Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion

[Smith101]

You're right the SeeGrins website is awful. Their first Axion just rolled off the truck on Wednesday, so they probably won't update for a while.

SeeGrins Roadtrek specialist is Bob Walden: 408 482 1984

He can tell you when they'll put up the listing.

[mumkin]

One is heading here to MN at Hilltop in the next 2-3 weeks.

Definitely need to see it in person... to see how much would need to be... adjusted.

But thanks...

[Smith101]

If you stay every nite in a $75/day campground a combo tank is fine.

This tiny van is not a family RV.

My guess is that this small a van is going to be used a lot as a 2-person road van, where you're going from motel to motel but want amenities on the road. A cassette toilet would negate needing to find a dump station. The gray tank wouldn't be used that much, and if you had to just dump it it's not going to endanger anybody.

It's hard to imagine this tiny unit being used as a two person camper--it seems about the right size for one, plus maybe a dog. At less developed campgrounds campers shower outdoors or dump dishwater on the ground and probably have at least vault toilets to empty the cassette but no available dump station.

A setup like the Aktiv seems ideal to me. No need to seek out/pay for a dump station and no macerator failure anxiety. It would seem easy to do here.

[GeorgeRa]

A perspective, this van is about 15” – 26.5” longer than our 77/85 VW Westfalias, our 144” WB sprinter is about 4.5’ to a whopping 5.5’ longer and we think it is small. Just wonder how we could have managed camping then with 3 kids, what have changed, hamburgers?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Billyboy46

More pictures from another Canadian dealer:

[URL="http://www.sicardrv.com/rv-inventory/new/motorhome/2017-carado-axion-axion/537757/"]

Sorry don't know how to make the link work.

Can't find anything on a Hymer website tho'.

http://www.sicardrv.com/rv-inventory...-axion/537757/

[GeorgeRa]

Interesting gymnastics to get to the bathroom at night from rather small bed. For a small van, the 44 gal of total black and grey water waste is a lot unless it is a typo.

[mrshowtime3]

Someone said it fills a niche, but there no niche for trash. Or there shouldnt be at least. This thing is price almost at what a new Travato costs. A used Travato is less money and 10x the quality!

This industry as a whole sells 95% junk. Hate to see that people keep falling into it. Buy a used unit from a good builder before buying one of these junk units new. Your investment is almost completely lost soon as you drive it off the lot.

[mumkin]

This is obviously targeting the single traveler. NOT families. Hymer was originally making the Sonne to target singles, but decided that the rig was too quirky (lots of negatives from the internet and from their dealers), so this is their re-design. Then they apparently decided to build it as a Carado... their cheap line. BUT... even so, it comes with lithium, solar, and underhood generator for those that like this new technology.

It is one 22 gallon gray/black tank. More than enough for one person. Obviously a platform this small has no space for two 22 gal tanks. LOL

It also targets those of us who can't even consider a Travato because of size. I need short... the shorter the better. Plus they don't have the underhood generator and I will never own another gawdawful Onan.

And there is obviously a niche for these... since as you pointed out the RV market is 95% trash. LOL Obviously a big market...

I've been reading for years on here and on RV Net with some people endlessly complaining that there are no cheap options for those that don't want or can't afford Corian or marble counter tops and such fancy expensive conversions. Well... here's an option for them.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by mumkin

This is obviously targeting the single traveler. NOT families. Hymer was originally making the Sonne to target singles, but decided that the rig was too quirky (lots of negatives from the internet and from their dealers), so this is their re-design. Then they apparently decided to build it as a Carado... their cheap line. BUT... even so, it comes with lithium, solar, and underhood generator for those that like this new technology.

It is one 22 gallon gray/black tank. More than enough for one person. Obviously a platform this small has no space for two 22 gal tanks. LOL

It also targets those of us who can't even consider a Travato because of size. I need short... the shorter the better. Plus they don't have the underhood generator and I will never own another gawdawful Onan.

