As long as I was waiting for the charger to show up (allegedly tomorrow and I have to be here to sign, it says) I figured I would try to clean up my wiring diagram a bit, and also start learning the ins and outs of the new CAD program (free Draftsight). Very much like the older AutoCad 2D stuff like V14 and 2008LT, but still a learning curve when you haven't done stuff like this for a long time. Of course it takes a converter to get it into JPG besides.
Edit- I changed a few power sources on the wiring diagram because there was a chance they would see equalize voltage, which would not be good.
Charger and ACRs both showed up today, so the new bed frame support and mounting brackets are finally started.
I finally got all the mounts, brackets, frames and such made and put in place will all the components (except the toggle switches I am waiting for) to see how it all fits in place. All in all, because of a bit of putting stuff into places I didn't even know would exist, the turned out to be much less crowding than I expected, and there looks to be plenty of room for wiring and cooling air. This is just the trial fit, so all of it will come back out, get finish welded, ground, painted, lock washers or loctite etc, before I put it back in and wire it up.
The setup is made of multiple smaller assemblies that go in separately, making all of it very easy to assemble, once the bed plywood is off. Probably 5 minutes to take it all out when there is no wiring like now. A bunch of the wiring will be able to be left with the individual assemblies if service is needed, so unwiring will be much less than it could have been.
Here is a look from the rear door toward the electrical area. About the only space we will lose is the small amount where the charger sits. The big chunk of aluminum sticking out from the inverter mount will be cut off when I disassemble and finish off all the parts. It will be just inside of the frame above it.
The new transfer switch sits behind the charger, also mounted to new bed frame section, like the charger and inverter are. The boxes under it are the 110 junction boxes for the shore power in and the inverted AC out to the van.
This is looking down from the top, that will be covered by the bed plywood. The rear sub assembly has the 12v relay, shunt for the Trimetric, 12v power circuit breaker, 12v breaker for the wiring that went to the power sofa, and another 12v breaker that will feed the generator starter. On the bottom of the area are the two 80 amp breakers that will be on the twin cables coming from engine and going to the ACRs.
This is from the inside of the van looking into the area. The front subassembly shown has the solar controller, battery selector switch, and 12v fuse panel so we won't have any more inline fuses all over the place in the electrical area. The empty area at the top of the panel will get the still to be received toggle switches for compressor, solar, and ACR manual override.
The cover/door for the area will be plexiglass, so we will be able to peak in above the front panel and see the indicators on the ACRs, Inverter, and solar controller, even though we have remotes for a lot of it also, but not the ACRs
The modified bed frame was made to bolt in, instead of being welded like it used to be, so that it is also one of the subassemblies, and supports the big items. It can come out complete, with inverter and fuses, charger, and transfer switch and boxes which really helps the assembly of it all because it can be done on the bench instead of in the van.
Lots still to do, but at least it looks like it will all fit if the wiring doesn't surprise me somehow. I can't wait to plug it in an see if it will actually do a good job on the Trojans, and also be able to run the microwave. Need to get done, spring might actually get here some day, although it is still not getting to freezing this week.
You do fantastic work Making it so that it can come out complete with inverter, fuses, charger, and transfer switch etc. to assemble it all was a stroke of genius
It always amazes me how long it takes me to run heavy gauge wires. I seem to guess wrong on time by a factor of at least 3X. I have been at it for 2 days.
I first took everything back out after the trial fit, disassembled it all, got all the right fasteners, lock washers, jam nuts, etc to go back together, collected, and finished up the tacked welding. Then I cleaned up and gave the frames a quick coat of spray can paint. It really doesn't look like at that many parts when they are all together, especially since the biggest one is mostly bed support from before.
This is what Roadtrek had used, I had already had to repair/reinforce it 3 times since we got the van
I used split loom to line the wire inlet opening to cover the sharp edges
I put in the rear sub assembly panel, and the ACR panel, so I could start the wiring on them. First was the chassis ground to the shunt for the Trimetric meter. The chassis ground is into the original seatbelt mount hole that is welded into the chassis.
