Tiniest Hymer Promaster Carrado/Axion - Page 14

gregmchugh · 06-01-2018, 04:53 AM

We now return to regularly scheduled programming...

silex840 · 06-02-2018, 08:02 AM

Did I incorrectly assume there was space for four more AGM batteries? On a more power monitoring tone of this thread, how do you guys upgrade to something that monitors SOC? I peeked around the electrical system and took photos of the 2000w inverter but for the life of me can’t figure out what brand it is. I heard these things could have a remote LCD setup to mirror the screen on the unit itself. Is this true? The 12v gauge just isn’t cutting it.

mumkin · 06-02-2018, 01:45 PM

I've lost track... Are we still talking about an Axion? I can't even imagine where you would add 4 more AGMs.

I suppose that you could give up most of the galley storage... or most of the lower cabinet in the bathroom?

Lack of storage is why I removed it from my list of possibilities.

Then you would also need to consider weight distribution I would think.

gregmchugh · 06-02-2018, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silex840

Did I incorrectly assume there was space for four more AGM batteries? On a more power monitoring tone of this thread, how do you guys upgrade to something that monitors SOC? I peeked around the electrical system and took photos of the 2000w inverter but for the life of me can’t figure out what brand it is. I heard these things could have a remote LCD setup to mirror the screen on the unit itself. Is this true? The 12v gauge just isn’t cutting it.

I don’t think there is any way to add four more batteries, maybe one more if you only have one now.

The inverter is a rebranded Chinese device and manuals are available online for the generic version, here is one example but there are others out there...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/04...SER_MANUAL.pdf

No one has found a source for the remote display designed for these inverters and people have been looking for a long time.

For a SOC battery monitor you can look at Trimetric or Victron which use a shunt which should be easy to add to your batteries since it appears you don’t have lithium.

If you want to get a lot more info, I suggest you join the Roadtrek & Hymer Owners Group on Facebook where there are a lot of owners of similar vans who can give you info.

kite_rider · 06-02-2018, 04:27 PM

Thanks for posting the inverter manual. I too want to have the status panel from the inverter relocated to a place where I can actually read it. For the axion, I think it would fit in the space where the existing voltage gauge is.

The manual seems to indicate that you can relocate the panel by disconnecting it and 'using the remote cable supplied'. This is under the heading; "Install Remote Control". Well I can say that the Axion owners were not supplied this remote cable, but I'm hoping some smart person out there can point me to a place where I can get said cable (or details about making one).

kite_rider · 06-02-2018, 04:35 PM

Regarding a place to locate additional batteries; there are mounts under the Axion for two of the optional lithium batteries that Hymer makes. These mounts could be repurposed to hold additional batteries. The location is good for weight distribution since they are low and near the center of the van.

Personally I'm going to have no more than two batteries at most when I upgrade. I may even just go with a single 200Ah AGM. The goal with any new battery is to get it a bit higher off the ground than the current AGM that is located near the back axle.

By the way, the people who have said that these AGM's are resilient even when they are abused were not kidding. I thought I would have killed this battery by now and it just keeps going....

silex840 · 06-02-2018, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mumkin

I've lost track... Are we still talking about an Axion? I can't even imagine where you would add 4 more AGMs.

I suppose that you could give up most of the galley storage... or most of the lower cabinet in the bathroom?

Lack of storage is why I removed it from my list of possibilities.

Then you would also need to consider weight distribution I would think.

This is the Axion thread is it not? We should always be somehow relating every discussion to the Axion

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I don’t think there is any way to add four more batteries, maybe one more if you only have one now.

The inverter is a rebranded Chinese device and manuals are available online for the generic version, here is one example but there are others out there...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/04...SER_MANUAL.pdf

No one has found a source for the remote display designed for these inverters and people have been looking for a long time.

For a SOC battery monitor you can look at Trimetric or Victron which use a shunt which should be easy to add to your batteries since it appears you don’t have lithium.

If you want to get a lot more info, I suggest you join the Roadtrek & Hymer Owners Group on Facebook where there are a lot of owners of similar vans who can give you info.

I have heard of both brands and will look into them! I am a member of that FB group, but haven't had a chance to dig into it. Thanks for the reminder!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Regarding a place to locate additional batteries; there are mounts under the Axion for two of the optional lithium batteries that Hymer makes. These mounts could be repurposed to hold additional batteries. The location is good for weight distribution since they are low and near the center of the van.

Personally I'm going to have no more than two batteries at most when I upgrade. I may even just go with a single 200Ah AGM. The goal with any new battery is to get it a bit higher off the ground than the current AGM that is located near the back axle.

