Sequence 20L vs Travato 59K

[kltk1]

We just got back from the Atlantic City RV show in NJ and spent a lot of time bouncing between the Thor Sequence 20L and a Winnebago Travato 59K. As the Travato 59K is at the top of our list for our next coach, we're comparing that platform to the others coming out.

What Thor did right:

I was very surprised the Sequence actually had me rethinking the Travato. The biggest reason is the driver position comfort. The seat is a little wider and much more comfortable. Finding a comfortable seating position was incredibly easy and made me feel like I actually wanted to drive this van all day. The Travato? Not so much. It's my understanding you get used to the Travato, but I'll have to take that for what it is and give a big nod to the Sequence. It's that much nicer. At least for me at 5'11", 31" inseam and 215lbs.

The beds are a little lower to the floor on the Sequence making it a tick more comfortable, however, it's the back cushions that make the big difference here. The two piece cushion solution on the Sequence makes for a more relaxed sitting position and gives a mild recline. Unfortunately, the cushions aren't as firm and have a weird seating position that makes your legs feel like they're dopping forward. Slight nod to the Sequence.

Central control panel: While I really like this approach, it's a mixed bag to be honest. It's clean and allows you to control everything from one device. The downside? It's clean and allows you to control everything from one device. If that device goes south, you're screwed.

Here's where the Sequence went off the rails:

Upon entering the coach it screams "cheap". No doubt it's a nice coach but it feels like exactly what it is. A Travato 59K built to a price point. A low price point at that. It's true you're going to spend, at least $10K more for a Travato, but you really feel like you're in a solid coach when you're in the Travato. Big nod to the T.

Build quality: The cabinet doors don't latch, the stove top doesn't have any pad between the glass top and the burners. You just know that's going to ratltle going down the road. A screw was missing on one of the glass burner cover hinges. While this is something that says more about dealer prep than the manufacturer, it didn't instill confidence. The plastic around the faucet in the shower sink is so flimsy it gives little confidence it's going to last long.

In the end, while the driver position is that much more comfortable, we had a long discussion on the drive home about the type of owners we are and decided quality was more important to us than price and will, at this point, keep the Travato 59K at the top of our list.

Next up: Coachmen Nova 20RB. We're expecting this coach is probably going to split the difference between the Sequence and the Travato. We'll see...

[JakeyLee]

Kltk1,
I'm with you on Thor's build quality regarding the sequence. I just don't get it. No positive latches to be found...all the cabinets felt oddly light/flimsy.

That floor plan is incredibly popular. Seems like a couple manufactures just rushed a couple similar plans out to cash in on the latest craze. No disrespect to anyone that bought a sequence. But yeah, make the Travato look like an ARV in comparison. And that's saying something.

[Oakman]

We bought the Thor Sequence and love it. The lack of positive lock doors on the cabinets is not a problem. The doors stay shut, even while making a quick turn. Love the Winegard internet connector, Pioneer radio, shower curtain in the bathroom, Thule accessories and extremely comfortable drivers seat. I know many badmouth the Thor product, but for the $20,000 less we paid over the Travato, we are very happy. For a first timer with doubts, the Sequence has been exactly what we were looking for!

[teck13]

The big difference, besides the quality, is that the rear windows on the Sequence do not open. If you expect to always be traveling where you expect to use the AC and/or be plugged in that may be OK but for me it is a complete non-starter having windows that do not open. The sink in the Sequence is a tad smaller. Hate, hate the valances on the Sequence. Don’t believe the Sequence includes a subwoofer but the T subwoofer is super low quality so not a big deal. Shower curtain track in Sequence beats my T’s snap in POS shower curtain. Sequence has multiplex wiring which is probably better and definitely lighter but I love when it’s dark the easy mechanical feel on one easy switch to turn on lights. Sequence has pull down roller shades - not better or worse than T’s built in system but different. Like the pull out pet food bowl built into the step up on the Sequence. Overall the Sequence quality is lower but it is shinier inside.

[Storysrvwego]

Having a fair amount of travel in a Travato 59K, the width of the front seats has never come up. My original concern was position comfort of the seats and the steering wheel. That passed instantly; the non tilt wheel is find for both my wife and I. We differ in our height and torso to leg length ratio. No problems and we sometimes spend hours behind the wheel. Love the seats actually. Ours are fabric covered and something we both prefer but I get it that people like ahh, well, cold faced leather which eventually can be solved if heating in the seat is provided and catches up. Hot summer heat is a whole different animal.