Then the positive from each of the coach battery banks, on to each of the ACRs. And the combined negative from both banks to the shunt.
Then I had to go underneath and finish getting the two #4 wires from the engine extended into electrical area, and at the same time I finished off getting the extra, lighter wires for other things brought through also. They go through the same place Roadtrek had the battery cables go to before, and I put their junction post back in so I could run power back to that area because that is where the generator hooks up for the 12v for the starter. The hanging blue wire was pulled from the front at the same time and will be for trailer brakes if we ever need it.
The factory #4 wire had to be extended, but the new one went straight through. I used a purchased inline splice kit for the factory wire. Very nice kit with a brass, set screw style, splice and shrink tubing that is extra heavy and lined with sealer that melts and makes it watertight when you shrink the tubing.
I put in the sub assembly with the two 80 amp breakers for the back end of the engine wires, and got ready to wire them in. The problem was that I needed to put connectors on the ends of the engine wires and the only way I have to do the big connectors is with my "hammer crimper", which works great, but needs to be on a very solid surface to work right. The obvious option was to pull the wires back out far enough to get them down to the floor, which would be a lot of work and I still would need a plate on the floor to not chip out the concrete. I was all set to remove the 1/2" thick steel plate that I have under my vice on the workbench. It is about 18X24". Then I noticed the base on my old Park bike repair stand. It is 1/2" steel and about 2" square. Must weigh 50# or so. Four screws later it was off the stand and in the van. It was plenty strong and heavy enough to get good crimps in the van. Saved a whole lot of time and effort. The heavy wire on the right goes to an 80 amp breaker and is from the generator binding post shown earlier.
Note says I am out of attachments, so will continue on new post.
Then I could finish up the rest of large wire wiring.
The negatives for the batteries tie together on a post mounted to the frame just behind the front battery box
These are all the wires, including the needed smaller ones, where they go up into the electrical area.
The wiring runs all along the the length of the passenger wheelwell, as it did before, but there is much more of it now. I may make a rubber flap to help protect it all before I am done.
Ended the day by starting to extend where needed, and wire in the existing van wiring for the 12v power relay, the power sofa breaker and wiring, and the main 12v van power wiring and breaker
I will be finishing up enough of the wiring to hook up the 110 power and get the charger online, by itself with the batteries to start out for testing. Once I know that is working right, I can add the extra control switches, the solar stuff, and the Trimetric readout wiring, as well as tieing in the inverter and transfer switch.
Being able to do all of this wiring without having the bed and front subassembly in the way was very nice compared to having to reach in and around if the other parts had to be in place too.
Very nice job, as always. I hope it works as good as it looks!
The only suggestion I have is to replace the wire loom around the wire hole (download/file.php?id=2096) with heavy duty flexible trim. It's probably available from many sources, but I've gotten mine from Pegasus Auto Racing. See: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ ... oduct=4346 It works real well especially it lightly hammered onto the sheet metal edge.
Hi Dick, thanks for the link. I have always had a hard time finding good grommet strip, and that looks like pretty nice stuff, and available in less than 50 feet. Over the years, I usually used split tubing, like fuel line or washer line because I couldn't find the right sizes, but have been using loom latey because I can build up a couple of layers of it if necessary to keep the wiring from moving around too much. Probably too late to change this stuff, though, and the fixed gap stuff strip might not work easily anyway, as that area is right between the wheel well, a thick plate that Roadtrek added to support the battery box, and a reinforcing rib on the floor. The thickness of the material probably goes from .028 to over .100 as you go around it. When I am done, this area will be completely sealed into a big glob with silicone, too so that should help. In the past when I have had failures it was usually from bouncing and sliding on a hole or panel edge wearing through the harness or sleeveing (even when lined), so now I try to immobilize them, even if they get a little ugly in the process. I think I will order some of the strip from the link for some of the other areas that I still need to get some rub protection on, though, like where I go in and out of the add on frame section that Roadtrek added by the gas tank. I will have to go under and get some measurements of the thicknesses of the materials.
