Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Huh? Isn't Aktiv 1.0 is the same size - Like the Zion SRT? Aktiv 2.0 is the longer one.

No, this is shorter than the SRT.

This is built on the 136" wheel base.
This is only 17' long.

[mumkin]

You must have missed my post.

17'9" to be exact.

[mrshowtime3]

So what is the street price of these piles of junk? $49k would be about the highest price someone should consider them at. Because then its close enough to the price of converting your own van where you may as well just get these and upgrade them over time if wanted.

[mumkin]

What do you care since they are just a pile of junk?

[MsNomer]

To clarify, there are 4 lengths of PM available in the US. Since mine is the 136" WB, I tend to think of the others in reference to it:

136" WB has 122" floor behind the seats, a 49" side door, and 17'9" total length.
118" WB loses 18" of the side door. It is only available in low roof.
159" WB adds 23" just behind the side door
159" WB Extended adds another 14" behind the rear wheels.

Our 136" is comfortable for two adults several months at a time.

[Storysrvwego]

Re the macerating toilet, I crawled under an Axion briefly and saw what appeared to be the maceratir pump mounted right off the 22 gal grey/black combo wast tank via a 90 deg elbow. A 1.5 inch semi-fkexible hose from the outlet of the macerator pump pointed straight up and headed to the driver side of the Axion. I did not get a chance to finish tracing the plumbing but I think this hose went into a compartment where I briefly saw a THETFORD Sani-Con dump station adapter with their flexible length hose.

I did not see any gate valve but I might have missed that. i think this is a custom adaptation of THETFORD Sani-Con components, not a Turbo or other permanent mount system package from THETFORD. I also did not see a way to bypass a possible failed pump as had been done in some RV's using Sani-Con components. The Sani-Con Turbo product has gravity dump bypass built in but this version of the product is not what is in the Axion. So does anyone have a good description of the actual method of the outgoing waste management system that HYMER/CARADO has employed in the Axion?

Gene

[dougbaty]

After looking over many class B motorhomes to buy (new & used), I concluded that the Axion blends into a parking lot better than any other RV (not counting custom jobs). It doesn't shout Recreational Vehicle with side graphics and has almost no sidewall cutouts. It is short & stubby. The Alde system eliminates the typical 1 foot square plate required for a water heater. Even the coach heater chrome exhaust is gone. The Refrig is electric only (no gas cutout panels). Van color choices are conservative.

As a result, the Axion may be use for stealth overnighting in cities where a standard old campervan would be noticed. That may help justify the price for those working as a week-to-week contractor in San Francisco. A Sportsmobile Penthouse would be less tall, but you can't pop the top without calling attention to yourself.

Hymer chose to offer lots of hi-tech options in the Axion, such as UHG, dual lithium batteries, and solar panel. That combination provides lots of power. You can add a trailer hitch, but other needed options are missing.

What is missing? Well, a spare tire would be nice. Hymer provides a heavy jack and an inflator kit. What good is the jack? Bug screens on the coach doors are needed. There are no covers for the front (cab) windows. There are no seatbelts for spare passengers (Required in CA). I would like a roof rack option (like the Travato).
Visibility out the back is better than all other RVs, but is so poor the rear view mirror should be augmented with a rear view camera (backup camera is already standard, but doesn't tilt to show the horizon).
How about a car alarm? [Now standard on almost all new cars]. There is no climb-in bar near the sliding door. As noted by others, there is no vent fan near the kitchen - There is roof space available IF you don't get the solar option.

The UHG is hung way-down at the bottom of the engine and surely will be smashed while curb parking. [See "The Fit RV" for a commercial solution. James did much T&E and created multiple prototypes before being satisfied with the final design for an UHG he added to his Travato.] I expect Hymer will be seeing many returning RVs with 2nd alternator damage since the factory only protects it with a plastic cover.

Sooo, like many other new RVs, the Axion is basically a kit. I notice that Travatos are much further developed, with lots of little camping touches. Unfortunately many of those features create lots of cuts and patches in the side of the van. Travatos are also too long for a standard parking lot. The drive-in parking spaces in front of my local coffee shop are 18 feet long (I measured them). There really is no standard for parking space size, but in the suburb malls they tend to be longer. Parallel parking spots are long-ish but you need the extra length to maneuver. Parking spots with scenic views or rest areas are typically sized for a large car (18-20 feet).

The Axion is so short it could be used as a daily car, though it is a bit wide. Probably best used for weekend getaways.

FYI: This is my 1st post. I owned a pop-top RV 25 years ago.
DougB, Sacramento CA

[BBQ]

.

LOL sounds like a hired promoter.

[markopolo]

There's price / usability / suitability / comfort factor that each of us finds acceptable.

Renting is a good option for a few weekend getaways per year.

Stealth is likely overrated IMHO. Safety is more important.

I like a B camper that shouts "I'm on Vacation!"

Winnebago Revel.jpg

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by dougbaty

FYI: This is my 1st post. I owned a pop-top RV 25 years ago.
DougB, Sacramento CA

Welcome! That was an excellent first review, listing both the good and the bad. I find that everything on B's is a compromise - you just have to pick what's important to you.

Originally, we thought stealth would be important, but found that although our van is pretty noticeable (blue paint, aluminum wheels), we haven't had any problems so far. We think people assume it's supposed to be there (perhaps they think we are visiting friends nearby) and we don't stay in one place more than overnight anyway. If I wanted to park in a city for a couple of weeks, something that was a little smaller and looked like a work van would probably be preferable.

[wincrasher]

Generally people don't care what you do unless you are an eyesore or a nuisance.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Generally people don't care what you do unless you are an eyesore or a nuisance.

