Sprinter - Operating Costs & Maintenance

[Skutumpah]

1) Any Sprinter owners care to share their costs of owning one over the last year?

2) Regarding reading the manual of your vehicle and understanding basic maintenance, I have put together some information. Every car I have owned has clearly stated in the manual the need to change the oil sooner under specific circumstances and heavy duty use. "Heavy Duty" is often defined as stop and go traffic or frequently driving on dirt roads for example. Seasonal temperature changes can dictate changing the oil (0W 30 in winter and 5W 40 in Summer are the ideal grades for my car). There should be no question here regarding the need to change oil sooner on a vehicle carrying a load vs one that is not. Driving a vehicle loaded with a bed, kitchen, water tanks, and drawers full of gear is going to cause oil to deteriorate faster, particularly if you are pulling the load up grades and over dirt roads. Does anyone really need to have this explained? If you need more proof than I am about to provide then get out there and do your own homework. Learn for yourself - This is elementary. I am amazed that something this basic is not understood, and in fact being argued.


From my Vehicle Owners Manual:

"Engine oils are graded according to their viscosity. The proper grade to be used in your engine depends on existing climatic or seasonal conditions. The engine oil which was first put into your engine has a viscosity of 0W 30. You can use this oil under all temperature ranges for normal driving. If engine oil viscosity grade SAE 0W 30 is not available, you can also use SAE 5W 30 or SAE 5W 40.

The rate of the oil consumption depends on the quality and viscosity of oil, the speed at which the engine is operated, the climate, and road conditions as well as amount of dilution and oxidation of the lubricant. Because of these variables no standard rate of consumption can be established.

The engine oil must be changed according to the intervals specified in our Maintenance booklet. This is very important because the lubricating properties of oil diminish gradually during normal vehicle use. Under some circumstances the engine oil should be changed more frequently. Change oil more often if you drive mostly short distances, operate the vehicle in dusty areas or predominately stop and go traffic conditions, or have your vehicle where temperatures remain below freezing for extended periods."


From the Sprinter Manual - Maintenance p.218 - 219:

Special Service Requirements

The specified maintenance interval takes only the normal operation of the vehicle into account. Under arduous operating conditions or increased load on the vehicle, maintenance work must be carried out more frequently, for example:

• regular city driving with frequent intermediate stops
• If the vehicle is primarily used to travel short distances
• use in mountainous terrain or on poor road surfaces
• if the engine is often left idling for long periods

Under these or similar conditions, have, for example, the air filter, engine oil and oil filter replaced or changed more frequently. Further information can be obtained at a qualified specialist workshop, e.g. and authorized Mercedes Benz Center.

From a Sprinter Manual - Service Products p.157

"Select the SAE class (viscosity) of the engine oil in accordance with the outside temperature. (!) If the SAE viscosity class of the engine oil used does not cover the outside temperature range in which you are operating the vehicle, it must be changed in good time, in particular before the cold season commences. Using an engine oil that does not have adequate temperature characteristics can lead to engine damage. The temperature range information of the SAE classification always refers to that of fresh oil. The temperature characteristics of the engine oil may deteriorate significantly due to aging in use, especially at low outside temperatures. For this reason we recommend that the engine oil be changed before the cold season commences. Use an approved engine oil of the specified SAE class.... You can obtain further information from any authorized Sprinter Dealer."

[talktodean]

Ive seen signs posted for up to 30% bio blend

[Skutumpah]

Propel fuels has several locations around California. They actually show a Sprinter Crew Van on their home page (watch the slide show). Anyone know if this ok in a Sprinter? They say it does not contain any biodiesel, but that it is refined from fats and oils. I will have to check with Mercedes unless someone else knows and uses their Diesel HPR. I can tell you the price is a lot less than gas.


https://propelfuels.com/

https://propelfuels.com/our_fuels?active=diesel

[talktodean]

Regular diesel with or without ( bio additives ) contains 500 ppm sulfur. The mb engine specifically says to use ulsd ( ultra low sulphur diesel) which only contains 15ppm. I don't believe there is any room for compromise. It's blu tec design is about low emissions, so i can't imagine any percentage of bio, and anything over 15ppm to be good for these engines as they are set up to run.