I finished up most of the wiring for the 12v to the van, but left it unconnected at the 12v relay until I am sure the charging stuff is working. I decided to put in the 110 volt stuff, but not wire in the inverter yet, until all the other shore power things look right. Once the shore power was connected I hooked up the inverter circuit through the new transfer switch so I would be able to see if it switched on the outlets when I plugged in.
It appears Canadian electrical boxes are a bit bigger than the US versions. Roadtrek had outlets for the inverter and charger in the box covers, so I figured I would just replace them with some blank ones I had. Same hole pattern but about 3/8" narrower. They did fit inside the Canadian ones, though, so that will work.
Mostly wired except for front sub assembly that will have the solar, fuse box, toggle switches and selector switch. Temp wired to test the 110v power and charger.
110 outlets all worked, as did the inverter outlets, so the transfer switch is at least working on that side of the circuit.
Then the part I had been waiting for
Powered right up, programmed in the "user" profile with the Trojan specs and about 1.4% of battery capacity for minimum amp for absorption. ACRs worked exactly as advertised isolating the banks as soon as the charger came on. If I removed the signal wire from the charger, they closed, so that is what should happen when running the van engine. Bank 3 in the pic is the starting battery, and I left that disconnected at the separator until I get all of the rest of it done. Our batteries had been sitting for months without charge, but didn't look to bad. The small 12v at 115AH was at 12.3 volts, and the T145 6volts checked in at 12.58 volts. I will be very interested to see how the 14.8 volts does on the recharge, even with less than optimized settings. I will do specific gravity in the morning.
Still a lot to do, but it is at least starting to look like it may actually work, and the end may soon be at least visible.
You've made a lot of progress and you're at the point where you see the results of your efforts. That Blue Sea unit really looks like the best choice for your van. 3 battery bank charging
Getting some of the details worked out at the end was a bit "challenging", as it got obvious that there would not be enough room to reasonably do the connections to the selector switch with it mounted to the panel, or by pulling it out the front of the panel to wire. I decided I had to move it to the rear of the panel for mounting, so that I could wire the switch and then put the panel on it from the outside. I had to epoxy nuts into the nut pockets on the back of the switch as they would not friction hold into place, and had to clearance the support frame to clear the flange of the switch.
I could then wire it in with the panel out, and let it hang on the very substantial cables.
The panel could then be put on with the support.
Unfortunately, all the wiring also made getting screws through the panel support to floor plywood very difficult as they were behind the panel. I had originally planned on having the supports come out toward the center of the van, but changed my mind so I wouldn't have to take the solar controller off to get at them. Bad choice. I moved them to the other side, under the solar controller, but then had to change the controller mount to tapped holes instead of nuts so it would be removable from the outside, and raise it up a bit to clear the support leg mounting screws. At that point the legs were also in the way of wiring the solar, which would have been hard anyway, so I flipped it upside down to expose all the connections. Wish I had gone with the original plan, it would have saved a bunch of work. Oh well, it is in now.
Here is why the previous changes were needed. Very tight if the control panel is in place!
The charger wiring was tight, but doable without a lot of problems.
Complete from the rear door. Charger looks a lot bigger than it is in this pic.
And from inside the van.
We also now have switches for the solar controller, onboard air compressor, and and override for the ACRs. No more inline fuses for the little stuff as they are now in the new fuse panel, and the big fuses are under the inverter.
So far, everything seems to be checking out well, and it fills the batteries very quickly and very full. Very much different than the Tripplite did.
I think it may be appropriate to start a new discussion on the charging and parameters for the Blue Sea, and the inverter running things in conjunction with the van alternator. What do you think, Marco?
Yes, I think so. It'll be a good topic for anyone wanting a substantial systems upgrade.
Not an inch of wasted space. Pretty fantastic upgrade. You have many power sources to choose from now: engine, generator, batteries, solar or combination of those. Pure Sine Wave inverter too
As the performance testing has been going on, I have been finishing up the install stuff. Tied up all the under hood and front wheelwell wiring and got the aircleaner back on so the van would be runable. Hooked up the wiring for the onboard air compressor from the wiring area, got the remote for the charger mounted and the wiring fished through the wall to it. Everything seems to be working as it should at this point.
