Winnebago Boldt - It’s a game changer

[Doctor Old]

We traded our Coachmen Crossfit for the Winnebago Boldt back in November. After several trips, we are thrilled with the switch. No doubt we miss the power of the Ford but it’s a trade off we are happy to make considering what we get in return. The Volta Power system is so powerful and so easy. We rarely stay at campgrounds anymore. Because we are constantly on the move, everyday after a short drive, the under-hood generator has the system back to 100% power quickly. Who needs solar? And the $64,000 question is “can the A/C run all night on the battery”? Yes, as long as you don’t put it on the coldest setting. Love not having a generator. Then all the other details just work. The rear bath is spacious enough to shower comfortably. The Truma Combi keeps water and air warm quite easily. The kitchen is just right. Plenty of storage. And frankly, the MB Sprinter is a great chassis and although lacking power, is a comfortable driver. We got a hurt a bit on the trade $$ but the value in this rig has more than made up for it. If you’re in the market for a new rig, I highly recommend giving this a look. Once you live with this power system, you won’t want to go back to traditional coach batteries, small inverters, solar panels and such. Makes van life virtually stress free.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Doctor Old

We traded our Coachmen Crossfit for the Winnebago Boldt back in November. After several trips, we are thrilled with the switch. No doubt we miss the power of the Ford but it’s a trade off we are happy to make considering what we get in return. The Volta Power system is so powerful and so easy. We rarely stay at campgrounds anymore. Because we are constantly on the move, everyday after a short drive, the under-hood generator has the system back to 100% power quickly. Who needs solar? And the $64,000 question is “can the A/C run all night on the battery”? Yes, as long as you don’t put it on the coldest setting. Love not having a generator. Then all the other details just work. The rear bath is spacious enough to shower comfortably. The Truma Combi keeps water and air warm quite easily. The kitchen is just right. Plenty of storage. And frankly, the MB Sprinter is a great chassis and although lacking power, is a comfortable driver. We got a hurt a bit on the trade $$ but the value in this rig has more than made up for it. If you’re in the market for a new rig, I highly recommend giving this a look. Once you live with this power system, you won’t want to go back to traditional coach batteries, small inverters, solar panels and such. Makes van life virtually stress free.

The Boldt's are nice. Pricey, but nice. I'm looking forward to seeing more Volta and similar lithium systems in class b's. Hopefully you and other "early adopters" will bring down prices for the rest of us.

So far, my puny 200Ah lithium upgrade is a game-changer for us allowing microwave use, fast charging, and the 50% increase in usable capacity takes most of the worry out of overnight boondocking. I'm jealous of what you can do with your much much more powerful battery system.

Enjoy.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Doctor Old

We traded our Coachmen Crossfit for the Winnebago Boldt back in November. After several trips, we are thrilled with the switch. No doubt we miss the power of the Ford but it’s a trade off we are happy to make considering what we get in return. The Volta Power system is so powerful and so easy. We rarely stay at campgrounds anymore. Because we are constantly on the move, everyday after a short drive, the under-hood generator has the system back to 100% power quickly. Who needs solar? And the $64,000 question is “can the A/C run all night on the battery”? Yes, as long as you don’t put it on the coldest setting. Love not having a generator. Then all the other details just work. The rear bath is spacious enough to shower comfortably. The Truma Combi keeps water and air warm quite easily. The kitchen is just right. Plenty of storage. And frankly, the MB Sprinter is a great chassis and although lacking power, is a comfortable driver. We got a hurt a bit on the trade $$ but the value in this rig has more than made up for it. If you’re in the market for a new rig, I highly recommend giving this a look. Once you live with this power system, you won’t want to go back to traditional coach batteries, small inverters, solar panels and such. Makes van life virtually stress free.

Doctor Old,

Old Bud here. You story is wonderful, but it does not mention Boldt stuff vs stuff available with the Beyond. Does not really matter at all as hope to be as pleased with my next purchase/trade-in. There are some cool Boldt features, Beyond too.

[Doctor Old]

Originally Posted by Bud

Doctor Old,

Old Bud here. You story is wonderful, but it does not mention Boldt stuff vs stuff available with the Beyond. Does not really matter at all as hope to be as pleased with my next purchase/trade-in. There are some cool Boldt features, Beyond too.

