Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion

[dougbaty]

The Hymer web site features 3 models: Aktiv, Aktiv2.0, and the Sonne. However, though it was announced early in 2017, the Sonne is nowhere to be found. It is shown on the same short Promaster chassis as the Axion. Hymer appears to have positioned it higher-end as a Hymer, while the Axion is slightly down-market under the Carado line.

I've searched high & low for even a single Sonne for sale but never found one until yesterday.
Here is a weblink to a dealer: DeMartini RV Sales - New and Used Motorhome Dealer | Detail | Vehicles
{DeMartini RV is east of Sacramento in Grass Valley.}

It is called a Carado Axion LX rather than a Hymer Sonne. I have no idea why. Though relatively near me I haven't seen it in person. FYI, this particular unit is a new 2017 marked down to $70K. Not cheap, but it has all the goodies Hymer can pack in the small space. It has a similar layout to the Roadtrek Simplicity SRT, with the oddity of a shower separate from the toilet.

Hymer sure is quirky. And I have no idea why they don't keep their website current. Or published much about their vehicles. They seem to like to keep us in the dark. I wish they would follow Winnebago's informative example.

DougB

[nebulight]

That is probably the prototype Roadtrek Link that was shown off at the 2016 Hershey RV show that then turned onto the Hymer Sonne. It's a crap design and I think they ended up not going into production. Space is limited on a 136 so splitting the shower from the toliet is a huge waste of space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaWo...ature=youtu.be

[mumkin]

It is definitely the prototype of the Roadtrek Link - it even say Link on the Hymer price list on that dealer website. A member of one of the Roadtrek/Hymer pages on Facebook was considering it.

The prototype Sonne went to a dealer in North Carolina and was purchased by someone here in Arizona, who drove it back. He reported personal issues and he has now put it up for sale on RVTrader:

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2017-Hymer-SONNE-5001053024

Hymer is only producing the Sonne as a special order unit. My suspicion is the many negative comments about both the Link and Sonne on the internets is the reason that it never really went into production. All of the platforms that had been ordered to build these turned into Carado Axions. This is why all of the Axions are currently built on the upgraded chassis whereas all of the Banffs are built on the base chassis.

Hymer is still testing the waters of North American demand... while more than doubling (or more?) the factory build space in Ontario. It has certainly been a roller coaster ride for those of us that need an RV under 20 feet... they are the only game in town... so to speak.

[Yodar]

The DeMartini website has the LX listed as a 2017 but if you click the "MSRP Sheet" button you'll notice that it is actually a 2016 built on the 2015 chassis.

[mumkin]

At least the price is starting at a realistic number... room to negotiate it down to its real value. To me a show vehicle is "used" and should be sold as such.

[Yodar]

The LX is precisely what I'm looking so I went back to double check the warranty before I pulled the trigger and noticed the model year (I hope) clerical error.

Lake Region is advertising a Midwest Passage 144 as a Roadtrek Agile on RVTrader. I notified RVT weeks ago about the "error" and nothing has changed. And I've seen many positive comments on Lake Region in the forums.

A couple of dealers are posting "MSRPs" of Aktivs that appear to be 10K over the prices of dealers that post build sheets. One even uses the term "Detailed Pricing" beside their no-detail "MSRP." I drove 3.5 hours to take a look wondering if Hymer has a new 2018.5 Gucci Landau Vinyl Roof" or 21" rims options. I asked for the build sheet and after a 20 minute wait I was given a store-generated computer printout, NOT the build sheet. I took a walk.

Stopped at another with an Agile they'd sold a couple of months ago yet was still on their website and on RVTrader. I stopped in to see if the deal had fallen through and, no, they just still hadn't removed it.

I'm certain that keeping online inventory and pricing accurate and up to date must be a logistical nightmare for a dealer with one store, let alone at dealers with multiple outlets where they move a coach from one store to another or a weekend RV show, but LaMesa, while not 100% perfect, does an amazing job.

I'm beyond frustrated before I've even made it to the F&I guy's office, let alone a 3 hour round trip to my nearest RT/Hymer/Carado service department. And I used to think buying a car was a minefield. Better go check to see if REI has a tents and sleeping bags on after-Christmas sales..

No, wait... BestTime in Las Vegas has 2 2019 Aktivs ($103K MSRP) for $78K. WooHOO, a new rabbit hole!
(Sorry for the rant).

[Yodar]

https://www.rvsaleslasvegas.com/

[BBQ]

.

Why don't you call and have a mutual understanding before making the 3.5 hr drive?

I would have a "relationship" (on the phone) (no, not the hanky type ) with the salesman before i would make any moves. Otherwise, in their eyes, you are just another time-wasting tire-kicker, and there are lots of them around.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Yodar

A couple of dealers are posting "MSRPs" of Aktivs that appear to be 10K over the prices of dealers that post build sheets.

