Roadtrek Under Hood Generator

[GBLandau]

Hi Folks. Newbie here (to this forum, been RVing for 30+ years). Just recently sold our Class A (2005 GeorgieBoy Landau 2450DS) to downsize to a Class B. Spent my time on the iRV2 forums but with the anticipated change have shifted to this great Class B forum.

Been doing a lot of looking around and we have decided that a Roadtrek 190P of a Pleasure-Way Lexor are the units best fit for our wants and needs.

I am very intrigued with the Roadtrek UHG. As background, we generally only use the generator when traveling (for A/C, may not need it for a van but certainly did with a Class A), in the mornings and evenings for the microwave, blender, and coffee pot, and to charge the batteries up. By the way we tend to like boondocking and primitive campsites. Use very little power during the day. It seems like the Roadtrek UHG may be ideal for this application. Plus the noise to any other primitive campers would be greatly minimized. Am I missing something?

Does anyone have some practical advice or experience with this system? I would like to avoid making a big mistake on this purchase.

I appreciate your sage advice.

Mike

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GBLandau

Hi Folks. Newbie here (to this forum, been RVing for 30+ years). Just recently sold our Class A (2005 GeorgieBoy Landau 2450DS) to downsize to a Class B. Spent my time on the iRV2 forums but with the anticipated change have shifted to this great Class B forum.

Been doing a lot of looking around and we have decided that a Roadtrek 190P of a Pleasure-Way Lexor are the units best fit for our wants and needs.

I am very intrigued with the Roadtrek UHG. As background, we generally only use the generator when traveling (for A/C, may not need it for a van but certainly did with a Class A), in the mornings and evenings for the microwave, blender, and coffee pot, and to charge the batteries up. By the way we tend to like boondocking and primitive campsites. Use very little power during the day. It seems like the Roadtrek UHG may be ideal for this application. Plus the noise to any other primitive campers would be greatly minimized. Am I missing something?

Does anyone have some practical advice or experience with this system? I would like to avoid making a big mistake on this purchase.

I appreciate your sage advice.

Mike

A second alternator is great. Many of us have them and love them. The only thing you might be missing is that if you have a modern Diesel engine, you shouldn't plan on doing a lot of idling every morning without doing some significant driving at frequent intervals. Diesel emissions systems do not do well under this usage pattern, due to the need to regenerate the DPF. Not generally an issue with gasoline engines.

This is one of the reasons I am only considering gasoline engines for our next rig.

[booster]

If you are only looking to get AC, as long as you are running the engine you might as well just use the dash air conditioning. Even a stock Chevy 145 amp alternator is close to being able to run the microwave and such.


The Chevy is gas and can idle forever without the diesel issues, so no problem there.


IMO, to do what you want you would just run the dash AC with the engine running, and for the other smaller items make sure you have two good AGMs in place and put in a bigger, heavy duty alternator. For your needs a second alternator (engine generator) is probably not needed.


Other than that, you would stuck with the noisy generator.

[Davydd]

The concept of the second alternator (or under hood generator as Roadtrek terms it) is faster charging of your house battery bank in much shorter time than an Onan. That is best by driving, not idling. While driving most van's chassis air conditioning can suffice. Then you use your battery bank to use house electrical items. No matter how much you think idling is quiet in a campground, your neighbors will assuredly not agree with you and most campgrounds have quiet hours and engine idling falls within that criteria.

[Batt 57]

Have you considered the WB Travato or Boldt? Both use the Volta Pure 3 system that includes a second alternator.

[mumkin]

My previous rig was a RT 170 with solar, two group 31s, underhood generator, and 2000 w inverter. It was so much better than the Onan, which I mainly used for... exercising... in my Libero. LOL

About the only time I used the extra power was to use the microwave or hair dryer. Just turn on the engine and inverter... let it idle for the use and to add some charge back. If you want a Chevy, you might find this combo on the last years RT built the 190. The new owners are not doing any Chevy rigs.

You might want to look at the new company's Zion model. (my Simplicity is similar, but no longer made) Most are 2021/2020 rigs. The Promaster rigs are much roomier inside than the Chevy.

The Pleasureway Lexor is also nice, but has the 3 system fridge (give me a compressor!!) and the Onan.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by Davydd

. . . the second alternator (or under hood generator as Roadtrek terms it) . . . No matter how much you think idling is quiet in a campground, your neighbors will assuredly not agree with you . . .

We hate marketeers. Under Hood Generators? Really? Show us one. Yes, way long ago (when we still carried swords) generators could be found in the common automobile. But they have been replaced (as has the sword) by better technology, in this case, alternators. So your so-called Under Hood Generator is nothing more than an ordinary alternator and, it turns out, a 2nd alternator. Thank you Avanti for resisting Roadtrek’s marketing efforts.

