Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion

[Tami2]

Someone asked about the Banff. Here are pictures from the Hershey RV Show.

[Tami2]

I don’t know why the bathroom picture is sideways. I’ll try again.

[dougbaty]

Nice clear pictures Tami2. I can see that this Banff doesn't have a backup camera, trailer hitch, Al wheels, or BU bumper sensors, all of which are part of the Ram "chassis enhancements". I hope the price reflects that.

I like the new for 2018 creamy-leatherette upholstery. Easer to clean and more inviting than the previous black fabric. Still no side-door screen yet. Funny, since the very similar Aktiv has that as standard (as do Travatos). And the color scheme is still darkwood. Maybe that is to distinguish it from the CampingWorld Sunlight - which has blondewood cabinets.

Wish I could have attended the Hershey show, but your pictures help. Thanks.
DougB

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by dougbaty

...To squeeze a vent fan into the Axion, I plan on raising the solar panel and mounting the fan under it. Maybe there would be space under the solar for a spare tire too (saving the trailer hitch for other things).
...
DougB, Sacramento

Doug, we raised one of our solar panels by approx. 2 1/2" to install a Vanair Vent under it for the bathroom. It will create a shadow on the adjacent solar panel but I will eventually raise the 3 other panels. We are finally enjoying efficient and silent ventilation, specially for hot and steamy showers.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by dougbaty

...To squeeze a vent fan into the Axion, I plan on raising the solar panel and mounting the fan under it. Maybe there would be space under the solar for a spare tire too (saving the trailer hitch for other things).
DougB, Sacramento

If you want a bigger fan (not another bathroom fan) under your solar panel you might try the EZ-Breeze which doesn't need a lot of clearance.

Fan-Tastic Vent's OEM EZ-Breeze Fan

[kite_rider]

Nice long thread here. Been lurking and decided to finally register. Wife and I bought the Axion after deciding that we didn't want to wait for a Revel (or pay the much higher price) and are planning to make many mods to get it where we want it. Mostly this will be better insulation for cold weather camping and some attempts to make it more rugged.

Just finished the first trip from Oregon to Moab to South Padre Island, TX and back via Phoenix to Oregon.

Coming from various VW Eurovans and Westfalia campers, this is pretty luxurious to us.

Great suggestion on the raised solar panels to accommodate another fan. Will also say that the insulation in the walls is NOT Reflexit (or whatever you call the foil based bubble wrap). It is some type of insulation (possibly fiberglass or maybe thinsulate). But in any case, there is not enough of it! Nor are the pillars or wheel wells insulated.

My first priority is to put in more and better insulation and insulate the pipes so they don't freeze. I'm thinking that the best idea is to run some of the heated glycol mix along the plumbing to keep it from freezing. I love that heater! So much better than the Suburban heater in the VW Eurovan camper.

Would love to dig up some threads where others have made modifications to their hydronic heat systems. Really interested in the idea on the Revel where they ran the heated glycol mix through the holding tank. I may attempt this on my rig.

[nebulight]

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Nice long thread here. Been lurking and decided to finally register. Wife and I bought the Axion after deciding that we didn't want to wait for a Revel (or pay the much higher price) and are planning to make many mods to get it where we want it. Mostly this will be better insulation for cold weather camping and some attempts to make it more rugged.

Just finished the first trip from Oregon to Moab to South Padre Island, TX and back via Phoenix to Oregon.

Coming from various VW Eurovans and Westfalia campers, this is pretty luxurious to us.

Great suggestion on the raised solar panels to accommodate another fan. Will also say that the insulation in the walls is NOT Reflexit (or whatever you call the foil based bubble wrap). It is some type of insulation (possibly fiberglass or maybe thinsulate). But in any case, there is not enough of it! Nor are the pillars or wheel wells insulated.

My first priority is to put in more and better insulation and insulate the pipes so they don't freeze. I'm thinking that the best idea is to run some of the heated glycol mix along the plumbing to keep it from freezing. I love that heater! So much better than the Suburban heater in the VW Eurovan camper.

Would love to dig up some threads where others have made modifications to their hydronic heat systems. Really interested in the idea on the Revel where they ran the heated glycol mix through the holding tank. I may attempt this on my rig.

Congrats on the van. I saw this at Hershey this year and honestly though it was a decent setup. QC is lacking, but that's the case with most RVs these days. However the floorplan was setup nice and storage was decent. I just love the 136in wheel base as it's so easy to drive and park.

[kite_rider]

Originally Posted by nebulight

Congrats on the van. I saw this at Hershey this year and honestly though it was a decent setup. QC is lacking, but that's the case with most RVs these days. However the floorplan was setup nice and storage was decent. I just love the 136in wheel base as it's so easy to drive and park.

Thanks. Have to say that Mrs Kite_rider had a big role in the decision to buy this (vs build which is where I was leaning). As you say, drives like a SUV and I'm hoping it's decent in the snow as others have mentioned. My wife loves to sip wine and visit while she cooks dinner. This floor plan is set up to seat four or five and still have just enough room to cook. Since most of our friends are either in tents or sleeping in the back of their trucks, we end up being the social hub. Hopefully this rig will keep us on the 'happy wife, happy life' track..