Since everything was able to fit within the footprint of the original parts, I was able to reinstall the front wall panel in it's original holes in the front, and by adding two little angles at the rear. It has a channel on the rear edge to engage the rear panel, and that also was left the same, except for cutting in a pipe hanger for our awning parts storage tube. The rear panel is made out of .220" thick acrylic sheet, doubled up at the front edge to go into the channel, and at the rear to strengthen the door latch area. It slides into the channel in the front, and is held on with two knobs in the rear, so the panel is easily removable. The door in the panel is hinged so it can be opened to get at the toggle switches and selector switch.
The clear panel allows us to see the indicator lights on the solar, inverter, and ACRs, as well as all the switch positions. The charger is outside the cabinet, so it is totally accessible.
Next need to tieup the overlength wiring (OEM stuff and the long Cat 5). and start modifying the bed to fit the altered frame.
Finally getting near the end of it all! Tied back the wiring harness mess, which included lots of overlength ones from Roadtrek.
Finally got around to getting the fill hose for the long removed internal tucked out of the way.
I got the new frame pieces drilled and tapped for the plywood deck without issue, but when I put it all back in, I had interferences in the panels on the driver's side, which was weird because I hadn't taken the frame loose on that side. After a lot of messing around I found out that when I put in the metal support to the wheelwell on that side a couple of years ago, I wound up with a bind in it from tightening it down on the sculpted wheelwell. When I loosened the frame on the other side and removed the plywood from the entire bed, the frame on the drivers side moved about 3/16" by itself from the binding releasing. Once I repositioned the mount and redrilled some plywood mounting holes, all was good to go.
All that is left is to tie up all the wire and cables under the van, in the wheelwell, and take out the batteries and put them back in with the cables correctly placed to allow the slides to work. I also need to get some 1/4" maple to make a mount for the inverter remote, that will go where the original Roadtrek switch was in the front by the fuse panel.
Everything seems to be working well, and the testing of parameters to get the batteries full, but not cooked, continues.
Really nice job. It looks good and the technological improvements set it apart from most Class B's out there.
Advanced charging of 3 separate battery banks, Pure Sine Wave inverter, inverter automatic transfer switch, upgraded wiring etc. Plus the previous mods: solar panels, enlarged battery compartment, battery monitoring ......... I bet the RT Factory would like to see your RT. Some competitors might like to see it too!
Nice time to be finishing up the job. You have the whole camping season ahead.
Well, not a good night last night here, it appears. Went out this morning to a blank display on the charger, which had been running in float for a couple of days. Looked to be charging OK when unplugged/replugged, but just a blank light blue screen. Called Blue Sea as soon as they were open, and they thought it had a dead display. Tech went off to find out what they could do, and called back about 3 hours later with an offer to send a new charger and a call tag for the one we have. Disappointing that it failed (and scary for future), but can't complain on their response. The new one is coming two day air, and will be here Tuesday. I guess I now get a chance to see if I did OK on making the charger easy in and out.
I had planned on finishing up the rest of it today, but it is amazing how something like this will suck the motivation out of you.
I did manage to get the remote for the inverter mounted. It actually fit nearly perfectly in the same area as the Roadtrek on/off for their inverter was, and used their cable besides. Pretty easy.
The Roadtrek switch was just like the porch light switch, and was in the upper position, so I just moved the porch light switch to the upper position, and cut the bigger (much bigger) hole for the remote in the lower area where the area is wider. I did need to trim a bit off the flange of the remote to match the angle of the wall.
Hopefully, I will get the rest tomorrow, if we don't go another 4 steps back somehow.
That was a HUGE job. Not many people would tackle a project like that. It's no wonder you're a bit tired of it.
The one positive about the display failure is that it happened at home in your garage and not on a trip.
