The Future of the RV Industry!

[GeorgeRa]

I agree with Dave regarding dumping frequency, from my perspective it is indeed the largest differentiator with threshold being every 3-4 days. So, this threshold, including accessibility to dumping stations, could be the key decision driver for cassette or black tank. We are below these 3-4 days, so cassette works for us. In Dave’s usage I would also pick black tank if there is available mounting space.

Regarding single seal my experience is different, it could be the result of different experiences, Pete’s one season with one cassette, mine multiyear with Thetford 402C. Every time I remove the cassette the cassette seal is tested simply be existence of any seepage, with the cassette in the vertical position this seal needs to take a few inches of water pressure. In addition, we tend to keep some water in the bowl which doubles as a seal. Boiling down to the key point - our cassette doesn’t generate any inside odors but it is vented to outside per design. Odor could be generated by a contaminated main housing not a seal failure.

[Davydd]

For the record I have and 18 gallon black tank and a 28 gallon grey tank. If you have a cassette you still have to frequent dumping stations for the grey tank unless you are like the German fellow in Anchorage, Alaska I observed emptying his grey tank one bucket at a time with an attached garden hose. Or worse the guy who just empties on the ground the campsite just before you arrive.

As for combined tanks there are four things in a Class B that hinder it:

1. The black tank rules from the location of the toilet. You are limiting the possibilities of design placement to optimize the tank capacity.

2. with the underside small frame of Class B's it could be more advantages to split up the grey and black tank to take advantage of more space. You probably cannot find contiguous space as great as two separate spaces and of course item 1 also would come into play.

3. Though tanks are vented, there is a frequency of the grey tank traps to dry out in three places, the galley sink, the bathroom sink and the bathroom floor drain. Dry, hot climates and up and down mountain driving exacerbate this and of course there is no prevention of backing up in the floor drain. Grey tank smells are foul but black tanks are much, much worse. The black tank odor trap is the toilet which one can manage easily with the water trap and visual inspection.

4. Emptying the black tank first and the grey second flushes out the macerator and hose of cling ons.In fact, since I take on more water at usually the same time, I flush my fresh tank into both black and grey for more flowage.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Has anyone considered a single combined black and grey tank like some of the big Class-As have? Seems like a single tank on a Class-B would give maximum capability in limited space. Of course a single tank would not allow separate dumping of grey water if that is your useage model. I've never dumped my grey tanks anywhere but at a dump station.

I had a combined black/gray tank on my first van, a first-generation Airstream Interstate. It was wonderful. As you suggest, it is pretty much better in every way--more liquid to dilute the black contents, maximum use of available space without wastage if your tanks aren't "balanced" to your usage, the convenience of only a single dump, lower cost and lower weight for a given tank size. It is an excellent option--the only reason they aren't common is hidebound habit on the part of the RV industry.

If you need multiple tanks for configuration reasons, just connect them together. If you actually have issues with traps drying out (which I have literally never experienced), there are dry-traps available. About the only real disadvantage is that the shower drain is low which can be problematic in some designs. This is routinely solved by putting a tub drain closure (or a simple plug) into the drain for use when traveling. The step-to-close/open ones work well and is what Airstream used. You can also solve the issue by putting a back-flow preventer device in the drain.

I didn't have the option for a single tank in my current rig, but if I did, I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by avanti

I had a combined black/gray tank on my first van, a first-generation Airstream Interstate. It was wonderful. As you suggest, it is pretty much better in every way--more liquid to dilute the black contents, maximum use of available space without wastage if your tanks aren't "balanced" to your usage, the convenience of only a single dump, lower cost and lower weight for a given tank size. It is an excellent option--the only reason they aren't common is hidebound habit on the part of the RV industry.

If you need multiple tanks for configuration reasons, just connect them together. If you actually have issues with traps drying out (which I have literally never experienced), there are dry-traps available. About the only real disadvantage is that the shower drain is low which can be problematic in some designs. This is routinely solved by putting a tub drain closure (or a simple plug) into the drain for use when traveling. The step-to-close/open ones work well and is what Airstream used. You can also solve the issue by putting a back-flow preventer device in the drain.

I didn't have the option for a single tank in my current rig, but if I did, I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

Actually, I'd go as far as to say MORE people are moving away from preferring black tanks. This is one of many RV trends that are rapidly changing over to European preferences. I've dealt with black tanks before and I will never have one.

In any case, it's not a contest, so if you prefer a black tank, more power to you, but don't assume that everyone (or even most people) agrees. I'm just letting you know that black tanks aren't as popular as they use to be, especially as more convenient, more sanitary options become more prevalent.

[Davydd]

Lower cost, lower weight, convenience of a single dump are true, and Airstream once had a combined tank, why is it so "hidebound" of the RV Industry to not do it? Maybe they know something from experience in selling more B's because if it is so great competitive pressures would make it so.

