

............................. These numbers would indicate that the "self limiting" of the less than perfectly designed system may work out, as we will have about 1 volt drop when we approach 200 amps of current, putting maybe 13 volts to a low battery, which may be a very good place to start the charge of a low set. I will be very interested to see how it all pans out in real life!

That should work out great. A gentle commencement of charging with the voltage rising as the amperage drops.

[booster]

Avanti--as long as you are looking at how to get signal out of the Trimetric, maybe you would also be able to get the "fully" charger indicator signal, which if programmed correctly, will be triggered based on the ending (return) amps to the batteries, at absorption voltage, with a hold time (all settable IIRC). That way you wouldn't even have to watch it as it could shut off the separator, or light up an indicator (on your screen?) to shut it off.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

Avanti--as long as you are looking at how to get signal out of the Trimetric, maybe you would also be able to get the "fully" charger indicator signal, which if programmed correctly, will be triggered based on the ending (return) amps to the batteries, at absorption voltage, with a hold time (all settable IIRC). That way you wouldn't even have to watch it as it could shut off the separator, or light up an indicator (on your screen?) to shut it off.

The set of parameters that the Trimetric reports is fixed (it is a transmit-only device--sending a fixed message over and over). Here are the parameters that it reports:

—Volts 1
—Volts 2
—Filtered Volts 1
—Amps
—Filtered Amps
—Amp-hr
—Percent Full
—Watts
—Days since charged
—days since equalized.

The "filtered" values are smoothed over the last 5 minutes or so, so they don't jump around wildly.

I suspect that this is enough to create an adequate controller of the kind you are interested in. An easy Arduino project, as I said.