[Skutumpah]

It says "Max 5". It would be nice if you can use this - higher Cetane plus the lower price. There is a Propel station near me that is shared with a Chevron station.



http://web-assets.propelfuels.com.s3...cification.pdf

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Skutumpah

From the Sprinter Manual - Maintenance p.218 - 219:

Special Service Requirements

The specified maintenance interval takes only the normal operation of the vehicle into account. Under arduous operating conditions or increased load on the vehicle, maintenance work must be carried out more frequently, for example:

• regular city driving with frequent intermediate stops
• If the vehicle is primarily used to travel short distances
• use in mountainous terrain or on poor road surfaces
• if the engine is often left idling for long periods

Under these or similar conditions, have, for example, the air filter, engine oil and oil filter replaced or changed more frequently. Further information can be obtained at a qualified specialist workshop, e.g. and authorized Mercedes Benz Center.

From a Sprinter Manual - Service Products p.157

"Select the SAE class (viscosity) of the engine oil in accordance with the outside temperature. (!) If the SAE viscosity class of the engine oil used does not cover the outside temperature range in which you are operating the vehicle, it must be changed in good time, in particular before the cold season commences. Using an engine oil that does not have adequate temperature characteristics can lead to engine damage. The temperature range information of the SAE classification always refers to that of fresh oil. The temperature characteristics of the engine oil may deteriorate significantly due to aging in use, especially at low outside temperatures. For this reason we recommend that the engine oil be changed before the cold season commences. Use an approved engine oil of the specified SAE class.... You can obtain further information from any authorized Sprinter Dealer."

The first of these excerpts does NOT appear anywhere in my MY2014 manuals (either Operators or Service). These manuals may be downloaded for inspection here:

Owner Manuals | Mercedes-Benz Vans

This advice was once valid, but has been superseded by the ability of modern Sprinters to continually monitor the driving conditions of specific vehicles and adjust the oil change intervals accordingly.

The latter does appear in the Operator's manual (not the Service manual). It addresses viscosity vs temperature issues. I agree with it. If you have reason to believe that the viscosity of your oil is inadequate for the operating temperatures of your vehicle, then by all means change it. Indeed, I think you should follow all of the manufacturer's recommendations, unless you have better data. By data, I mean actual science, not "common sense" or Internet randomness. It is not that I particularly trust Mercedes, it is just that I trust other sources less (especially when they come from somebody trying to sell me oil or service). The only better source that I know if is individual oil analysis, which I enthusiastically support.

This is really my only point. I am not advocating long oil intervals, or any other particular regimen. I am only advocating evidence-based decisions when we are talking about the environment, which is something I care very much about. I admit I am susceptible to getting sucked into these interminable "oil wars" discussions. The reason is a compulsion to counter the faith-based arguments that dominate. I should know better.

I am done with this one. You are welcome to the last word.

[InterBlog]

Long thread; some of it I only scanned. Husband and I own a 2007 Airstream Interstate on a 2006 Sprinter, thus it is a T1N (old enough to have no DEF system). I don't fully understand the oil change debate, at least, not as it might relate to an older Sprinter. Changing the oil is the easiest thing in the world - I'm a small middle-aged woman and I could do it unassisted in my sleep, and it costs less than $100 to DIY even using really good synthetic oil (blog description here). So why even debate? Change according to your personal preference and be done thinking about it. Of course, if you are paying $495 or something close to that to have MB do it for you, I can see where the debate would take on another dimension.

The question was asked to share operating costs... We've owned ours for almost 2.5 years and I can't think of any mandatory *Sprinter* costs other than fuel and the <$200 we spent on two DIY oil changes. We did electively decide to add those Koni variable shocks and a heavier sway bar, which improved the ride dramatically - a few more hundred dollars there. We also replaced the OEM turbo-resonator with the aluminum aftermarket version - that was another $75. We replaced the chassis battery due to pre-existing experience with accelerating battery aging in our subtropical climate, which was another $125. And of course we have electively spent an obscene fortune DIY-upfitting the *Airstream* portions of the van, but the 10-year-old T1N Sprinter has been devoid of mechanical or structural issues thus far. I'm sure it will cost us something at some point, but so far, so good.

[BBQ]

.

I don't see any debate, only discussions.

Modern vehicles have computerized oil change reminder.
It adjusts the interval according to your driving condition.
When it says "change oil", you change oil.

The manual gives you the minimum guideline, nothing more.
If the manual says to increase the interval with loaded vehicle,
then the interval is increased. If it doesn't say, then carry on.
We all know it does not hurt to have more frequent oil change.
I doubt anybody would want to extend the manual's minimum requirement.