I might guess that a wider seat would interfere with getting up and down to make trips back and forth into the coach area. I know the Transit based Class B's we tried a few years ago left both of us disliking the entire ergonomics of the seats and passage through the center but some have claimed it was ok for them. That means it works for some and that is fine. You also have to learn to duck a bit more in those Transits while your getting your feet around the lower dash and between the seats. You can bonk your head in a RAM Promaster based Travato or Sequence, etc. too but not as much as the Transits, unless FORD has revisited this in the current models.

I prefer all of the side windows to be open-able. THOR chose to use the sleeker looking RAM factory side windows. In the end I think these cost less than the work to cut the side openings to install slide or tilt opening aftermarket windows which don't look as sleek. But with all of the windows able to be opened in the Travato, this means you have more control of breezes. As in late at night you decide to crack open or close a window without getting out of bed. Or all windows open on some travel days to maximize an available cooling breeze.

Plastic toilet bowl in the THOR versus Ceramic bowl in the Travato. The latter is easier to clean and less porous from beginning to end to keep the chore of cleaning better. Some might not care. I do. I think I recall the shower control not being as nice in the THOR but I can't remember.

I am not sure I like having a wireless control panel at the slider entry. can I see it while it is in its place on the end of the cabinet in bright sunlight? Then the panel might be too bright when I also have to climb out of the bed to adjust the furnace? Sales guy would not let me stay overnight to test that, hah. But my point is that I think... I prefer the control panels right above my head on the bed/bathroom wall where I can if need be, tinker with them without waking my wife on the other side 'cause I don't have to get out of bed to mess with the controls. I absolutely do not like that the standard TRUMA control panel is located I the cubby hole below the entertainment system where we stuff all kinds of things in there. DVD's, gloves, misc stuff.

Do I like the Sequence? Yes! I have reservations about THOR rv's, parts, documentation access, quality control I have seen on other products of theirs etc. in general but the Sequence semi-clone of the Travato is a decent home run.

Nobody gets it all done without issues. A zillion 3rd party items go into an RV with different skill levels involved. Not the same as largely automated car and truck assembly process. The Sequence has some cool things they have done and altogether in a price point that is for now anyway, certainly more attractive. I just know if we had to replace the Travato today, we would get another one.

StorysRVwego

[proeddie]

Originally Posted by Oakman

We bought the Thor Sequence and love it. The lack of positive lock doors on the cabinets is not a problem. The doors stay shut, even while making a quick turn. Love the Winegard internet connector, Pioneer radio, shower curtain in the bathroom, Thule accessories and extremely comfortable drivers seat. I know many badmouth the Thor product, but for the $20,000 less we paid over the Travato, we are very happy. For a first timer with doubts, the Sequence has been exactly what we were looking for!

I don't own either one... I have a DIY Promaster campervan. I liked the Travato K a lot when I saw it (floorplan is very similar to mine!).

Then I saw the Sequence.

Everything that Winnebago should have included is already there in the Sequence... at a better price! Most of the interior looks like it was made by the same manufacturer, and the extras on the Sequence make it a no-brainer. Example: Clanky, metal tambour door for the shower area? Doesn't even come close to the design of the pocket doors in the Sequence.

Oakman, enjoy your Sequence... you made the right choice!

[bobcat66]

The non-opening windows in the Sequence is no go for us. Can't imagine camping without a fresh breeze coming in through the windows.

That's just us.

[proeddie]

Just a thought... you could buy (2) CR Laurence windows with VENTS for about $1200 and get 'em installed for another $300. (Left and right long windows behind the sliding door area)

Sorry, just my DIY thinkin' getting loose!

On my DIY Promaster, I have a Maxxaire in the back (over the toilet area) and I use metal screen inserts in the driver and passenger windows...plenty o' breezes.

[JKConey]

We saw the Sequence at the california RV Show and almost bought it, but they wouldn’t consider our trade in value. The K made us look into the Travato that was a bit too high couple years ago. We found a Travato at the same price, and after 3 years with a Thor class C, it was a no brainer to “upgrade” to a Winnebago. Never Thor again for us.

[MFCEssex]

Thanks for all the replies and insight. We are waiting for a Thor Sequence 20L to become available in NH to review. We had decided on the PW Lexor TS after ruling out the WB Travato. This is our third camper (a Class C then a Class A) and with an empty nest a 20 foot class B is now perfect for us. I've heard all the comments about quality and I wont plug or criticize other makers but in our past experience with 2 new campers from 2 major brands we had our share of issues so I'm more concerned about how a unit will hold up versus some of the cheaper component choices.

