Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion

[Smith101]

Originally Posted by kmrotterdam

I'm looking to buy an Axion at the end of June in a few weeks, and after reading about the lithium problems (parasitic draw of the BMS), I'd rather just have the 200 watts of solar with AGM batteries, but I cannot find a single Axion on RVTrader that does NOT have the lithium option; it seems like it has become standard. Has any found an Axion for sale with just solar and AGM batteries?
Also the price range is incredible: from $69K to $90K.

Just call Hymer. They track all unsold units.

[kmrotterdam]

Thanks, I'll call tomorrow!

[mumkin]

I have never seen an Axion without lithiums... and when I asked them about this a year or so ago, they declared no special orders. I found it a bit bizarre.

Found it odd that with the Carado/Sunlight models that were supposed low priced entry level, they filled with this expensive option.

Hopefully there is one hiding out there somewhere and they can locate it for you.

[warpig]

From the dealership closest to me in PA, I was quoted a price in the low 60s for the lithium model. Don't settle for a price unless it's closer to the 60 end of things because deals are out there. Soon, the 2019s will be on the lot and there are 2017s still on lots. Good luck!

[kmrotterdam]

Is that Fretz?? They are advertising $74K for a 2017 and can you believe it, they are advertising $90K for a 2019!!! I called Leo's RV in Gambrill's MD and they want $77K for a 2018 with lithium. I want to buy end-June or early-July, but there were great deals on Axions at the Hershey Show last year, and I'm wondering is it better to wait til then?
I might fly to Iowa, as they advertise for $69K for 2017s with lithium batteries.

I called corporate Carado, and they have no idea who has models with AGM, so I have decided to just get one with lithium and deal with the battery management issues -- there seems to be little price difference, although it's supposed to by almost a $9K option.

[warpig]

Not Fretz. Beaver Springs. Not too far from Altoona. Ask for Keegan. He seemed like a pretty cool dude.

[warpig]

They don't have a web site. They just use rvtrader. Here's the link.
https://www.rvtrader.com/rv-dealers/...id=5000000023&

[kite_rider]

Originally Posted by kmrotterdam

I have decided to just get one with lithium and deal with the battery management issues -- there seems to be little price difference, although it's supposed to by almost a $9K option.

Well, if you go this route and don't want to deal with the batteries; I'll take your new lithiums setup and buy you some AGM to replace them. I've been curious about them and seem to have landed one of the few rigs without them...

[kmrotterdam]

Thanks for the offer, but I'm likely to buy the model with the lithiums, as I've contacted numerous dealers today, and the lithium option seems standard now and is priced in the new dealer asking prices. You're not finding any Axions in the $59K range these days, because they all have lithium batteries, UG, and solar. I spoke with someone in sales at Carado corporate this morning, and that is the direction they have taken. He did say that a special order through a dealer may be possible.
One interesting note: he said Carado initially tried to sell the Axions through car dealerships, because they are so small and could be used a daily driver, but they did not get sufficient interest.

[kmrotterdam]

Just re-reading your post, not sure if you meant to put smiley faces to show you were kidding: "I'll take your new lithiums setup and buy you some AGM to replace ..." take out a $9K option for a couple of AGMs lol

[mumkin]

The lithium package ... 2 modules of 200... is $5000, not $9,000. The price has dropped from just over $3K each when they first came out to about $2500 each.

[silex840]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

You can get a remote display for the solar controller that is typically installed by Roadtrek/Hymer. For AGM batteries, when you are camped, a reasonable strategy is to use your underhood generator for the bulk charge phase early in the day and then let the solar handle the several hours of absorption charging to get to full charge.

I’ll have to poke around and figure out what solar charge controller that is.

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Thanks for posting the inverter manual. I too want to have the status panel from the inverter relocated to a place where I can actually read it. For the axion, I think it would fit in the space where the existing voltage gauge is.

The manual seems to indicate that you can relocate the panel by disconnecting it and 'using the remote cable supplied'. This is under the heading; "Install Remote Control". Well I can say that the Axion owners were not supplied this remote cable, but I'm hoping some smart person out there can point me to a place where I can get said cable (or details about making one).

Unfortunately on second look it’s the switch that’s relocatable and not the LCD screen. Look at the last photo on the last page which makes it more clear. So back to the drawing board. We will still need an aftermarket SOC gauge.

[Smith101]

Originally Posted by mumkin

I have never seen an Axion without lithiums... and when I asked them about this a year or so ago, they declared no special orders. I found it a bit bizarre.