By the way, the people who have said that these AGM's are resilient even when they are abused were not kidding. I thought I would have killed this battery by now and it just keeps going....

Bingo! Thanks for clearing that up! I went under the van and I swore I couldn't fix a box in near the center... I see the folded sheetmetal box near the back though and I'm guessing that's the 105Ah coach battery in there? So if using additional AGM that need to wired in parallel and mounted in the center, it sounds like cables need to be run to the back which could be a PITA.

Curious, but how do you recharge typically? I'm finding the only way to get it done right is to connect to shore power every once in awhile. Oh, and don't be stupid like me and accidentally leave the inverter on overnight which is easy to do since it needs to be switched on to charge from shore power. Easy to forget to switch it off upon unplugging. Seriously wish this was more automated.

kite_rider · 06-02-2018, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silex840

Curious, but how do you recharge typically? I'm finding the only way to get it done right is to connect to shore power every once in awhile. Oh, and don't be stupid like me and accidentally leave the inverter on overnight which is easy to do since it needs to be switched on to charge from shore power. Easy to forget to switch it off upon unplugging. Seriously wish this was more automated.

Hopefully you meant to say that you accidentally left it 'off' overnight rather than 'on'. As you say, it needs to be 'on' to charge and for the appliances to work too - that was counter intuitive for me too.

On the battery wiring, if you added a second battery (or more) to the original battery by the axle, you just need to connect the batteries (easy) and use the already installed battery cable.

I'm not positive on this, but I thought I saw a fat cable already mounted on an insulator near the mounts for the optional lithium batteries; so that should be an easy connection too. I think the ground side was just attached to the frame down there (again double check on that first).

Per the charging; like I've said before - I actually wanted to kill this battery so I never charge it. The 220A upgraded alternator that comes with the Axion is pretty stout; it seems to keep this thing charged. I don't know if you have the solar option or not; but if you do (and if the charge controller is actually installed - mine wasn't initially) that seems to keep you charged too.

silex840 · 06-03-2018, 01:38 AM

I’ve done both, but I actually meant I left the inverter on, because I unplugged the shore power to move the coach and go in for the night. Thus I forgot to switch off the inverter and it drained the coach battery. Lesson to be learned on both accounts haha.

I do have solar even though my trim is the base model. Speaking of the solar charge controller, where is it?! Where did you get yours kite_rider?

gregmchugh · 06-03-2018, 02:58 AM

You can get a remote display for the solar controller that is typically installed by Roadtrek/Hymer. For AGM batteries, when you are camped, a reasonable strategy is to use your underhood generator for the bulk charge phase early in the day and then let the solar handle the several hours of absorption charging to get to full charge.

mumkin · 06-03-2018, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silex840

This is the Axion thread is it not? We should always be somehow relating every discussion to the Axion

You must be new to discussion boards. A 27 page thread will very likely have wandered into side discussions of Carado Banff, Sunlight Van One, Hymer Activs, technical battery/inverter topics that don't relate to this model, any or all Roadtrek issues for the last 15 years... and... and...

Yes, it would be nice is everyone stayed directly on topic, but just like a face-to-face conversation... perfection is never expected nor achieved.

kite_rider · 06-03-2018, 08:56 PM

Silex, it's under the seat/bed and mounted near the inverter. Took a quick shot of and attached (sorry for poor photo quality).

I was going to send you the link for this on Amazon, I think this MPPT controller was priced at $180 more or less. I'll send you the factory manual (pdf) if you didn't get one with your kit.

After I discovered that the controller wasn't installed we went back to the RV dealer and pointed it out. To be honest, we have the base model and solar is an upgrade option. However, when my wife bought the van the sales guy told us this model had the 'optional' solar already (probably since you could see the panels mounted on the roof). He seemed as shocked (no pun intended) as we were that everything seemed to be installed minus the controller and was able to get the controller from Hymer and install it for us. If you wanted to just go buy a charge controller and install it, it would be very easy if it's all wired up like mine was. Again, it was really weird; it looked like it had been installed but taken out. All of the wires were there and holes were already drilled in the exact position.

gregmchugh · 06-03-2018, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Silex, it's under the seat/bed and mounted near the inverter. Took a quick shot of and attached (sorry for poor photo quality).

I was going to send you the link for this on Amazon, I think this MPPT controller was priced at $180 more or less. I'll send you the factory manual (pdf) if you didn't get one with your kit.

