Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion

[falfal3]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

For shore power,
you MUST turn on the inverter BEFORE plugging the cable in the socket.

I know this is crazy... so many little things to remember.

I have not found that to be the case.

[falfal3]

Originally Posted by kmrotterdam

Goodness, I have to remember all of this!
Inverter & EcoTreks on when on shore power, but inverter off when driving, but EcoTreks remain on. And don't forget to turn EcoTreks off when you've arrived at your destination!

Sorry , I didn't explain that well, let me try again and remember the GU puts out DC. you MAY have inverter on while driving but it is not necessary to charge the batteries. (leave it on if you wish). Think of the inverter as a battery charger, your battery charger, at home, won't charge your car's battery unless what? Unless it is on. Think of shore power cable as an extension cord for your charger (inverter). Got it now?

[GeorgeRa]

An inverter takes 12VDC and converts to 120VAC. An inverter/charger combination does the same plus it takes 120VAC and converts it to DC charging current if 120VAC is available.

[falfal3]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

An inverter takes 12VDC and converts to 120VAC. An inverter/charger combination does the same plus it takes 120VAC and converts it to DC charging current if 120VAC is available.

Okey doke but try charging your Ecotrek 400 without turning inverter switch on when connected to shore power. Here's a hint, nothing happens but solar charging.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by falfal3

Okey doke but try charging your Ecotrek 400 without turning inverter switch on when connected to shore power. Here's a hint, nothing happens but solar charging.

Yes, you have the inverter/charger George mentioned where the inverter and shore battery charger are contained in the same box. For the one in your van, it needs to be turned on to get it to invert and to charge.

[wincrasher]

Sounds to me that with this system, you are probably going to have one battery with a ton of cycles on it - all with deep discharges, and a second with relatively few and most likely shallow discharges. Are those of you with the 400 ah system keeping track of the usage of each pack and try to keep it relatively even?

[booster]

Just because the inverter and charger are in the same box doesn't normally mean they both have to be on all the time. The Roadtrek unit is very much an outlier in that respect.

Most inverter/chargers automatically start to charge when they see shore power, and have a separate switch to turn on the inverter. Our Magnum has remote switches for both inverter and charger

The Roadtrek setup is likely a change to compensate for some other issue in the design, as no one else seems to do it.

Nearly all of us keep the inverter section off, except when we need inverted power off the batteries, as it saves a lot of power, and plugging into shore power is seemless.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by booster

Just because the inverter and charger are in the same box doesn't normally mean they both have to be on all the time. The Roadtrek unit is very much an outlier in that respect.

Most inverter/chargers automatically start to charge when they see shore power, and have a separate switch to turn on the inverter. Our Magnum has remote switches for both inverter and charger

The Roadtrek setup is likely a change to compensate for some other issue in the design, as no one else seems to do it.

Nearly all of us keep the inverter section off, except when we need inverted power off the batteries, as it saves a lot of power, and plugging into shore power is seemless.

I think the RT inverter simply works the same way as the generic version of the inverter and they don’t get it changed. All the instruction manuals for the generic version of that inverter seem to be applicable to the RT delivered version.

[jbxr7]

I was told by Carado customer service today that the newer Axions have the newer Alde 3020 furnace rather than the 3010. The older Alde 3010 had possible trouble mixing air/fuel above 3300 ft. Not sure when they upgraded this.

I have a Travato 59GL on order but delivery isn't until around late October. That's a long time to have second thoughts lol. The newer Axions might be tempting if they have some bugs worked out.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by jbxr7

I was told by Carado customer service today that the newer Axions have the newer Alde 3020 furnace rather than the 3010. The older Alde 3010 had possible trouble mixing air/fuel above 3300 ft. Not sure when they upgraded this.

I have a Travato 59GL on order but delivery isn't until around late October. That's a long time to have second thoughts lol. The newer Axions might be tempting if they have some bugs worked out.

Not even apples and oranges. The Travato is alot more van for the money - especially the L. The electrical systems do not compare at all - just look at the battery capacities and charging systems. But the real deal breaker is the Axion's shared black/gray tank - the whole idea is disgusting and potentially very problematic.

[warpig]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

But the real deal breaker is the Axion's shared black/gray tank - the whole idea is disgusting and potentially very problematic.

Can you elaborate on this? It's 21 gallons and probably holds more than if there were two separate tanks. Plus, it only requires one dumping. Just so it's clear, I'm not challenging you but sincerely want to know what I'm overlooking.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by warpig

Can you elaborate on this? It's 21 gallons and probably holds more than if there were two separate tanks. Plus, it only requires one dumping. Just so it's clear, I'm not challenging you but sincerely want to know what I'm overlooking.