And there is obviously a niche for these... since as you pointed out the RV market is 95% trash. LOL Obviously a big market...

I've been reading for years on here and on RV Net with some people endlessly complaining that there are no cheap options for those that don't want or can't afford Corian or marble counter tops and such fancy expensive conversions. Well... here's an option for them.

For a single person, this is likely a perfect layout van. Just from pictures it is difficult to judge the fit and finish but I would assume Hymer has already learned from their experience with their Camping World venture.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

...but I would assume Hymer has already learned from their experience with their Camping World venture.

That may be an inaccurate assumption as they are still building and selling the Sunlight/Banff in CA and the US. The Axion has a few fixes in the galley area I noted in the photo. Hard to tell where else. Time will tell...

[EsotericSnowman]

From all the photos I've seen of this thing I can't find a roof vent anywhere. Did they sacrifice the vent for space for the solar panel?

[mumkin]

After looking at all the photos that I could find online. The AC seems to be in the usual Fantastic Fan spot over the galley. In front of it seems to be the solar panel.

Perhaps they could have put one in the bathroom... instead of the tiny round bathroom fan. Not much roof real estate, but a solar panel is a need, not a want for me.

[booster]

For those of us with the older Roadtreks that have aisle shower/baths, it is refreshing to see variations of the same on new models.

On any unit that you want to maximize storage, having the shower in the aisle is probably the biggest thing you can do.

[mumkin]

I've been watching the Axions arrive at various dealerships... one place in Canada, Sicard, mentioned early in this thread has 4 or 5 of them. A few were popping up at US dealerships. Today the local Hymer dealership called and said that one had arrived. So I am driving up to see and test drive it tomorrow.

[Smith101]

Mumkin, look forward to your report. Ask about ventilation. Is there a gravity dump as well? A couple more have shown up here in California and they all seem to have similar equipment: solar, lithium 400, upgraded chassis, no Voltstart. MSRPs in low $80s. Maybe you could find out the time for special orders. Thanks

[mumkin]

I toured and test drove the Axion today. As we already discussed here, it is very similar to the Sunlight. It does have a better galley with the recessed/covered burners. The extensions for the counter that the Sunlight lacks. Same bathroom... same cabinetry, only dark. There is a bathroom door that slides out - not terribly sturdy. (the Sunlight uses the wardrobe doors.) As seems true of every one on the internet at dealers so far, it had Eco, GU and solar. Don't know about VS.

They have tidied up the cushion situation, so that there are fewer bits to fit together. As a single, it is only 24.5 inches, but that could be quite easily extended to fit the 27" mattress that I used in my Libero.

Ventilation? By this you mean a fantastic fan? Nope... none to be seen and nowhere to put it. Right now it is just the little round standard bathroom fan as one can see in most of the online photos. I will add to my list of questions if they would consider a change out as an option. This rig is so small that the little one may work fine.

The windows are the standard sliders currently also used in RT Zions. (the ones with the tendency to leak)

It has the macerating toilet. I'm not really familiar with these, but down on the driver's side, there is a door with a box holding what looks like the Sani-con black hose and end unit. I looked under the rear and noticed that there is what appears to be a standard end for doing a gravity dump... maybe... but not easy to reach. But perhaps an option if the macerator dies. I will add this to my question list.

I didn't even ask the MSRP because it had things that I wouldn't want... like the lithiums and a TV. I never talk price until I get all the questions answered.

No ceiling lights as such. Three of the little RT push lights over the sofa and one over the galley. The tank light system is different. Not sure if this means that they've updated to exterior tank readers.

On the side of the sofa frame near the floor are a set of outlets. One 12 v, one for phones and such... and a standard 110 double (saw another of those behind the passenger seat near the sliding door... for outside use I guess. I didn't really inventory, so there may be one or two more somewhere.

No idea on the timeline for orders. It is on my list of questions for the district rep. The dealer is new to Hymer and as usual, no informational paperwork was included. I don't think the brochure has even been finalized yet. I have the phone number of the rep for this area, and I will give him a call if I don't catch him on Facebook.