Though QC is lacking, the 'bones' seem to be good. For example, same Promaster chassis as many more expensive class B's, same 2KW inverter as other more Hymer models. Really interesting hydronic heater/water heater by Alde (I love it so far!). A roof top A/C system that works great when the van is running and probably would last for short runs on battery when I expand my house battery capacity. Good quality ceramic toilet from Dometic, etc.

I have already had to fix a few things like the poor adhesive that holds the tank indicator buttons to the control panel and beef up the drawer latches so the drawers don't fly open on fast curves.

The real fun will start after I bounce this thing down the very long bumpy dirt roads in remote parts of Baja seeking nice wind and waves. I will probably end up re-building and reinforcing a lot of stuff in the camper. But hopefully, this will be much less time than building it all from scratch.

By the way, after four very long trips into remote Baja (not to mention many other trips to mt bike spots in BC Canada and surf trips in Mexico) - I almost *never* see any of the fancy Class B rigs down there. I think the mentality is that if you spend a lot of $$ on a Class B - the last thing you want to do is get it dirty and beat around in these rough environments. What I do see is a lot of beat up Sprinters and old Econoline vans. Or, a 4x4 truck with camper or pop up camper.

Love all of the great modifications and tech discussion on this forum Hopefully I'll add a few of my own to the conversation.

[nevercontent]

What options did your Axion come with Lithium, solar GU?

[kite_rider]

Originally Posted by nevercontent

What options did your Axion come with Lithium, solar GU?

Base unit. 200w solar, no GU, no lithium, no TV.

Thought long and hard about Lithium. I have a design that I built for my fat e-bike (52v on a 48v mid-drive system) that would work great in a camper van. Just not sure that I need it for this rig since it has propane for cooking and heating water.

[mumkin]

I forget Kiterider... did you get an Axion or a Banff/Sunlight? I hadn't seen either of these on a lot without the Ecotrek.

So what battery(s) does it have?

[kite_rider]

I've got the Axion and it is supposed to have a single 200AH AGM battery. It's under the floor so I've only seen the bottom of it so can't confirm the actual specs. There are studs and wiring for mounting two Lithium batteries under the floor as well. Trying to decide if I will put more AGM batteries here or Lithium.

If I did go the Lithium route, I would be using a non-standard (for RV's) chemistry and probably a different inverter. I've had good luck (and experience) with 18650 battery builds on e-bikes and I think this would be a good way to go on a campervan.

[nebulight]

Originally Posted by kite_rider

I've got the Axion and it is supposed to have a single 200AH AGM battery. It's under the floor so I've only seen the bottom of it so can't confirm the actual specs. There are studs and wiring for mounting two Lithium batteries under the floor as well. Trying to decide if I will put more AGM batteries here or Lithium.

If I did go the Lithium route, I would be using a non-standard (for RV's) chemistry and probably a different inverter. I've had good luck (and experience) with 18650 battery builds on e-bikes and I think this would be a good way to go on a campervan.

I'd suggest you NOT go with 18650 NMC lithium as their resting voltage makes it hard to build a 12V battery. Since they rest at around 3.6V having 3 in series will give you 10.8V (too low) and 4 in series will give you 14.4 (too high). They do make 18650 lifepo4 cells, but they are hard to find. If you want to go the custom route of making your battery, you can do 26650 lifepo4 cells. Same height as a 18650, but much fatter. But again, it's a lot of work when you can just buy large prismatic cells. However to each their own.

Also NMC lithium can explode when shorted/damaged. Lifepo4 does not. They can vent, but won't explode. Another thing to keep in mind when going lithium in a van.

Also since you've only done lithium for bikes, charging ANY lithium battery below freezing can damage the cells permanently. I have no idea why roadtrek/hymer installs them outside the van. Below freezing they either won't (shouldn't) get a charge or they are going to fail long before they should. They use heating pads to warm the batteries, but those suckers draw a lot of amps. If you can, install inside the van where it's insulated and heated during use. Make sure if it's a DIY project to install a thermostat to shutoff charging below freezing. I did a video on how I set mine up here: https://youtu.be/YlrP-CwFnlg

Lithium is expensive so you don't want to kill a new battery by charging it in freezing conditions.

[mumkin]

Roadtrek Lithium are all in a temperature controlled box. It is quite an intricate system... nothing like a bicycle.

Personally I would add a couple more AGMs to match the ones you have.

[kite_rider]

Mumkin, I agree with you. More AGM's would be the easiest, cheapest, and most logical way for me to increase my house battery capacity on this vehicle. I'll probably use the existing mounts that Hymer installed for the Lithium batteries to install additional AGM batteries as you suggest.

Nebulight, excellent video and congrats on the novel solution to prevent charging during sub-freezing temps. You are the perfect person to discuss the concept I have about using an alternative chemistry Li-ion battery for a campervan application since you clearly have experience with the Phosphate (LiFePO4) chemistry.