After I discovered that the controller wasn't installed we went back to the RV dealer and pointed it out. To be honest, we have the base model and solar is an upgrade option. However, when my wife bought the van the sales guy told us this model had the 'optional' solar already (probably since you could see the panels mounted on the roof). He seemed as shocked (no pun intended) as we were that everything seemed to be installed minus the controller and was able to get the controller from Hymer and install it for us. If you wanted to just go buy a charge controller and install it, it would be very easy if it's all wired up like mine was. Again, it was really weird; it looked like it had been installed but taken out. All of the wires were there and holes were already drilled in the exact position.

Here is the remote display that plugs into your solar controller...

https://www.amazon.com/Display-Suita...ds=mt-50+meter

kite_rider · 06-03-2018, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Here is the remote display that plugs into your solar controller...

https://www.amazon.com/Display-Suita...ds=mt-50+meter

Thanks! For $30 looks like a deal. Will see if I can relocate the inverter panel while I'm routing this cable from the under seat area to the control panel location I want.

kite_rider · 06-03-2018, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silex840

I’ve done both, but I actually meant I left the inverter on, because I unplugged the shore power to move the coach and go in for the night. Thus I forgot to switch off the inverter and it drained the coach battery. Lesson to be learned on both accounts haha.

Hey, you just gave me an idea about to kill my battery.

Actually, I'm going to turn on my inverter tonight to see what happens. One thing I've been meaning tell every new Axion owner is to be very careful with the way you set up your Alde boiler. The controller is cryptic and if you accidentally turn on the electrical heat option it will almost certainly drain your battery. Even if the heat wasn't on, it still uses a ton of juice to heat the water. The proper way to set up (if not connected to external power, or even if you are) is to have the gas flame icon 'on' and the lightning bolt icon 'off'.

On the very rare night that I actually connected external power I was pleased with it's performance. Shower was hot and the heater worked fine with the gas off. It has a setting for how much power to draw and setting '2' popped the 20 amp breaker I was connected to (had other appliances going at the same time..). Setting '1' was fine for everything. I don't think I'd use the 120V mode much though, that thing is remarkably efficient on propane.

I say that because I can almost guarantee that there will be many Axion owners who will unwittingly have that enabled when they have the inverter on but only connected to battery. Way too easy to do and the 'walkthrough' people at the RV dealer don't mention it.

michaelingp · 06-04-2018, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

You can add an underhood generator yourself.

Look for shops specializing in utility vehicles, emergency vehicles, and police cars.

RT gets its GU from Nations. It is approx $1,500.

I'm very interested in this for my ProMaster. What's involved as far as wiring and integrating with the electrical system? Is the UG something you turn on just when you need it?

I was camping at a truck lot in Chicago for several days. I couldn't conveniently leave the lot, and the solar panels were not enough to keep the batteries happy with the refrigerators running in hot weather. I found that idling the engine did not significantly charge the batteries. Would a UG solve that problem? Someone said the UG would fully charge the coach batteries (I think I have 200 ah) in 15 minutes. True? Any downside to the UG (other than cost)?

gregmchugh · 06-04-2018, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelingp

I'm very interested in this for my ProMaster. What's involved as far as wiring and integrating with the electrical system? Is the UG something you turn on just when you need it?

I was camping at a truck lot in Chicago for several days. I couldn't conveniently leave the lot, and the solar panels were not enough to keep the batteries happy with the refrigerators running in hot weather. I found that idling the engine did not significantly charge the batteries. Would a UG solve that problem? Someone said the UG would fully charge the coach batteries (I think I have 200 ah) in 15 minutes. True? Any downside to the UG (other than cost)?

Only Lithium batteries can be fully charged quickly using an underhood generator or any other type of charger. All lead acid batteries have a lengthy absorption charge phase which requires hours of charging to get the batteries full after a bulk charge phase where they can accept higher charge rates.

michaelingp · 06-04-2018, 03:06 AM

"Fully charged" might not have been the correct wording. I just need to get significant amperes into them, say up to 80 or 90% capacity.

gregmchugh · 06-04-2018, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelingp

"Fully charged" might not have been the correct wording. I just need to get significant amperes into them, say up to 80 or 90% capacity.

Okay, but you also need to get them fully charged regularly if you want a long life from your batteries.

kmrotterdam · 06-06-2018, 03:16 AM

I'm looking to buy an Axion at the end of June in a few weeks, and after reading about the lithium problems (parasitic draw of the BMS), I'd rather just have the 200 watts of solar with AGM batteries, but I cannot find a single Axion on RVTrader that does NOT have the lithium option; it seems like it has become standard. Has any found an Axion for sale with just solar and AGM batteries?
Also the price range is incredible: from $69K to $90K.

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