Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion

[booster]

I wouldn't be surprised if it were Reflectix, the egg trailer folks have been using it for years in their trailers (Scamp). Of course they make all kinds of crazy claims about how well it insulates by claiming R15 or such. The true R value is very low, the claim to fame of Reflectix is for radiant heat across open area, which isn't how walls work, unfortunately. It does work well on hot window areas, though.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Smith101

No I didn't ask. But the solar would have to come off. So I'm not sure how complicated that would be. On the inside there's plenty of ceiling space. In the show atmosphere I felt like the Mike Thompson people didn't want to talk about anything other than writing a sale. I wish I had asked Lars when I had his attention.

Definitely not to replace the solar, which to me is a must have... but why not just make the hole in the bathroom roof large enough to fit either the maxfan or Fantastic Fan? Would seem the logical spot on such a small van...

[jharu]

That's great research @Smith101

[Smith101]

More Axion details from Pomona

I went back to the show today and again found Lars (last name Dudek, a Hymer rep for the northwest region) with more questions.

First, I had assumed the lithium batteries were always paired with the GU. That is wrong. These features are available separately or together. So you can get lithium without the GU and vice versa. All Axions are prewired for both options.

Second, and very important, is Hymer’s service strategy for non-chassis defects and repairs. For the most part, dealers do not do service. When a repair, warranty or not, is needed the customer calls Hymer who has engaged and trained independent RV repair only or customizing shops across the country. Hymer then directs the customer to the nearest facility, no matter where the customer is at the moment. Don’t call a dealer. That’s a relief!

For example, the customer I mentioned previously who bought the $58k deal got an AGM/no GU vehicle and will have the lithium and GU options installed by Hymer’s local service provider. So happens the owner of that local shop, Tony Peneda, was at the show. He has 17 years of factory trained RV product service, custom modification, and installation. So I asked him about replacing the puny bathroom fan with a Maxx Fan or a Fantastic Fan. He said that would be easy as long as there is room. He did not offer a price. I got the impression he was quite knowledgeable.

So here are some pics of the roof (I hope). Even though this Axion has no TV, the antenna is present.
loose wire.jpeg

roof space 1.jpg

roof space 2.jpg

roof space 3.jpg

solar fit.jpg


Also, a photo of the price promo: obviously trying for a windfall.

1 price tag - 1.jpg

So, by this time you've probably guessed who that $58 customer is.

[dougbaty]

Correction: Just re-visited RV show and there is only 1 (not 3) extra battery-sized boxes underneath the Axion (& Banff). In the shadows I confused the grey holding tank with more boxes. IE: Under the Axion are 2 large lithium battery boxes and 1 smaller battery-shaped box that I don't know what its function is.
DougB

[Mofto]

A ton of useful info in this thread, you guys are awesome!

[booster]

I can't imagine why they would offer the lithium batteries without the engine generator, as you need to be able to charge them and have no other high output sources. Their high acceptance rates will be very hard on a standard alternator, and may mess up the PCM using a lot of alternator power

Of course it is possible you get no engine charging when you have lithium and no engine generator.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Smith101

More Axion details from Pomona

I went back to the show today and again found Lars (last name Dudek, a Hymer rep for the northwest region) with more questions.

First, I had assumed the lithium batteries were always paired with the GU. That is wrong. These features are available separately or together. So you can get lithium without the GU and vice versa. All Axions are prewired for both options.

Second, and very important, is Hymer’s service strategy for non-chassis defects and repairs. For the most part, dealers do not do service. When a repair, warranty or not, is needed the customer calls Hymer who has engaged and trained independent RV repair only or customizing shops across the country. Hymer then directs the customer to the nearest facility, no matter where the customer is at the moment. Don’t call a dealer. That’s a relief!

For example, the customer I mentioned previously who bought the $58k deal got an AGM/no GU vehicle and will have the lithium and GU options installed by Hymer’s local service provider. So happens the owner of that local shop, Tony Peneda, was at the show. He has 17 years of factory trained RV product service, custom modification, and installation. So I asked him about replacing the puny bathroom fan with a Maxx Fan or a Fantastic Fan. He said that would be easy as long as there is room. He did not offer a price. I got the impression he was quite knowledgeable.

So here are some pics of the roof (I hope). Even though this Axion has no TV, the antenna is present.
Attachment 4983

Attachment 4984

Attachment 4985

Attachment 4986

Attachment 4987


Also, a photo of the price promo: obviously trying for a windfall.

Attachment 4988

So, by this time you've probably guessed who that $58 customer is.

You need 14" square for the fan.
I don't thnk you have it there.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by BBQ

You need 14" square for the fan.
I don't thnk you have it there.

I agree... it looks too small to me...

[BBQ]

.

You can put the solar on stilts and put the FF underneath.

[dougbaty]

As the nearby LaMesa RV show was ending, I dropped by for the 3rd time and again crawled under the Axion & Banff. These examples had UHG, lithium batteries, and solar option (as well as chassis upgrade).