If I were building a 12V Lithium battery that mimicked lead acid batteries; then LiFePO4 would be the way to go. But this line of thinking just makes everything harder and more expensive. Rather, start with the premise that you just want inexpensive and efficient 110V AC power and work backwards from there. This paradigm works best for a new camper van build where you are not starting with any appliances at all.

My concept uses diesel or gasoline for cabin heat with the goal being a 'single fuel' vehicle (no propane). Water heating, cooking (inductive cook top, microwave, and toaster oven), cooling (A/C), and all kinds of other accessories would be powered good old 110V AC. This would be enabled by a 2KW or possibly 3KW 52V DC power inverter with a bank of 14S (TBD parallel) NCA (Li-aluminum) 18650 batteries. The battery banks will all be inside the heated part of the van and each group of cells will be protected with a BMC (battery management controller). Important note! There would still be a smallish AGM 12V cabin battery to handle the things that are not big power drains - this would be charged by the engine's alternator and (optionally) the solar system.

The advantages are many, the costs are lower than just about any other approach I can think of. Safety can be discussed, but I don't see this as being dangerous. Charging is complicated and will a very fun discussion. As I mentioned before, I should probably start a new thread for this since I would like to get feedback on the idea. Any suggestion on which forum area I should take this??

[nebulight]

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Mumkin, I agree with you. More AGM's would be the easiest, cheapest, and most logical way for me to increase my house battery capacity on this vehicle. I'll probably use the existing mounts that Hymer installed for the Lithium batteries to install additional AGM batteries as you suggest.

Nebulight, excellent video and congrats on the novel solution to prevent charging during sub-freezing temps. You are the perfect person to discuss the concept I have about using an alternative chemistry Li-ion battery for a campervan application since you clearly have experience with the Phosphate (LiFePO4) chemistry.

If I were building a 12V Lithium battery that mimicked lead acid batteries; then LiFePO4 would be the way to go. But this line of thinking just makes everything harder and more expensive. Rather, start with the premise that you just want inexpensive and efficient 110V AC power and work backwards from there. This paradigm works best for a new camper van build where you are not starting with any appliances at all.

My concept uses diesel or gasoline for cabin heat with the goal being a 'single fuel' vehicle (no propane). Water heating, cooking (inductive cook top, microwave, and toaster oven), cooling (A/C), and all kinds of other accessories would be powered good old 110V AC. This would be enabled by a 2KW or possibly 3KW 52V DC power inverter with a bank of 14S (TBD parallel) NCA (Li-aluminum) 18650 batteries. The battery banks will all be inside the heated part of the van and each group of cells will be protected with a BMC (battery management controller). Important note! There would still be a smallish AGM 12V cabin battery to handle the things that are not big power drains - this would be charged by the engine's alternator and (optionally) the solar system.

The advantages are many, the costs are lower than just about any other approach I can think of. Safety can be discussed, but I don't see this as being dangerous. Charging is complicated and will a very fun discussion. As I mentioned before, I should probably start a new thread for this since I would like to get feedback on the idea. Any suggestion on which forum area I should take this??

I'd make a new post over here:

Electrical | Charging, Systems, Solar and Generators - Class B Forums

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Mumkin, I agree with you. More AGM's would be the easiest, cheapest, and most logical way for me to increase my house battery capacity on this vehicle. I'll probably use the existing mounts that Hymer installed for the Lithium batteries to install additional AGM batteries as you suggest.

This is what was done to my 170. It was one of the very first Roadtreks to leave with factory with a lithium battery late summer of 2015. The system was NOT ready for prime time and they had to develop a system to restart them when they shut down. (which didn't come for many months) After two dead batteries (MSRP $3000+) in about 5 weeks, I asked them if we could just retro-fit the original Group 31s that were normally installed. RT said no problem and told my dealer tech to do so at their expense. One of the batteries went into the usual rear wheel well location and the second was put into the Lithium system box and hung just behind the rear axle.

No issues since...

[avanti]

Our GWV Legend came with two Group 31's. I though hard about upgrading to Lithium, but ultimately decided to just add two more identical AGMs. Now that I realize how much of a hassle Li ownership can be, I thank my lucky stars that I made that decision.

[35603]

Originally Posted by kite_rider

I've got the Axion and it is supposed to have a single 200AH AGM battery. It's under the floor so I've only seen the bottom of it so can't confirm the actual specs. There are studs and wiring for mounting two Lithium batteries under the floor as well. Trying to decide if I will put more AGM batteries here or Lithium.

If you decide to go with one or two additional AGM batteries in the space where the lithium batteries would go, would it be as simple as wiring the additional batteries in parallel with the existing AGM?
Have you considered adding the underhood generator? Would the charging profile be suitable for AGM batteries?

[dougbaty]

I've looked at the Banff, the CampingWorld Sunlight Van1 and the (new) Sunlight Van2. As far as layout goes, I can't tell any difference.

Does anyone know why the name was updated? I noticed that 2018 Sunlights can be V1 or V2 (as written on the decal of the RV). All 2017 Sunlights seem to be V1. The V2s sometimes have more options (2 LI batts instead of 1, & solar, but both can have UG, mag wheels, trailer hitch). All 2018 models appear to have leatherette upholstery. Other than that, I don't see any changes.

DougB