I think that the Manufacturer's Suggestion is "whatever you can get".

[Yodar]

I'm in Fort Lauderdale and the only new Class B dealer here closed up in the middle of the night and dragged their inventory across Alligator Alley to their other store in Fort Myers. This leaves us a 4 hour round trip west or a 3 hour RT north to a franchised dealer.
.
So I've spent the last year digesting as many of your helpful forum posts and watching countless youtube FitRV, etc. reviews, joining relevant Factbook groups, Class B Warned-style blogs, etc. in order to learn about a different world. Sadly the industry lacks RV magazines like Car & Driver or Consumer Reports to vicariously contrast, compare, and offer long-term tests.

So I did my second annual "one lap of Florida's RV dealers" (Port Saint Lucie, Palm Bay, Cocoa, Sanford, Ocala, Gainesville, Leesburg, Dover, Seffner, Bradenton, Nokomis. and 3 in Fort Myers) to make sure my IRA and I wouldn't repent at leisure after marrying in haste long distance.

Good news: It was worth the trip! I've concluded I want a '19 Sprinter 144 chassis with Ford Eco-Boost V6 twin turbo, Aktiv interior, and Ecotrek 800.
No huh?

Good news: I have compromised and pulled the trigger on a great deal on a used '17 Class B with 2K miles through my favorite salesman at one of his stores on the other side of the country.

Bad news: have just learned it is waiting for parts from Sweden via Kitchener.

Perhaps we are all time wasters until we find the perfect nexus of price/coach/ and or/salesman? Did I mention price?

At least I've figured out why North Trail, Lazy Days, and General RV have built DisneyWorld Fort Wilderness-style campgrounds... so South Floridians have a place to sleep in our RVs while we wait for parts!

And I've figured out whey the poor NC Sonne buyer is unwell: Class B purchase stress.

I've just ordered a copy of Final Exit hoping they have a chapter on Suicide by Lithium RV Batteries" just in case my purchase was a Lemon Law Buy Back.

[mumkin]

No one said he was unwell... he said he was selling it because for personal reasons. Since he is relatively young (from photo and such on Facebook), it could be lots of reasons, but not probably health. Could be a job change... a move from the country... could be he decided that it was too small.

[kite_rider]

Originally Posted by 35603

If you decide to go with one or two additional AGM batteries in the space where the lithium batteries would go, would it be as simple as wiring the additional batteries in parallel with the existing AGM?
Have you considered adding the underhood generator? Would the charging profile be suitable for AGM batteries?

Yes, I'll probably just add an AGM battery (or batteries) once I get a better understanding of my power needs. There are mounts (two) under the center of the van for the optional Lithium batteries and heavy cables going from them to the inverter. The AGM batteries would just be wired in parallel to the existing battery and I would use the existing 220A alternator plus pre-installed solar to charge them. No changes required for charging these batteries.

Though the underhood generator could be added; I don't see the need for my use scenario. I don't expect to be running the A/C all night. I'm thrilled that the roof mounted A/C runs off the existing alternator (and inverter) already. It does a good job of cooling down the van quickly on a hot day. For the very rare situations where I'll be camping in hot or humid environments I'll just pay up for a campsite with shore power.

[falfal3]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Indeed, recovery could be difficult if possible.

Personally I think it's GREAT as I'm no "Quality snob", I'm all about function and with 400 amp hrs of lithium power, 200 watts solar, under hood genny and special order VoltStart, this Axion is all about function. All that for around $76K and I'm all in, Arizona desert, here I come!

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by falfal3

Personally I think it's GREAT as I'm no "Quality snob", I'm all about function and with 400 amp hrs of lithium power, 200 watts solar, under hood genny and special order VoltStart, this Axion is all about function. All that for around $76K and I'm all in, Arizona desert, here I come!

I had to refresh my memory going back to the beginning of this thread to understand your point.

Congratulation, first post and you clearly stated you love Hymer/Roadtrek at even questionable quality. Go for it and report back about your Arizona trips. Hopefully quality of your desired functionalities will checkout well.

With this post you could get a good discount from Hymer/Roadtrek.
See this post from today, happy customer?

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...t=58873&page=5

[falfal3]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I had to refresh my memory going back to the beginning of this thread to understand your point.

Congratulation, first post and you clearly stated you love Hymer/Roadtrek at even questionable quality. Go for it and report back about your Arizona trips. Hopefully quality of your desired functionalities will checkout well.

With this post you could get a good discount from Hymer/Roadtrek.
See this post from today, happy customer?

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...t=58873&page=5

You misread me, I'd buy any manufacturer with those specs and price, I repeat, "I'm no quality snob". I'll gladly report on my trip, after I make it but if you are really interested, you could search posts for any EHGNA owner with 400 ah lithium, 200 watts solar and VoltStart, pretty common going back to before Hymer. Good luck.