Found it odd that with the Carado/Sunlight models that were supposed low priced entry level, they filled with this expensive option.

Hopefully there is one hiding out there somewhere and they can locate it for you.

When I bought my Axion in Oct., it was one of two at Mike Thompson that were the AGM only models which also did not have the TV. I had my lithiums and GU added.

La Mesa website shows they have a "used" Axion for $59,998 with less than 500 miles on it in Phoenix. Pics show it has the TV so it probably has lithiums too.

[Smith101]

Originally Posted by kmrotterdam

Thanks, I'll call tomorrow!

There is a non-lithium Axion for sale at Alpin Haus in Amsterdam NY

https://www.rvt.com/Hymer-Erwin-Hyme...45640-UX261820

They probably paid about $55k for it, so you ought to be able to get it for $60k or less.

[kmrotterdam]

Originally Posted by Smith101

There is a non-lithium Axion for sale at Alpin Haus in Amsterdam NY

https://www.rvt.com/Hymer-Erwin-Hyme...45640-UX261820

They probably paid about $55k for it, so you ought to be able to get it for $60k or less.

Thanks for the tip. I just called them and they're going to get back to me as they are not sure if it is AGM or lithium but it has been on their lot for over 200 days and it has almost 600 miles on it so he's also going to let me know if it was a rental. To me, that means there might be some more leverage for negotiation, according to the options.

[Smith101]

Originally Posted by kmrotterdam

Thanks for the tip. I just called them and they're going to get back to me as they are not sure if it is AGM or lithium but it has been on their lot for over 200 days and it has almost 600 miles on it so he's also going to let me know if it was a rental. To me, that means there might be some more leverage for negotiation, according to the options.

The pricing they show looks exactly like my msrp sheet, so I can assure you there are no lithium’s. However, be aware that the non lithium models have the same control panel with “lithium” labeled switches that are not wired. If they look at the control panel they might think it’s a lithium model but it’s not. If they look underneath they will see only one battery box instead of 3. There won’t be a GU either.

[kmrotterdam]

Originally Posted by Smith101

The pricing they show looks exactly like my msrp sheet, so I can assure you there are no lithium’s. However, be aware that the non lithium models have the same control panel with “lithium” labeled switches that are not wired. If they look at the control panel they might think it’s a lithium model but it’s not. If they look underneath they will see only one battery box instead of 3. There won’t be a GU either.

You are exactly right. It has no lithium's, no solar, and no under hood generator. He said that the 500 miles are due to them shuttling it between two of their dealerships. I think unless they're willing to go down on price, they're lbasically asking the same price as some dealers who have Axions with all the options and that's why this unit has been on their various dealor lots for a long time.

Instead, he tried to interest me in two Banfs that they have with lithium and all the bells and whistles for $59K.

[Smith101]

Originally Posted by kmrotterdam

You are exactly right. It has no lithium's, no solar, and no under hood generator. He said that the 500 miles are due to them shuttling it between two of their dealerships. I think unless they're willing to go down on price, they're lbasically asking the same price as some dealers who have Axions with all the options and that's why this unit has been on their various dealor lots for a long time.

Instead, he tried to interest me in two Banfs that they have with lithium and all the bells and whistles for $59K.

If you're not in a hurry, you might do better to wait for the Hershey show Sep. 12-16. There will be Hymer people there to sweeten deals. I bought mine at the Pomona show. The msrp was $73k and I offered them $58k but only if they would throw in the lithiums and GU. They said yes.

The downside was that it took forever to get the lithiums from Canada. Then there were a few bugs, but by February everything was working fine.

BTW at that time they said the next batch of Axions would, like the Banff, not have the chassis upgrade--nav, backup camera, alloys, etc. The first batch of Axions had the upgrade because they were intended to be Hymer Sonnes which were canceled.

The Banff, being larger, can accommodate the traditional furnace/water heater which wouldn't fit in the Axion--so the Axion gets the Alde, which IMO is preferable. It's efficient and quiet. It's an upgrade on some Roadtreks.

You can always make an offer that would make you happy. The worse that can happen is that they say no.

Best of luck!

[silex840]

How did I miss 2 pages of responses! Back to the drawing board... This thread has seriously turned into the most invaluable reference for research leading up to the decision to buy this specific model as well as how to even go about purchasing for the best price possible. And now the upkeep afterwards!

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Silex, it's under the seat/bed and mounted near the inverter. Took a quick shot of and attached (sorry for poor photo quality).