The whole thing would have been a lot more fun if I could have done the couple of hours, whenever I felt like it, routine, instead of all day every day because the charger was so late. But that's the way it goes. Looks like the total hours will be in the 90 hour range, including all the front to back wiring and microwave rewire. It has been a lot of work, but this is the kind of stuff I like to do, so it is also as much a hobby as work. I did finish getting all the underbody wiring tied and fastened securely today, and have foam sealant curing on the big opening with all the wires going through. It looks to be pretty hard to seal up completely with all the wiring there. I foamed inside and out with expanding insulation foam, and will have to trim and fill voids again tomorrow, I think. I can't see any light through it, but being so close to the exhaust, I may go get a smoke generator and test it for air infiltration when I think I am done. I will spray it with rubberized undercoating to protect the foam, I think.
At least the display failure wouldn't have made it so we couldn't charge batteries, if we had been on the road. The charger section was working OK, it appeared, and the remote gives enough information to be able to let it run. Hopefully, the new one will be better, as we have a lot of confidence to regain, especially with longer trips coming up.
I think this is finally the end of it, as there will only be the replacing of the charger when it comes on Tuesday...
I used insulating foam to seal and strain relieve the big wiring through the main opening to the van from the wheelwell area. I had never tried it before, mainly using silicone in the past, but it actually worked pretty well. I sprayed it with rubberized undercoating after trimming it with a serrated knife.
Just a little of the foam shows at the inside edge of the splash shield
The wheelwell front with everything back in place
And the rear
I had done a modification to the rear battery case right after we got the van, as the battery and slides were constantly getting filthy with road junk and dirt. Here is what it looked like OEM. This is a very common complaint on 190 Roadtreks that have a battery behind the rear wheel.
The cables slide back through the tubing when the tray is pushed in. I made a rubber flap to seal out most of the dirt and water, but still allow ventilation. I also sprayed the entire box, that was corroding with rubberized undercoating. I haven't had to clean the slides since, and it has been 4 years.
To keep the battery from sticking to the undercoating, and also give even more corrosion protection to the tray bottom, I put a piece of poly sheet in the tray under the battery.
To get it in place the easiest, you just tape it to the battery, put the battery in, and take off the tape.
The little things underneath were to add bunches of cable clamps, tie wraps, etc to restrain the big wiring. I also got some of the grommet strip Dick Tillinger recommended and put it on the big straight areas where the wires run around the thick frame segments (thanks Dick).
Wheels are on and ready to roll when we get the new charger in, and DW does here magical cleaning transformation to the inside, that I messed up pretty bad.
Testing will be going into high gear, as we need to get ready to go places, and now we can get it out in the sun to see how the solar input affects things.
It looks like it is about 80+ hours and a bit over $1700 in parts, roughly. The time could easily be cut to about 15 hours if space was not an issue, like if you designated a clear area and put the batteries, charger, inverter and the other stuff all together with enough space to make wiring easy. We also did the microwave rewiring and more capacity from the engine charging, that ate up some time.
It is very common to see folks on the boards with older Roadtreks, many of which had only one smallish coach battery, upgrading their batteries and chargers. Many times they are a bit disappointed because the shop that installs the upgrade uses lots of their available storage area. It is common to read comments about other space that could/should have been used instead. I had always kind of thought that it was just that the shop was a bit lazy or not very innovative, but the length of time this took for me to do ours would make something similar to this change prohibitive if you were paying at shop rate, so it may just be the way it has to be done so folks can afford to do it. It would be a bummer, though to line up 4AGMs in our storage area, with a charger, inverter and the other stuff, as it would take about 1/3 of our storage area. In vans with the OEM style beds the percent lost would be even greater, although you would gain the storage area where the batteries used to be, accessible from the outside.
If it all works as intended, the upgrade will be easily worth the cost and time, we will see how that end of it goes. Right now, reliability is a nagging fear after the charger failure so early.
Re: Charger and inverter upgrades in process
Making it so that it can come out complete with inverter, fuses, charger, and transfer switch etc. to assemble it all was a stroke of genius 
I moved them to the other side, under the solar controller, but then had to change the controller mount to tapped holes instead of nuts so it would be removable from the outside, and raise it up a bit to clear the support leg mounting screws. At that point the legs were also in the way of wiring the solar, which would have been hard anyway, so I flipped it upside down to expose all the connections. Wish I had gone with the original plan, it would have saved a bunch of work. Oh well, it is in now.
Linear Mode