Most RVer never have enough mileage to exceed the time interval,
so most of the discussion is academic.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Long thread; some of it I only scanned. Husband and I own a 2007 Airstream Interstate on a 2006 Sprinter, thus it is a T1N (old enough to have no DEF system).
::.

If your engine does not require DEF,
then you can further reduce the operating cost
by feeding it home-made bio-diesel.



ps. not that I would recommend it

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by BBQ

If your engine does not require DEF,
then you can further reduce the operating cost
by feeding it home-made bio-diesel.



ps. not that I would recommend it

I avoid all bio-diesel like the plague. Fairly easy to do in Texas.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by talktodean

Regular diesel with or without ( bio additives ) contains 500 ppm sulfur. The mb engine specifically says to use ulsd ( ultra low sulphur diesel) which only contains 15ppm. I don't believe there is any room for compromise. It's blu tec design is about low emissions, so i can't imagine any percentage of bio, and anything over 15ppm to be good for these engines as they are set up to run.

Regular diesel? Both USA and Canada have only had ULSD at the pumps for almost a decade now. Those few places, mostly rural, that sell other diesel are for off-road non-taxed use and is colored accordingly.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Skutumpah]

The Propel "Diesel HPR" according to their figures would appear to exceed ULSD standards, but please do not take this as me advocating it for use in a Sprinter. At least not yet as I have no idea if you should or not, and I think everyone is in agreement you can not be too careful regarding the quality of the diesel you put into 2010+ model year Sprinters.

One of the nice things about owning a vehicle is that you are free to baby it, customize it, and enjoy it to your hearts content. I think that is something we can all agree on.

Interblog - Appreciate your feedback, particularly your decision and experience with adding a heavier duty sway bar. How many miles do you have on your Sprinter? Glad to hear it is behaving itself.

BBQ, I have not seen an oil drinking smilie before. Figures it would be on an RV oriented site - home of large overweight "gas pigs". Mileage is a key factor in me looking at getting a Sprinter, as I have been driving cars that get 25+ mpg for over 25 years. That gives you an idea of when I last owned a Jeep! I just have a hard time stomaching something that gets much less than 20mpg at least in "normal" driving as they say.

In fact I am not too excited about getting a vehicle right now based on the mileage current vans/pickups get. I remember attending a Vehicle Green Technology event ten years ago where Toyota had a big display with the usual activities and staff on hand to promote their latest energy efficient vehicles. They had a questionnaire that I filled out that asked what kind of Toyata would I like to buy next. I told them I would like to get an all electric 4Runner in three years. I am afraid I may have to wait another five or ten years for that to happen. Although Tesla has helped push the industry closer to getting there. A Tesla camper van with solar panels on the roof would be my dream machine, and guess what - no more oil changes!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Skutumpah

A Tesla camper van with solar panels on the roof would be my dream machine, and guess what - no more oil changes!

THAT we can agree on.

[Skutumpah]

Now we are going to have to fight over which one of us gets one first. Look forward to joining you on the road sometime in our new Tesla camper vans!

[BBQ]

.


Gas mileage is only important if you are buying a daily driver.

For an RV, well, how many times in a year you are going drive from the East Coast to the West Coast... and back?

Most people, even full timers, put less than 10,000 miles on their rig in a year. Of course some would drive more. I know one guy who went up and down the West Coast and then across the continent twice. He logged a bunch of miles. But then he is going to take a break. So the average miles is still low.

Diesel engines get better mileage.
but diesel also cost more.
And diesel engines cost more to mainain,
not just for Sprinter, diesels cost more across the board.
So I think if you want to buy the diesel engine based on mileage,
it is going to be a losing proposition.
The big picture just doesn't pan out.

I like diesel engines.
Great torque.
Great mileage.
But it has its price.


ps. I like the Mercedes Benz 4 cylinder diesel engine. The one with two turbo -- ie turbo on turbo. It is a sweet little powerplant. Quiet. Responsive. No turbo lag!

Need I say more

[mkguitar]

all this makes me like the gas chev 6.0 even better.
I get about 16 MPG.
oil change is $40 with filter ( 5000 rec, sometimes closer to 3K depending on dust, heat and use. washable K&N airfilter. shot of grease from my gun about $5 a year. tires at costco for under $200.
service anywhere from anyone, parts everywhere from a number of vendors at low cost.