I was going to send you the link for this on Amazon, I think this MPPT controller was priced at $180 more or less. I'll send you the factory manual (pdf) if you didn't get one with your kit.

After I discovered that the controller wasn't installed we went back to the RV dealer and pointed it out. To be honest, we have the base model and solar is an upgrade option. However, when my wife bought the van the sales guy told us this model had the 'optional' solar already (probably since you could see the panels mounted on the roof). He seemed as shocked (no pun intended) as we were that everything seemed to be installed minus the controller and was able to get the controller from Hymer and install it for us. If you wanted to just go buy a charge controller and install it, it would be very easy if it's all wired up like mine was. Again, it was really weird; it looked like it had been installed but taken out. All of the wires were there and holes were already drilled in the exact position.

Mine is missing too! Yes please inbox the factory manual. Ok I better call the dealer. I’m pretty positive at this point that you and I have identical base units. No wonder my solar never seemed to be charging the coach battery! It was never hooked up! As a backup plan, is the one to buy the 1210A in the Amazon link bundled with the MT50 gauge?

Originally Posted by mumkin

You must be new to discussion boards. A 27 page thread will very likely have wandered into side discussions of Carado Banff, Sunlight Van One, Hymer Activs, technical battery/inverter topics that don't relate to this model, any or all Roadtrek issues for the last 15 years... and... and...

Yes, it would be nice is everyone stayed directly on topic, but just like a face-to-face conversation... perfection is never expected nor achieved.

Why yes just call me an idealist, not a realist

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Here is the remote display that plugs into your solar controller...

https://www.amazon.com/Display-Suita...ds=mt-50+meter

Dude you are like a god to me
The charge controller is cheap enough to buy even as a backup if the dealer won’t cooperate!

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Hey, you just gave me an idea about to kill my battery.

Actually, I'm going to turn on my inverter tonight to see what happens. One thing I've been meaning tell every new Axion owner is to be very careful with the way you set up your Alde boiler. The controller is cryptic and if you accidentally turn on the electrical heat option it will almost certainly drain your battery. Even if the heat wasn't on, it still uses a ton of juice to heat the water. The proper way to set up (if not connected to external power, or even if you are) is to have the gas flame icon 'on' and the lightning bolt icon 'off'.

On the very rare night that I actually connected external power I was pleased with it's performance. Shower was hot and the heater worked fine with the gas off. It has a setting for how much power to draw and setting '2' popped the 20 amp breaker I was connected to (had other appliances going at the same time..). Setting '1' was fine for everything. I don't think I'd use the 120V mode much though, that thing is remarkably efficient on propane.

I say that because I can almost guarantee that there will be many Axion owners who will unwittingly have that enabled when they have the inverter on but only connected to battery. Way too easy to do and the 'walkthrough' people at the RV dealer don't mention it.

You’re welcome? so what happened that night?
I found out the hard way about leaving the Alde battery option on the Axion. Thanks for verifying it so that I didn’t think I was losing it!

Originally Posted by Smith101

If you're not in a hurry, you might do better to wait for the Hershey show Sep. 12-16. There will be Hymer people there to sweeten deals. I bought mine at the Pomona show. The msrp was $73k and I offered them $58k but only if they would throw in the lithiums and GU. They said yes.

The downside was that it took forever to get the lithiums from Canada. Then there were a few bugs, but by February everything was working fine.

BTW at that time they said the next batch of Axions would, like the Banff, not have the chassis upgrade--nav, backup camera, alloys, etc. The first batch of Axions had the upgrade because they were intended to be Hymer Sonnes which were canceled.

The Banff, being larger, can accommodate the traditional furnace/water heater which wouldn't fit in the Axion--so the Axion gets the Alde, which IMO is preferable. It's efficient and quiet. It's an upgrade on some Roadtreks.

You can always make an offer that would make you happy. The worse that can happen is that they say no.

Best of luck!

I learned this too that RV shows are bar none the way to get the best deals. I missed Pomona so I got lucky with my slighty used, base Axion at a dealer. You’re suspicion about the chassis upgrades is also the reason I decided to opt for a 2017 model now versus waiting for a 2018 in a few months or possibly the 2019 if they skip a year.

[kmrotterdam]

Thanks. I also read and heard from various sources that the new Axions will not have the upgraded chassis, so I'm definitely buying one with the upgrades. I'm toying with the idea of waiting til the Hershey show (there were some good deals on Axions last year), but it's a gamble, b/c you never know what'll be there. At the moment, I'd be happy paying $67K at the of this month for an Axion with all the options.