I have the Hepv0 valves (dry traps) you speak of instead of water traps on my sinks but the shower floor drain for some reason they did not install one. Why, I can't tell you. I haven't asked. But I suspect it is for some practical reason or experience since ARV spares no expense if they deem something is better.

[GeorgeRa]

Old thread about future of RV and 15 years gap between NA an EU. So how many years is between our RV dump stations in NA and this automatic system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI4wtGr_ORE

[avanti]

My macerator is already at least that "automatic", thank you. And there is no coin slot.

[Rocinante]

I like this disposal station idea. Our van has a macerator and hose, etc. as well, but this looks simpler and requires fewer complex parts in the van, some of which we're about to have repaired at some personal expense. Sign me up.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

I like this disposal station idea. Our van has a macerator and hose, etc. as well, but this looks simpler and requires fewer complex parts in the van, some of which we're about to have repaired at some personal expense. Sign me up.

The most complex part of a cassette system is the cassette, key seals are in the cassette, they cost about $100-120 new. At about $75/hour cost for an RV technician the labor cost of cassette replacement is $0.00.

https://www.jacksonsleisure.com/cara...nt-waste-tank/

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

My macerator is already at least that "automatic", thank you. And there is no coin slot.

In my travel with black tank I paid for dumping either via campsite fee or specific fee. Free dumps are rare here.

[Davydd]

You can find dump stations in many places that are free. One such is where I store my Class B and it is available all year round in Minnesota. I dump on an average of about every two weeks or sooner if I find a convenient free dump on the road or staying in a campground. I boon dock most of the time but do go to campgrounds in county and municipal parks, state parks, national parks, national forests, etc., and occasionally a private campground, and they have free dumps. You can find free dump stations at highway rest stops. It is not exactly a burden on the road if you think ahead and as I said two weeks apart instead of every 3 or 4 days which coincides with two weeks taking on fresh water for us.

In 16 years on the road I've never paid to dump on the road outside a campground. We were planning to stay 3 weeks at a KOA in South Padre Island with both sewer and water at the campsite. COVID scrubbed those reservations which would have been a first for us and I would have looked forward to having all the time water and sewer to take long hot showers. And, BTW, when you have a separate grey tank with a cassette, porta-pottie or composting toilet, don't you have that grey water dumping inconvenience as well?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You can find dump stations in many places that are free. One such is where I store my Class B and it is available all year round in Minnesota. I dump on an average of about every two weeks or sooner if I find a convenient free dump on the road or staying in a campground. I boon dock most of the time but do go to campgrounds in county and municipal parks, state parks, national parks, national forests, etc., and occasionally a private campground, and they have free dumps. You can find free dump stations at highway rest stops. It is not exactly a burden on the road if you think ahead and as I said two weeks apart instead of every 3 or 4 days which coincides with two weeks taking on fresh water for us.

In 16 years on the road I've never paid to dump on the road outside a campground. We were planning to stay 3 weeks at a KOA in South Padre Island with both sewer and water at the campsite. COVID scrubbed those reservations which would have been a first for us and I would have looked forward to having all the time water and sewer to take long hot showers. And, BTW, when you have a separate grey tank with a cassette, porta-pottie or composting toilet, don't you have that grey water dumping inconvenience as well?

Is the dump station next to your garage open to the public?

We stay mostly in national, state parks, or national forest campgrounds and had no issue finding dumping stations.

Most expensive dump was in Corvallis OR gas station; I think it was $15 and I used it often. I don’t think they were profitable as they shut down the dump.

Our grey tank is large enough to last a week or more, never had a problem dumping grey water in dump station or RV campsite.

https://www.godownsize.com/how-dump-...s-work-prices/
https://www.rvtravel.com/how-much-is...-dump-your-rv/

[michaelingp]

For us, I think the benefit of the cassette is the small amount of space it takes. In three years we did have one odor incident, but I think it was a mistake we made. And our cassette doesn't have a fan.

[Davydd]

Our condo garage is behind a secure fence and only garage owners have access through the gate via a punch in key code or remote I carry on my keychain. There is also a regional park adjacent to our property (backyard, 3,700 acres) with an RV campground and accessible dump station one can use but the campground is closed and gated in the winter. Most campgrounds close up in the winter in Minnesota usually by the middle of October or to the end of October. There are maybe some exceptions in popular snowmobiling, skiing, or ice fishing destinations.

[Jinocraf35]

Yeah, you're right Davydd, there are campgrounds in Minnesota where you can camp all year long. For example I usually camp at arenas, cause I like to play hockey with my buddies and of course ride our snowmobiles. We didn't have the opportunity to do that due to the lockdown, but the coming year I'll be already prepared. I am going to order new tracks http://compositsnowmobiletracks.com/ for my Yamaha. I hope we will have fun in winter 2022