This time I was able to better see that under both models is 3 (count-em) battery boxes. 2 large, solid, sealed lithium battery boxes and an AGM battery fixed by a holding plate open on the front and back. In the dim light it took me a while to see that the side of the lead-acid battery is completely visible and not a box itself.

While in the coach I switch on the battery connect and the coach lights came on even though both lithium battery switches were off! Switching on the lithiums increased the voltage display by a few tenths. I also notice that solar and lithium control computers are not inside any cabinets like they are on Roadtrek Zions. [They could be under the fixed couch along with other electronics and heaters.]

I have been educating myself by reading Forum posts about power control, but the topic is complex and somewhat over my head. Nonetheless, putting 2 and 2 together I concluded that Hymer saved some money by hooking the solar panel to the AGM battery where it will keep the battery trickle charged and not require a solar control box: (true?). Of course, it will also be charged by the standard motor alternator along with the engine starting battery - they have the same charging curve.

I further concluded that the lithium batteries are hooked to the UHG (2nd alternator) which has a special voltage controller that matches lithium's particular needs. Those are hooked to the inverter so you can run the AC and microwave. This design will avoid heavy current draws from an AGM battery, which it doesn't "like".

So my theory is that the Axions/Banffs have isolation diodes to route the power generation to the batteries that match their characteristics. Solar and alternator to lead-acid; UHG to lithiums. Couple that with routing battery power to load demand, and you can omit a couple control boxes: (true?). Hymer certainly omitted display panels showing current generation and draw like James installed on his Travato ("The Fit RV").

- - - - - - - - - -
As for AC, it was another warm sunny October afternoon in the valley and I decided to keep the AC unit and not replace it with a FatasticFan. - uh, should I ever buy one of these tiny RVs. To squeeze a vent fan into the Axion, I plan on raising the solar panel and mounting the fan under it. Maybe there would be space under the solar for a spare tire too (saving the trailer hitch for other things).

Feeling a bit sick as I travelled around town today, my wife pointed out how handy it would be to have a bathroom 10 feet behind us wherever we go. So maybe that is justification enough to spend so much for the smallest vehicle available with a toilet.
DougB, Sacramento

[Phoebe3]

Hope you are feeling better soon. FYI, the "bathroom 10 feet away" is the primary reason we bought a B.

The Fantastic Fan has a cover on a front hinge that raises when you turn on the fan. A solar panel would have to be lifted (probably) about 10 inches to clear the open cover.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Smith101

More Axion details from Pomona

I went back to the show today and again found Lars (last name Dudek, a Hymer rep for the northwest region) with more questions.

Nice selfie stick

[BBQ]

.

Between Smith101 and dougbaty,
we learned quite a bit about these RV this weekend.

[wincrasher]

That dangling wire to the TV antenna tells you all you need to know about the quality control on these Hymers. Appalling.

I'd be leary about using AGM batteries and the UHG. You need long absorption times to fully charge them, so that means hours running the engine. Lithium batteries just need dumb, bulk charging - amps in equals amps out. Fill them part way up and you can shut off the engine. It really shouldn't be complicated. Voltstart? That seems to still have them baffled.

[jharu]

Originally Posted by BBQ

You need 14" square for the fan.
I don't thnk you have it there.

Since these vans have A/C power at all times, can one just open the rear doors (because it is a rear bath) and hook up a standard "man blower" that you can get at COSTCO or WAL-MART? That would clear the moisture in the bath.

Of course, for venting the coach when you are sleeping, is there a work-around?

[jharu]

Absolutely great notes on the electrical and insulation aspects of the Axion and Banff.
One question for those of you who are knowledgeable -
Are there plumbing issues with the Banff and Axion?
The YouTube video that put the Sunlight to shame complained bitterly about 3 things:
a) Poor workmanship (fit and finish)
b) Insulation
c) Plumbing

Since the "Carado" models are essentially the Sonne and the Sunlight, has anybody checked out if the waste handling is like a Zion or a gravity feed like my Casita?

I have to admit, even though I was not impressed with the WGO's quality and the separate generator, it does have a "sani-flush" system that I liked.
Do the Axion and Banff compare in their "cleanliness" to the sani-flush?

[jharu]

One question for @Dougbaty -
Did you measure the ground clearance on the Axion and Banff?
How do they compare to Winnebago Travato or Roadtrek Zion?

Thanks for all the research!

[BBQ]

.

It would be nice if one can use the Aircon fan for exhaust.
Of course the fan needs to connect to DC, not AC.
Then you do not need the Fantastic Fan.

[mumkin]

Dougbaty... are you aware of the reason for the 3rd AGM battery? It is basically there to restart the Lithium batteries if they shut down for any reason... and they can be temperamental.

(I can't wait to get my solar panel stilts and put my spare tire up there... already have a Fantastic Fan)