Hi wincrasher,

There is one more reason, Your Vehicle is just Out of Place, or there is no reason for the vehicle to be there - not necessarily an eyesore or a nuisance.

I traveled in a minivan for about 150,000 miles. I mostly stayed in inexpensive motels, but also slept in the minivan some. Me and minivan were in each of the 48 US states, 6 Canadian Provinces from Nova Scotia and Baja Mexico. I was awakened twice about 2 am in the morning by law enforcement. Why am I parked here??? Both times were no problem as I was not an eyesore or a nuisance. I could easily state and 'show' why I had parked there. They had no problem, just id and when I planned to leave.

I agree that stealth is not what some think it is, not a big time advantage. I've never had a problem with the B and have slept all kinds of different places over the last 10 years.

Bud

[ClassB4Me]

In 2015, Hymer brought their Class B to Elkhart, IN to get public reaction to what they characterized as a premium German RV coming to America.

Septemer 2017, Hymer seems to have totally rethought their NA strategy. Does anyone have any idea what happened?

Did Hymer decide to introduce more lower priced RVs in NA because they feel Roadtrek models support the premium market better in NA?

[BBQ]

.

Class B is a small segment. The big money is in the travel trailers.

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by dougbaty

After looking over many class B motorhomes to buy (new & used), I concluded that the Axion blends into a parking lot better than any other RV (not counting custom jobs). It doesn't shout Recreational Vehicle with side graphics and has almost no sidewall cutouts. It is short & stubby. The Alde system eliminates the typical 1 foot square plate required for a water heater. Even the coach heater chrome exhaust is gone. The Refrig is electric only (no gas cutout panels). Van color choices are conservative.

That's probably the most stealthy commercially produced Class B I've seen, particularly if you remove the decals. This issue comes up in our neighborhood because of HOA and city regulations that ban RV parking over 72 hours.

A couple years ago a homeowner requested permission for parking a Travato. It was discussed extensively but eventually rejected by review committee, probably because the Travato is a great unit but definitely advertises it's RV-ness with plenty of visible cutouts, roof antennae and mounts, and under-chassis protrusions. They did buy the Travato but store it offsite except for temporary trip preparation.

But three houses down from the Travato owner we have another homeowner converting a plain white 18ft DYI Promaster. It's got roof solar and racks but nobody has complained. And a couple blocks away is another owner of a silver 20ft Promaster converted by VanWorks that didn't raise any complaints. Both are pretty subtle conversions compared to traditional Class B RVs.

My guess is that Axion would pass our local HOA review, particularly if the decals were removed before they attract any 'RV' attention. Not sure if the awning would raise any concerns but it seems pretty well contoured and color matched to the van roof. And I'll bet a 20ft van with similar stealthy looks could also pass review since it would lack the 'overhang' appearance of longer RVs.

Around here there could be a significant market segment for owners that live in HOA or municipal regulated areas but still want a compact RV that can be parked at home.

[Ron J. Moore]

HOA's....the concept is good, but in some cases it is carried way too far out. When you have to ask "permission" to do almost anything with your home....gone to far! And could the rejection of one vehicle, while allowing another, be more than "rules, etc" but some petty board member. I try not to be "anti" about organizations like this type really irritate me. Ron

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

HOA's....the concept is good, but in some cases it is carried way too far out. When you have to ask "permission" to do almost anything with your home....gone to far!

Around here the HOA's were mandated as part of the planning approval process for all new developments in the last 30 years. So the choices are either a pre-1980 house, an HOA development, or an hour+ commute each way in rush hour traffic. Sort of a pick-your-poison scenario.

Basically the city said we don't want to be enforcing all the zoning minutiae, so you figure it out on a neighborhood basis.

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

And could the rejection of one vehicle, while allowing another, be more than "rules, etc" but some petty board member.

Actually the RV prohibition was part of the covenants filed with the city for the original development.

The review committee was trying to figure out how to accommodate the newer high-roof Euro style vans and provide reasonable usage without violating the original 'RV' covenant or upsetting existing homeowners. Turns out that's a bit challenging, and the Travato for example doesn't really slip in easily without attracting attention.

Like an effective team at work or any other group the HOA review committee really depends on the participation and effective teamwork of members. Having nice clean looking vans like the Carado Axion would definitely ease the committee's task.

[mumkin]

My HOA has said nothing about my 170. It has no stripes or decals, but it does have an awning and the license plate in MN says RV. But it fits in my driveway with a couple feet to spare, and no one has said a thing. There are other homeowners who have a car in their driveway.

I think the rule is more to keep people from storing boats, travel trailers, and ATVs... and filling up the guest parking areas.

[samt]

I've never owned an RV before but recently noticed the Class B group of RVs. I would like to get the smallest vehicle possible and the Axion seems to fit the bill. I know it's a new vehicle and there are some concerns about its equipment and the build quality etc. I'm still learning as much as I can about how all the systems work.

The one aspect of the Axion most concerning to me is the ventilation. I only see the one small bathroom vent fan at the rear. From what I've read most class Bs have powerful fantastic fans and people love them and can't live without them. It seems like if you're spending a lot of time in a small space you absolutely need fresh air. I asked the sales guy if you could switch out the small vent with a fantastic fan and didn't get any clear answer. He didn't even look at the roof which I think would be the first consideration. I think this issue was discussed earlier in the thread and someone mentioned that the solar panels and small size of the vehicle might have eliminated the room for the fan. There is a more stripped down version of the Axion at my local RV dealer that has no solar which could offer more options for fan modifications but you also would lose the underhood generator and lithium batteries with that one. It is $14k cheaper though.

Just wondering if you knowledgeable people think a fan modification is worth considering or it would be better to just consider an altogether different vehicle.

[Kurt]

If anyone owns one axion , what do you think?