Which sprinter platform engines dont need DEF?

[bumpersignal]

Im dong research on sprinter platform RVs. I've seen some that have engines which don't need DEF. A 2010 Adventurous supposedly claims this, and I'd like to find out if these are more reliable than the ones that do require DEF? Would love to hear all your opinions.

[mkguitar]

you may be further restricted if in California and need a vehicle which meets CA stds



Mike

[bumpersignal]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

you may be further restricted if in California and need a vehicle which meets CA stds



Mike

Oh, good point. Thanks for raising that.

[Rocinante]

My favorite engine that didn't need DEF was the 5.7 Hemi V8 gasoline engine in the RAM 1500 pickup I used to own until a week or so ago.

[Rocinante]

But seriously, folks, it may be possible that the older Airstream Interstates built in the old Sprinter T1N platform are worth looking at. I don't know for sure, though.

[mkguitar]

OP, your other posts ask about extra seating- which brings up safety


an older model ( which may be non-def ) may have fewer safety type features compared to a newer model.


mike

[avanti]

Sprinters started using Diesel Particulate Filters in MY2007 and they started using DEF (BlueTec) in MY 2010. Note that many upfitters use the previous year's model of chassis, so it is possible that a "2010 Adventurous" may well be DEF-free.

Because the pre-MY2010 NCV3s are DEF-free, many consider them to be the golden age of Sprinter powertrains.

Obviously, all T1Ns are DEF-free. These engines are pretty darn bulletproof (assuming the turbo-resonator has been eliminated and that the EGR valve gets regular attention). T1N vans are certainly worth considering--they have a lot going for them. The trouble is that they are very truck-like and unrefined compared to NCV3s and VS30s. It is a BIG difference. That is why the early NCV3s are so prized by many.

Mkguitar's safety point is also well-taken. The magic years for that are MY2014 for passive safety and MY2019 for active.

[rvsprinterguy]

As a California owner of a T1N van, I'm a bit nervous about how long I'll be allowed to continue registering it.

As others have said, it's rough and truck-like without any modern safety features. I'd really like to have the cross-wind assist feature available on new vans.

When I buy new, I'll most likely choose a gasoline-powered Sprinter.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

As a California owner of a T1N van, I'm a bit nervous about how long I'll be allowed to continue registering it.

As far as I have ever heard, neither California nor any other state has ever refused registration of any production vehicle, so long as its emissions system is intact and it passes the emissions standards that were in place at the time the vehicle was first sold.

[bumpersignal]

Everyone's comments here have been very insightful.

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

As a California owner of a T1N van, I'm a bit nervous about how long I'll be allowed to continue registering it.

As others have said, it's rough and truck-like without any modern safety features. I'd really like to have the cross-wind assist feature available on new vans.

When I buy new, I'll most likely choose a gasoline-powered Sprinter.

Gasoline sprinter? You mean Mercedes platform? I didn't know there was such a thing. Is the emissions passing the only concern you have with it, or can you detail the other issues?

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by avanti

As far as I have ever heard, neither California nor any other state has ever refused registration of any production vehicle, so long as it's emissions system is intact and it passes the emissions standards that were in place at the time the vehicle was first sold.

The manufacturer is required by EPA for the vehicle to pass emissions for years after sale


You don't have anything to worry about - action is taken against cheats
incl the discovery of an emission defeat on the vehicle from the manufacturer ( or a non-CARB "tuner" )


I have friends who got caught up in that mess with a VW in CA and an Audi in the UK.
Very different results- the CA vehicle was pulled and probably reprogrammed and sold out of State, owner got a fair cash buy out ( a 3rd pal bought one of these type cars in vermont)


The UK Pal was required to have car reprogrammed with dropped power about 15% and fuel economy also dropped 10% or more- he got a 1 time settlement of 1500 pounds


the consumer is protected.


as far as emissions, the worst things on the road are the air cooled VW and porsches which are allowed 500 ppm of unburned gas out the tailpipe- not many of them is regular use.


Mike

[avanti]

Originally Posted by bumpersignal

Gasoline sprinter? You mean Mercedes platform? I didn't know there was such a thing. Is the emissions passing the only concern you have with it, or can you detail the other issues?

Yes, there is certainly a 4-cylinder petrol Sprinter. In fact, this year's model just cleared emissions certifications the other day, so they can now leave the lot. However, I believe that they are only available in the smaller-sized Sprinters.

[avanti]

It should be noted that, although one can avoid the hassles of the Sprinter diesel emissions debacle by seeking out and driving an older van, in doing so one also avoids the clean-air benefits of these systems. For all the ham-handed engineering of these systems, when they are working properly they DO run very clean, which is obviously important to all of us.

My personal choice is to seek out the most reliable possible modern van, knowing I am doing my bit for the environment and global warming. Sadly, the Sprinter diesel is not that van.

[bumpersignal]

Originally Posted by avanti

My personal choice is to seek out the most reliable possible modern van, knowing I am doing my bit for the environment and global warming. Sadly, the Sprinter diesel is not that van.

Duly noted. In your opinion, what should I look for that meets the following (in particular order):

1) safety
2) mpg
3) reliability
4) seats at least 7
5) usable daily will be able to park almost anywhere that doesnt require permit

[avanti]

Originally Posted by bumpersignal

Duly noted. In your opinion, what should I look for that meets the following (in particular order):

1) safety
2) mpg
3) reliability
4) seats at least 7
5) usable daily will be able to park almost anywhere that doesnt require permit

I only feel qualified to address #1 and #3.

Safety:
The advanced safety features tend to come in waves, with a given package of interrelated features tending to be bundled together. That bundle will be more-or-less equivalent across OEMs, but some are more aggressive at offering them sooner than others. The previous generation (ca 2014) had mostly "passive" features such as lane-drift alarms, blind-spot radar, and front collision warning. The current generation has "active" controls, like lane correction, cross-wind control, collision avoidance, and adaptive cruise control (which is really a convenience feature, but often bundled with the safety stuff). The active features are now available on all three platforms (Sprinter, Promaster, and Transit), but they may or may not be standard equipment, so you have to be careful. They didn't all introduce them at the same time, so if you are buying used, you have to look carefully at the individual unit.

2) Reliability:
All modern vehicles are pretty darn reliable. I normally wouldn't place much emphasis on it. It is mostly "good enough". BUT, the Sprinter BlueTec problems are so blatant that I just can't see ignoring them. This is coupled with the relative scarcity of Sprinter dealers when there is a problem. This has made me eliminate Diesel engines from my list of acceptable alternatives. There may be other such "outlier" problems with the other OEMs, but if so, I don't know about them.

[mkguitar]

5>) depends on municipal ordinances and /or private restrictions such as HOAs

santa monica requires overnight street parking permit for over 8' high and over 20' long.

we street park when visiting family ( with regular guest parking permit hanging) and have not been hassled but we are 20'10" with spare tire and 9'4" high
mike

[wny-pat]

"Seats at least 7" - Four in the car following you!

[rvsprinterguy]

I see the "seats at least 7" requirement in a Class B to be a deal-killer.

[rvsprinterguy]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

I see the "seats at least 7" requirement in a Class B to be a deal-killer.

On another thread, I see mention of the Airstream Interstate 24GL, which seats 9! However, it does only sleep 2.

[Stevemo]

The 2007, 2008, and 2009 (2008.5) Jeep Grand Cherokees have the same engine & transmission and did not need DEF.
I have a 2008.5 which is a 2009 that they couldn't sell in 2009 due to emissions so they rebadged them as 2008s and unloaded them as fast as they could. It actually came with a 2009 owners manual.