It's hard not to look at something with an MSRP of $80K versus $130K on the PW. I'm really curious for the Sequence owners to talk about their overall experience. I'm sure Thor will fix some of the glaring issues in the model year ahead but is this junk or smartly engineered to grab market share. Any thoughts?

[Excelwpg]

Originally Posted by MFCEssex

Thanks for all the replies and insight. We are waiting for a Thor Sequence 20L to become available in NH to review. We had decided on the PW Lexor TS after ruling out the WB Travato. This is our third camper (a Class C then a Class A) and with an empty nest a 20 foot class B is now perfect for us. I've heard all the comments about quality and I wont plug or criticize other makers but in our past experience with 2 new campers from 2 major brands we had our share of issues so I'm more concerned about how a unit will hold up versus some of the cheaper component choices.

It's hard not to look at something with an MSRP of $80K versus $130K on the PW. I'm really curious for the Sequence owners to talk about their overall experience. I'm sure Thor will fix some of the glaring issues in the model year ahead but is this junk or smartly engineered to grab market share. Any thoughts?

You can definitely see the corners cut on the Thor.

Overall, Pleasure way, Panoramic and Advanced RV may have the best quality, but the price Tag seems disproportionately high.
You can buy a decked out Leisure Travel Wonder RTB for less than these class b’s.

There is far less work involved in a class b, less materials etc.You’d think that there would be a little more effort on Thor’s part, to ensure a good quality build.
If you look at the European models, they are a decade ahead of North America and cheaper to boot!

[Storysrvwego]

I would suggest you give the Sequence a thorough study. Yes I do like it. Fundamentally it appears to be a nice product and they have included a few nice things that WINNEBAGO does not have. Overall I still like my Travato 59K better. After looking at two, some points I have re the Sequence which are not bad, just thought you might like to think about as you compare the two:

The use of the factory RAM windows that do not open might (might -- not sure) mean the air and moisture circulation will be less than ideal. To be fair, I cannot say that the extra ventilation I have in my Travato is required.

In my case, my wife and I chose to buy a 2018 59K which has four very large opening windows on each side. I suspect it costs THOR less and certainly shortens build time to go mostly with the factory, non opening side windows. They certainly do look the nicest but might have some trade-off for ultimate, non assisted natural air flow. We could have purchased an early 2019 at the time which has MUCH nicer blinds than the virtually non-working (because they are too-wide) spring driven roll up MCD's when they are even slightly cold. MCD folks on the phone are very polite but skirt around actually admitting these extra wide roll ups exceed the design that works well for the less-wide versions.

The smaller windows that WB changed too on the 2019 and current 2020 Travato's have excellent frame-built in blinds. Nonetheless, we still elected to buy the 2018 model while we could still get one. In part, the newer, smaller (but still plenty decent size) window openings used on the latest Travato's allowed WB to offer off the shelf sized dual paned acrylic, energy efficient windows as an option. My wife and I are these days, pavement travelers with us avoiding extra cold times and no longer dirt camp. The large single pane, nice quality slider windows in the 2018 and earlier models appealed to us. It is really nice to be able to reach up and crack the slider open or close at night if I need to make that air flow and/or temperature adjustment without crawling out of bed.

The TRUMA standard control panel is located in the Sequence where I think almost everyone will place many items in front of it. While the additional wireless control at the slider end of the cabinet seem techno-cool, I have a preference to avoid diddling with wi-fi in cases where I don't have to use it. I can add wireless operation to our Truma Combi system but just not inclined to do that nor play on my iPhone when we go on our vacation trips. It's a vacation darn it (grin). I do have an UTRA Blue plugged into the OBD-II port that feeds info to my iPhone. In particular to watch the coolant temperature because the factory gauge in all RAM Promasters do not go past about 320 degrees, unless they recently corrected this on new ProMasters. I do not monitor the App for this; I have it set to alarm me if temp is approaching disaster before it is too late. I am still on vacation...

Repeating myself here but I like being able to open or close a window without getting out of bed or disturbing my wife, or make the changes at her request. Another thing about where THOR placed the TRUMA Combi Control Panel is they also have a few other things on the back wall of that cubby hole. What things WB did put in there are located on the ceiling of the cubby hole in the Travato; This appears to me that WB was thinking like me; lots of stuff may get crammed into this cubby hole so they kept what they did mount in there, accessible.

The Travato has a ceramic toilet. The Sequence has I think, a less expensive plastic toilet. Or at least while a salesperson was yammering at me, my quick look and tap tap test gave me that impression. If the Sequence is using a plastic toilet, this isn't the end of the world. Just a shorter life, depending on what you use and how the toilet is maintained over time.