Mike

[Skutumpah]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

all this makes me like the gas chev 6.0 even better.
I get about 16 MPG.
oil change is $40 with filter ( 5000 rec, sometimes closer to 3K depending on dust, heat and use. washable K&N airfilter. shot of grease from my gun about $5 a year. tires at costco for under $200.
service anywhere from anyone, parts everywhere from a number of vendors at low cost.

Mike

I test drove a Chevy 3500 van last week. The dash displayed mileage as 4mpg, which I dismissed as not necessarily representative of its true mileage, but the young salesman was at a loss for words. Are you getting 16mpg with some cargo in the back? Appreciate you offering your results, as Chevy and Nissans are the only game in town now with a box frame. So, I would welcome any other thoughts you might have. Interested in all pros and cons that you would like to share. One concern I had when looking at the Chevy van is the structural design/durability of the cargo area.

Chevy 3500:



Sprinter 2500:



The Sprinter and Transit are unibody so you would expect there to be a little more structural framing/strength, but it looks to me to be a pretty significant difference. The Chevy may have a heavier gauge skin. The Nissan vans look to be the most robust and also have a very beefy box frame underneath. The lower portion of the cargo area in the Nissans I looked at were hidden behind paneling, but I was told it was just like the upper portion that was visible.

[booster]

We also have a Chevy 6.0, 07C190P Roadtrek. 16mpg is doable for most of the Chevies, but certainly not a given or all the time. Stay low highway speed like 55 or less, low winds, unless tailwind, and you can get a bit above 16mpg. Speed up and it drops quickly, when are making time on the freeway, with the cruise at 72mph, averaging 67mph for 700+ miles, we will get low to mid 14's. I think most of the Chevies are going to be pretty close to the same as us, as we weigh in at about 9400# most of the time.

The non unibody Chevy doesn't seem to have any structural issues that I have seen. No stress buckling, wheels going out of alignment easy, etc. Runs and drives fine. If you look underneath at the rear wheels, there is a very big arch of formed steel (high strength like the frame, it appears), that goes right up under the body and holds the body mounts in that area. It is a body on frame, so the body is not carrying any of the suspension weight, like the unibodies, so they just need to support well enough to handle a rollover. You need a lot of structure in a unibody to handle 6000# of rear load, with the suspension impacts and such.

[Skutumpah]

BBQ - Good points. I plan on covering a lot of territory, at least initially. You have got me thinking about the fact that I also welcome being able to get to places where I can remain for a few days or longer for once when I get my camper van. It costs less to find a few nice places to spend some time than to be constantly going from one place to the next.

Thanks for you views on the 4 cylinder. The 4x4 only comes with the 3 liter six. If I go with a Sprinter I am exploring the possibility of getting a 2WD/RWD and having it converted. That is a long shot at this point as the costs and potential logistics of getting that done are probably not going to work out. I wish Mercedes had similar arrangements as Ford and Chevy/GMC do here where the factory ships direct to the up fitter and then onto you. There appears to be an excellent company that works with Mercedes in Europe but I do not know yet if that is possible with a US bound Sprinter. What are your feelings regarding the real world power performance differences between the 4 and 6 cylinder. A camper van is a constant full time load so I would think the 6 would be better, but welcome your views. By the way I went with the turbo four over a six in my current car. I have always been glad I did because it is plenty quick and has saved me some real money over the life of the car. However, if it were a six I might be getting a tear drop and calling it a day, but my high mileage sedan really can not be expected to pull a trailer, even a small one at this point.

[Skutumpah]

A couple of articles regarding upcoming electric Sprinters. The first ones are obviously not going to be useful for long distance driving, but hopefully by the time your thinking about trading in or retiring your current Sprinter there will be. No more gas and no more oil, no more radiators, and no more transmissions. Throw in AWD and loads of torque and they can not make them soon enough. These articles were written at the same time and are a bit repetitive, but each offers some observations that the other one does not so I thought I would include a few of them.


Mercedes Eyeing Market for Electric Vans, Trucks | TheDetroitBureau.com

This one mentions why a Hybrid Sprinter may be passed over:

https://www.trucks.com/2016/08/01/me...-sprinter-van/

Video - Electric Van Outruns a Tesla and a Ferrari:

Watch this electric van outrun a Tesla and a Ferrari - Autoblog