As far as stuff that the Crossfit/Beyond has that might have been different or better (or inferior): Drivetrain. The power going up in the mountains was awesome. The Sprinter can do it but it’s accelerator to the floor to do it. Ride quality nod goes to Mercedes though. I actually liked the windshield (visibility) in the Ford a little better. And the side view mirrors were a little better too. But getting in and out of the cockpit from the rear is much easier in the Sprinter. And the MB infotainment is superior. The Crossfit shower is way too small. It’s doable but very hard. The fold down bed is not comfortable either. We got something to pad it but it just wasn’t as comfortable as the twins in the Boldt. And it got old making up the bed everyday. The Ford’s rear end clearance sucked compared to the Benz. Of course the biggest difference is the power system. The generator struggled to simply power the coffee machine some days. And the two AGM batteries did okay but without an inverter we were kinda handcuffed if we needed A/C short of running the gen all the time or having to be in campgrounds. Don’t get me wrong, the Crossfit/Beyond is a good rig but the premium price of the Boldt is worth the up charge. We thought this RV would be a relatively short term thing 12-18 months but we’ve grown to like this one so much we may keep it.

[Lennie]

I'm surprised the Sprinter is slow over the mountains, can't you downshift? I have an older version (T1N) and it's more powerful than many other class Bs and shifting is really easy. I also use it to minimize braking when driving down long inclines.

[Davydd]

High capacity lithium ion batteries (800ah for me) coupled with a second under hood alternator make solar impractical in a Class B if you drive frequently which many do because of the nature and capability of Class Bs. I've known that for 6 years now even though I bought 480w of solar on my roof thinking that was what you do at the time--maximize solar. My next Class B will have no solar whatsoever.

You might justify solar if you have a long term outdoor stay or storage situation with no shore power. That is not my case anymore. Solar can be a very expensive trickle charger taking up space on a roof for other uses.

I also quickly learned in most of the year when when the days were long and the sun was higher, I tended to camp in the north mostly in wooded areas and the more wooded the better.

In the winter I tended to stay longer in one place as I went south to the beaches or desert when the sun was unobstructed but the days were short and the roof was not optimal with the sun lower in the sky. I noticed in Death Valley many of the native Californians had portable foldout solar panels propped on the ground and usually manually positioned to track the sun all day.

When I was calculating my electrical use 6 years ago the rule of thumb of solar was a 100 watt solar panel produces an average of about 6 amps per peak sun hour, or about 30 amp-hours per day. 480 watts would provide 157.5 amps. It could be higher or it could be less. I now know less for the reasons I described above. I don't want to be in Death Valley on the summer solstice.

So what does all this mean? Usually the minimum lithium ion battery bank is about 200ah and most lead-acid setups are less than 200ah. My solar could have easily recharged my batteries in that scenario as I would use less electricity with that bank in traditional Class B husbanding use i knew before in my first two Class Bs coupled with propane. With an 800ah battery bank I can afford to keep my inverter on all the time and have electric power boondocking same as shore power and no propane. I could easily top 200 amps off my batteries with an overnight stay. 480w of solar, which BTW, is about maximum you can get on a 24 ft. Sprinter, will not keep up with that use and my second alternator could replenish it in less than an hour with high idling which I didn't do, but driving about a half hour every day could. While staying in a campground boondocking with no tethered hookups with a Class B you tend to explore every day driving somewhere sightseeing, going to a trail head, going out to dinner, etc., or I could stay put at least three days without driving. Trust me, my antsy self can't stay put any longer than 3 days.

[Doctor Old]

You’re absolutely right. Solar is unnecessary. I could use that rack space for a carrier of some kind.

[avanti]

The strongest argument for having some solar is to maintain battery health during unpowered outdoor storage, as Davydd mentioned. Probably more important for FLA batteries than lithium, if for no other reason than that cold-weather lithium storage requires power for heating anyway (at least according to conventional wisdom). Solar really isn't reliable for the latter in any event, due to potential snow cover. Even with FLA, a fully-charged battery that is completely disconnected will last a good long time in storage.

I agree that you are fooling yourself if you think that solar is going to make a significant contribution to your daily power budget, unless you go to extremes both with amount of solar capacity and also choice of campsite.

[booster]

Regardless of any/all of the other benefits of either model, that Volta power system is probably the biggest improvement and certainly could spoil most people to most anything else, as long as they continue to have good reliability. The fact that they are high voltage to reduce amps, they have gotten around the biggest charging issue of the 12v systems which are pretty much maxed by 300 amps of 12v. The much shorter charge times can be a big deal, I think, as long as the engine can spare that much horsepower and load on front accessory drive.



The biggest possible problem would be the need to have heated storage if you are in a cold climate or at least 100% reliable shore power all the time.


Totally agree that solar not needed as you couldn't get enough of it to make a dent in the power use most would be using with that huge pack, and it would also not be enough, or reliable enough, to heat the pack in the very cold.

[JohnnyCLE]

Originally Posted by Doctor Old

The Truma Combi keeps water and air warm quite easily.

Is this the electric model running off the Volta system or off propane?

Does anyone have experience with lithium in hot environments? I noticed that Victron Smart Lithium batteries are set to turn off at 50 degree C (122 F). Last time we left Arizona it was 111 F mid-morning. Is there a cooling system for the Volta or are the batteries located inside? Mid day temps parked in the sun would probably also reach 122 F inside.