Little things here and there that add up. On the other hand the included WINEGUARD Connect system and I suppose for some folks, the gotta have wi-fi remoting of controls may be points for THOR. I would prefer these to be optional but I think for most buyers, these are welcome.

I would rather have had a few more required items of a bit higher quality but overall the Sequence seems pretty good and certainly comes at a more attractive price. Assuming you can keep from buying one at a show special price and get one for a much better price, a Sequence at least comes out of the gate as a more pocket book friendly choice.

Almost forgot the pair of Floor drawers - I like them very much. On the other hand I believe I can store more in my top plate access bin. I wish I had both! But no room to do that so my personal preference is the top access floor bin I an certainly store more odd shaped stuff in the Travato's floor hole. If I had say a dog or cat, I might like the drawers for slide out food bowl access. For folks that travel with a cat, it seems logical that one drawer could be used for a mini-cat litter pan. Except the idea of cat using the pan right behind where I am driving seems like I would change my mind pretty quick about that. Actually anywhere inside of a closed Class B is not particularly ideal except maybe at the very back in the shower pan area.

Real life experience from others and your own personal needs might nail my thoughts as inconsequential. Perhaps others that have a number of months travel experience under their belt with a Sequence can help. I can just say that my wife and I both love travel in our Travato 59K. The quietest coach ever. Only a couple of very minor rattles were our bad for something in a cabinet or the thin sheet metal frame holding the also thin sheet metal of the microwave/convection oven until I reworked that! Our 2018 Travato has really nice metal mini-blinds at the kitchen window except they will rattle if we leave them down while driving. Our pre flight check includes always pull them up before departure.

I think the Sequence is a great choice but just try to think of real travel situations and see if it still works in your mind. Oh; you might try laying on the bed of the Sequence and if you can, a Travato on the same day if possible to best remember the feel. I forgot to do that myself. See if the mattress comfort is similar. Both have the Froli Spring System underneath which is marvelous. We have a fancy box and mattress in the house. I think our Travato is every bit as comfortable. I did take note that the width of the mattresses seems to be the same. Some other twin bed models have a wider aisle with narrower mattresses. That provides an advantage for two people traversing back and forth which does happen once in awhile. The Travato and I think Sequence means the walking space is a bit tighter but the positive side is the single mattresses are wider for making turns on your side without danger of slipping off into the abyss of the aisle. We never use the insert. While we might, we are close enough for contact. Much discussion about the filler pieces as backrests for sitting. Not a point for us. We usually have our meals or other sit down in the rotated driver/passenger seats. Unless WB changed them, they rotate smooth and easy. It was a bear to get the seats to rotate on the Sequence I tried; I was either doing it wrong, this one was unusually difficult or the seats which are different than the Travato are just going to be a bugger every time. Definitely try it on the one(s) you see - hopefully it was just an issue on the one I tried this on.

Propane tank - I still need to analyze the capacity to determine if the Sequence and Travato have the same size or the Sequence has a larger tank. THOR is either clever about the unit of size they are using or it is actually larger than the one used in the WB Travato. In the real world I don't really care; my wife and I have yet to expend our tank on trips ranging from 1 day to 2 weeks but our use-rate could be dramatically different than yours.

Mileage - It depends, simple as that. Yes it is possible to hit an 18mpg average but the real world is more like 15 which is still very gratifying. Do a lot of start stop driving with your 8,000 pound box and you will get into 12.x mpg average. Sequence is going to be about the same since the wind drag, chassis height, weight, etc is nearly same as a Travato. GREAT powertrain. WB Travato coach section also has been virtually zero issues. The only three issues we have had were near the beginning and I solved all three myself. Two required new parts which acquired direct from the manufacturers for no charge under mfg warranty. Beats taking your RV back to the dealer to leave it there for weeks or even months that other people experience even just to get simple things done. keep that in mind; it can discourage a lot of new owners that cannot take care of some issues themselves.

StorysRVwego

[fx24]

I compared 2020 models: Sequence 20L v. Travato 59K and found them nearly identical. I chose Sequence.
1. I believe it cost less (but admit I didn't "bottom-line" a Travato).
2. I preferred the lighter color cabin decor.
3. I preferred the sliding side-door screen door vs. mag/zip door.
4. I preferred the ladder (it hides... less "RV" look and its usable elsewhere).
5. I preferred the control panel with easy buttons for lighting.

Can't bash either... they're both very nice.
I hope this info helps others.