A separate black and grey tank still only takes one dumping but an extra pull of a blade valve. The principle is you dump your black tank first and then your grey tank. The soapy grey tank water pretty much takes care of flushing out your hose and thus less clean up. Also, I questioned whether you get more with a combined tank. For one two separate tanks can be located under a van to create more volume than one single tank that has to be tied directly to a toilet. Also, a lot of black tanks are above or semi-above the floor under the toilet. If you combine tanks then every drain such as kitchen sink, lavatory and shower floor is at risk to backing up, especially the shower floor, or creating a much more fouler odor than just a grey tank can produce. Many RVs had combined tanks in the past. My 1972 Airstream trailer did, but that has pretty much gone away except with the cheapest builds to save money.

[warpig]

Originally Posted by Davydd

A separate black and grey tank still only takes one dumping but an extra pull of a blade valve. The principle is you dump your black tank first and then your grey tank. The soapy grey tank water pretty much takes care of flushing out your hose and thus less clean up. Also, I questioned whether you get more with a combined tank. For one two separate tanks can be located under a van to create more volume than one single tank that has to be tied directly to a toilet. Also, a lot of black tanks are above or semi-above the floor under the toilet. If you combine tanks then every drain such as kitchen sink, lavatory and shower floor is at risk to backing up, especially the shower floor, or creating a much more fouler odor than just a grey tank can produce. Many RVs had combined tanks in the past. My 1972 Airstream trailer did, but that has pretty much gone away except with the cheapest builds to save money.

Thanks. That makes sense, especially with a back-up potentially resulting in an unsafe and foul situation. That's why I love the site. I'm always learning.

[BBQ]

.

NO NO NO You don't need a back up to wake up... you don't want to imagine even the remote possibility of the black tank venting into your kitchen sink (or shower drain). It will be ugly.

[avanti]

We have been through this repeatedly in the past, but ok, let's do it again:

I have owned B vans with both single and dual tanks. A single tank is vastly superior in almost every way. Just about everything said above to the contrary is nonsense:
1) OBVIOUSLY, all else being equal, you can fit much more capacity in a given space with a single tank than with two. To suggest otherwise is crazy talk. Yes, the tiny black tank capacity that extends above the floor under the toilet provide a bit of capacity, but it is insignificant compared to the space gained.
2) Your kitchen sink is 3 feet above the top of your tank. It is physically impossible to back up into it. Your toilet would be overflowing long before that. And in any event, there are simple plumbing fixtures to make such things impossible.
3) Single tanks have NOT "pretty much gone away except with the cheapest builds to save money." There was a single tank in my previous Airstream Interstate, which was probably the highest price B-van available when I bought it.
4) The whole "use the gray tank to flush the black tank" is a red herring. With a single tank, there is plenty of liquid from the get-go, so no such flushing is ever necessary. This is the biggest single advantage of a single tank.
5) Gray tanks are often at least as smelly as black tanks. I am not sure why, but it has been observed by many people. Totally irrelevant in any event, since a properly vented and sealed system does not smell.
6) The extra convenience, while not life-changing, is non-trivial.
7) Your capacity is automatically optimized--no chance of having to dump just because one or the other tank is full with space in the other.
8 ) It saves money and there is less to break.

There are NO valid arguments in favor of dual tanks. The ONLY reason we ever had them is because there used to be only a black tank (because folks used to dump grey water on the ground), and it was easier to add a gray tank then to properly re-engineer the plumbing for a single tank. The only reason we still have them is that this is the most conservative industry on the planet.

The whole argument is silly. It just doesn't hold up to rational examination, and it certainly doesn't hold up to experience, as I can attest. (And, we have been repeatedly lectured about the importance of direct experience over speculation, huh?).

[gregmchugh]

Welcome fans, we are here at the Forum for a no holds barred debate. In the far corner is the two tank team and in the near corner is the one tank team. At the Bell come out with your best shots. After twelve rounds we will have a decision unless there is a knockout...

Ding...

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Welcome fans, we are here at the Forum for a no holds barred debate. In the far corner is the two tank team and in the near corner is the one tank team. At the Bell come out with your best shots. After twelve rounds we will have a decision unless there is a knockout...

Ding...

The composting team wants to join in too

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by BBQ

The composting team wants to join in too

Let’s not forget about cassettes, AGM or LI, Solar no Solar, but stealth camping is my favor oxymoron.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BBQ

The composting team wants to join in too

Let's not forget the minimalists:

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

The composting team wants to join in too

If they join then we would have to add the cassette team too 😀