People who occasionally use their Class B as a touring coach sometimes have to travel through brutal temperature extremes.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCLE

Is this the electric model running off the Volta system or off propane?
.......................

Truma Combi D is using Eberspacher diesel technology, at least in EU.

[Doctor Old]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCLE

Is this the electric model running off the Volta system or off propane?

Does anyone have experience with lithium in hot environments? I noticed that Victron Smart Lithium batteries are set to turn off at 50 degree C (122 F). Last time we left Arizona it was 111 F mid-morning. Is there a cooling system for the Volta or are the batteries located inside? Mid day temps parked in the sun would probably also reach 122 F inside.

People who occasionally use their Class B as a touring coach sometimes have to travel through brutal temperature extremes.

It can run off either. It literally sips propane so we actually use it instead of electric unless we are plugged in. Saves the battery for other stuff.
It has a fan that runs but I’m not sure if that’s for the battery pack or the inverter. It does have a warming mechanism for the colder days. And yes, the battery pack is under one of the interior benches. So as the Winnebago rep says, “if you’re comfortable, it’s comfortable”. So not sure if the battery warmer is necessary unless we were traveling in the super cold temps. I guess we’ll find out about how it handles the warm days this summer. The Volta analog dial is supposed to turn red if it get’s too hot. And you can monitor the pack temp with the bluetooth connected app. That’s also a cool feature that will tell you how much battery life is left with the current electrical draw.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Doctor Old

It can run off either. It literally sips propane so we actually use it instead of electric unless we are plugged in. Saves the battery for other stuff.
......................

Am I reading it correctly, you can run Truma water/space on Volta batteries?

[Davydd]

Volta batteries are installed inside the cabin on Winnebagos and ARVs. If it is that hot out, 111 degrees, most assuredly you will be running an air conditioner. Personally I would avoid that kind of heat as I already said I would never venture into Death Valley at the summer solstice and you can get caught in extreme conditions for a little time but that isn't going to kill your batteries. The Technomadia blogging couple had a Class A RV in the Phoenix, AZ metro area all year round outside and in storage on black asphalt with an unconditioned battery compartment. I think over 5 years they lost 20% capacity on one report they published. They had an older generation of the batteries I have, Elite Power Solutions in Mesa, AZ.

With Volta batteries, second alternator and diesel to take advantage of instant heat and hot water (like an Espar diesel fired system) I think it is just as foolish to consider built in propane as solar in my opinion. You can use an electric compressor refrigerator and and electric induction cooktops give you almost as much infinite control of heat as gas.

[Testro]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Am I reading it correctly, you can run Truma water/space on Volta batteries?

Yes! We have a Travato NPF with the Volta system, and mainly run the Truma on batteries only. We've taken it to east coast beaches in 100 degree days and in the Rockies with temps in the single digits for multiple days with no issues. It is a fantastic system, can't say enough how easy it is.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Testro

Yes! We have a Travato NPF with the Volta system, and mainly run the Truma on batteries only. We've taken it to east coast beaches in 100 degree days and in the Rockies with temps in the single digits for multiple days with no issues. It is a fantastic system, can't say enough how easy it is.

That is impressive. Your Truma space heater output on low is 2.2 kW so with 12.8 kWh batteries at 85% efficiency it will drain batteries in less than 5 hours. At 50% duty cycle about 10 hours, it is impressive but at high heater output of 4.2kW it will run for 2.5 hours only.

I have a well-insulated camper van with 2.2kW heater and it runs hard with outside temperatures at teens, settling for 800-1200W for the night.

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

That is impressive. Your Truma space heater output on low is 2.2 kW

That's when on propane. On electric, they are 850/1700W. I run mine at 1700W on a 20a circuit all the time. 1700W is still a battery killer though.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by @Michael

That's when on propane. On electric, they are 850/1700W. I run mine at 1700W on a 20a circuit all the time. 1700W is still a battery killer though.

Thank you. I was reacting to the previous statement “run the Truma on batteries only”. We all love lithium but they have their limits too. My Airtronics D2 runs on four levels from 850-2200W and the low level is not enough to heat up the van from cold with teen temperatures outside.

[Doctor Old]

Running the Truma on propane is super fuel efficient and saves your battery for other stuff. I talked with a rep at Truma and she really sang the praises of the unit running on propane instead of electric but gives you the flexibility to use either. All I know is it really works well.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Doctor Old

Running the Truma on propane is super fuel efficient and saves your battery for other stuff. I talked with a rep at Truma and she really sang the praises of the unit running on propane instead of electric but gives you the flexibility to use either. All I know is it really works well.

…..either?, would love to see your energy calculation.