Best thing about it? It is a fun drive. It is an SUV, not an RV. Peppy and responsive.

Biggest downside for me is that it just might be too small. The need for a bit more storage may push me towards the Activ.

[scubastevee]

Hi,

Mumkin's assessment is right on the mark. I actually went to Sicard RV yesterday and saw all of the Axion, Banff and Aktiv models they had.

Axion

When it first came out I was very interested but now that I've seen it, first hand, there is no chance I will purchase it.

1. best suited for 1 person only.
2. suspect build quality with flimsy side panelling, limited insulation and many areas inside the RV that will shake and rattle while driving down the road
3. Yes, they sorted out the bed cushion design, but why release it with such an unworkable design in the first place?

On the plus side is the design works ... for 1 person.
Bathroom actually has room for a person to take a stand up shower!

Banff

When it first came out I was very interested but now that I've seen it first hand, there is no chance I will purchase it.

1. Suspect build quality same issues as the Axion
2. Couch/beds are uncomfortable "as is" to be sitting in for any length of time. Yes, you can do something such as add pillows but you shouldn't need to, not with how much these cost!

Something positive ... More open design
Ample storage under the passenger side bed
Usable bathroom

I currently own a 2004 Great West Vans Supreme Classic RV and am looking to get a newer RV with the technology to go with it. Currently only Road Trek & Hymer offer the technology that I am looking for. C'mon Winnebago, jump on the band wagon!!

The Hymer Aktiv is a better choice but ... current owners have paid the price for all of the design flaws ... flaws that a company like Hymer know better to allow. The Aktiv I saw yesterday appears to have corrected some of the known issues I have read on this board but ... still think another 1 or 2 model years is when they'll have worked out all of these flaws. So disappointing coming from an European company with such a good reputation and designs from across the pond. North America, we continue to get 2nd rate designs and builds ... from all of the major manufacturers.

For those thinking of buying the Axion or Banff, you know the saying ... buyer beware.

Cheers,

Steve

[mumkin]

Yes, definitely a step down in quality from your GWV when it was new. I loved the interior of my 2004 (and it was a side sofa), but it was a horror to drive. (hated the Ford handling) It actually had the same white cabinetry that I had in my house. LOL

I definitely agree that the Axion is a one person van and that is the target from Hymer. This unit was rather an experiment to clear their inventory of units that were planned to become the Sonne... that got cancelled. It too was directed at single females. But this is a much better bathroom design... very roomy. And the galley is much better - actually usable - than the Banff/Sunlight.

The price point is about $25k less than the Activ... similarly equipped with EcoTrek, solar, underhood generator.

One thought that I had is... the warranty on the the Carado models is only two years. At that low price point, one could just strip out much of it - once the warranty is dead - and have it rebuilt to a better standard. You've got the basics... the van, appliances, etc. Add some insulation and nice cabinetry.

The other thought that I had was that they should have done a better interior build... and use the tried and true AGMs, regular toilet and gravity dump (instead of expensive macerator toilet), traditional hot water heater and suburban furnace instead of the expensive Alde. Make the underhood generator, solar, Alde, and Ecotreks options. In other words, start with a higher quality platform with basic systems - and still a nice low price point - and let the buyers choose which expensive options they want or need.

I can't understand why they haven't hired me to fix all this.

All that said, I think it is a bit too small for me. I need more storage for my migrations between AZ and MN. The Activ has enough, but it is a foot longer.

[wincrasher]

Huh? Isn't Aktiv 1.0 is the same size - Like the Zion SRT? Aktiv 2.0 is the longer one.

[mumkin]

The Activ 1.0, Zion SRT, and Banff/Sunlight are all on the same platform... the 19'6" foot Promaster

The Axion is on the smallest Promaster. It is 17'9" - only a foot longer than my old Toyota Sienna. Which is why it is seriously like driving an SUV.

So, I wasn't totally accurate. The Activ is 1'9" longer than the Axion.