[Smith101]

I’ve now had my Axion (lith 400) a couple of months. I saw nowhere in the specs that the Alde 3010 would not provide heat and hot water above 3300ft. Altitude. So when I camped at 4000ft I had neither. The Alde part to fix this is not imported. So I have to hire someone to hack into the supply line and insert a regulator so I can rebalance fuel/air mixture. I talked to Hymer and they don’t want to participate in a fix. So, beware of depending on specs.

Other than that the unit serves its purpose well. It’s comfortable (below 3300’) and basic. There are flaws like things that have come loose and molded panels that don’t join and wasted opportunities for delightful details that you would find, say, in a Travato. After replacing a too small fuse in the Balmar the electrical system works great. Keeps the dog cool.

With sales as slow as they are I’ll bet you can get an optioned up model for $60k I paid $58k (with TV delete).

I’ll deal with the mod. Quality snobs won’t tolerate the warts, but for value it’s pretty incredible.

[falfal3]

Originally Posted by Smith101

I’ve now had my Axion (lith 400) a couple of months. I saw nowhere in the specs that the Alde 3010 would not provide heat and hot water above 3300ft. Altitude. So when I camped at 4000ft I had neither. The Alde part to fix this is not imported. So I have to hire someone to hack into the supply line and insert a regulator so I can rebalance fuel/air mixture. I talked to Hymer and they don’t want to participate in a fix. So, beware of depending on specs.

Other than that the unit serves its purpose well. It’s comfortable (below 3300’) and basic. There are flaws like things that have come loose and molded panels that don’t join and wasted opportunities for delightful details that you would find, say, in a Travato. After replacing a too small fuse in the Balmar the electrical system works great. Keeps the dog cool.

With sales as slow as they are I’ll bet you can get an optioned up model for $60k I paid $58k (with TV delete).

I’ll deal with the mod. Quality snobs won’t tolerate the warts, but for value it’s pretty incredible.

Beautiful, thanks SMITH101, that's what I wanted to hear, except for the Alde, oh well, guess I can heat water on the stove if I ever venture higher than the desert floor or at the Pacific coast. Thanks again, warts don't bother me either as I usually cause my own doing mods that make my life easier.

[dougbaty]

Disturbing reading SMITH101's comments on the ALDE system in his new AXION. From that and other web postings, I gather the ALDE system is technically advanced but finicky. While finding a knowledgeable service tech in Europe may be easy, in the USA parts and repairs are hard to come by. When you have all your eggs in one basket (heat, hot water, electric, propane all mixed together) that basket should be very reliable. I gather the ALDE system takes much knowledge to use and more to repair. -Not suitable for the everyday RV. Truma seems to be better.

Most Hymer coaches have a separate propane heater for air and hot water. Propane hot water heaters require an ugly plate on the side of your van and aren't supposed to be lit while traveling (safety regulation).

After reading TheFitRV's comments on the new Travato L series, it occurred to me that Hymer's 2nd alternator is strong enough to power an electric hot water heater. I propose installing an ordinary 5 gallon hot water heater and plugging it in to 110v shore power & the 2000 watt inverter. Without shore power you would have to drive some to heat up the water, though twin LI batteries also have enough power to heat the tank. [Amazing that you could heat water with batteries, but they are that powerful. Reminds me of StarTrek's handheld phasers.]

While my proposal won't work for long term boondockers, it would be simple, safe, reliable and not show on the outside of your van.
DougB

[Smith101]

This week I camped at 2800 ft along the Kern River. The Alde 3010 worked as advertised. Plenty of heat and hot water providing quiet comfort all night. Alternate solutions may have advantages but in the Axion you have little extra space to work with. Modifying a 3010 as has been done in some NuCamp units probably jeopardizes safety, warranty, and legality. The effective solution seems to be to replace the 3010 with the 3020 which has designed-in altitude compensation. The 3010 mods reduce fuel flow to match reduced oxygen at altitude which also reduces BTU output. The 3020 uses a variable speed blower to increase oxygen maintaining BTU output. The footprint and connections are the same, only control wiring is different. Cost is about $2000. Source: Spencer at Alde.

I’ve been told Hymer is working on a solution and doesn’t want anybody to hack the current set up. Meanwhile if I want to use my Axion this summer I’ll need both the $2000 and to be able to find someone to do the swap.

How could they not have known about this?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Smith101

Modifying a 3010 as has been done in some NuCamp units probably jeopardizes safety, warranty, and legality.

I can't speak to safety, but aftermarket modifications are perfectly legal and do not jeopardize any OEM warranty. Obviously, any damage provably caused by the modification is excluded from warranty coverage, but the warranty itself is unaffected, by law.