But we do understand where Roadtrek is coming from . . . they want to compare their alternative energy source - - an engine drive alternator - - to the notoriously hated (loud and unreliable) Not Under Hood solution, the common generator (e.g. Onan). And in that light, we think it is a no-brainer, the 2nd alternator wins out. (Presumably, to be competitive with 'The Generator', the 2nd alternator must be teamed with a good-sized Sine Wave Inverter.) So, having ranted, we’ll now respond to the OP’s inquiry.

We have a 2nd alternator, lots of solar and shore power charging capability. Each has singularly proven itself as a necessary energy generating ‘team member’ under appropriate, diverse circumstances and we would be very reluctant to spec an RV without all three.

Much of this year’s travels have been in perfect solar conditions (high sun angle and long days, perpetual sun, higher elevation, cooler temperatures) allowing us to break our prior solar panel daily ‘energy collection’ records but, importantly, fully meeting our daily energy requirements without driving or having to idle the vehicle. Yes, we understand Davydd’s arguments that the rate of charge of a 2nd alternator may dwarf that of solar thereby arguably rendering solar obsolete. But there were days when we weren’t driving . . . without solar we would have had to resort to ‘just running our engine’ to meet our daily energy budget. Why do this when we can just sit there in complete silence and let the sun do it for us, and without the wear and tear, use of gas, and noise of idling our RV? [Incidentally, the time required to recharge using a 2nd alternator is not trivial. We limit our charge rate to 100 - 125 amps. This is required to keep the alternator from overheating in worst case conditions (hot days, vehicle not moving, just idling). At 100 amps/1300 watts, it would take 4 hours to generate what we collected from our solar in a single day.]

Today we’re in one of the most pleasant campgrounds (the perfect weather helps) we’ve been at all summer: Sam Owens FS Campground on the shores of Lake Pend Oreille. Most love shade. This park is The King of Shade. We’ve driven all over in the vain search for sun. Rather than the 5+ kwh/day we were bagging in Utah earlier, our watt-hour meter is currently reading 0.3 kwh total for today. We aren’t driving anywhere. The only solution is the 2nd alternator.

Davydd is right on the issue of noise - - idling isn’t noiseless. We, too, stayed away from diesel in part due to our planned idling/invertor solution to the classic generator. We did not foresee how noisy an idling ProMaster can be. And it isn’t the engine noise, it’s the radiator cooling fan that incessantly cycles after the first couple minutes of engine idling. But we think that Davydd might have overstated the problem. There’s no question that our noisy ProMaster is hugely quieter than the typical generator. And while we don’t make it a habit to idle the van for meeting our energy needs, when we do, we’ve never been challenged and, today, we could hardly detect the van’s noise over the nearby sound of waves lapping upon the shore.

In our opinion, a 2nd alternator is a must have.

[Stevemo]

You can get the UHG for many vehicles. Roadtrek used Nations Starter & Alternator and somehow configured it to trigger the remote starter upon low battery voltage.
https://www.nationsstarteralternator...Kits-s/209.htm

[booster]

Yep, Winston, got to love those marketing folks with things like UGH.


Next thing you know a big battery pack will be MSP for "mobile shore power".

[Davydd]

Winston,

I don't think I'm overstating the problem even with my old age failing hearing. Most any noise is obnoxious especially when you want to get away from the sounds to enjoy camping and the wilderness. Campgrounds mostly put engine idling in with running an Onan generator in their quiet hours descriptions and will probably clamp down on that requirement as second alternators gain in popularity. Besides, the environmentalist faction will be up in arms if you idle.

There are many sounds to be detested especially in mixed campgrounds with tent campers. I was embarrassed to run our Espar diesel burner for hot water in Chisos Basin CG in Big Bend NP. It sounds like a jet engine. Air conditioners are also obnoxious but in RV campgrounds with shore power I guess you have to grin and bear it some nights even if you don't see the need to.

I have the more robust Delta second alternator, which I doubt you could install in a Promaster because of its size, and charge at a rate of about 280 amps driving at 50 mph. I've had the more popular Nations alternator. It doesn't compare. At high idle, which I rarely use, it is still charging at well over 200 amps. I think about 220 amps. It is not restricted and doesn't overheat. I have no experience or information on the Volta second alternator.

Why no solar? It is percentages in how much you can install on a B roof and how much it can contribute. When you have over an 800ah battery bank it contributes negligibly to the point you probably cannot quantify it, and a second alternator driving down to the campground dump station probably contributes more in a day than solar can. I know my antsy limits of sitting in one place without going anywhere and solar is not going to extend that with 800ah of battery bank. But it became a no-brainer once I started storing our van inside a garage when not in use.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by booster

Yep, Winston, got to love those marketing folks with things like UGH.


Next thing you know a big battery pack will be MSP for "mobile shore power".

I wonder if it will come to that in marketing. I do think that but not MSP. You have the honors for coming up with that. I often don't plug in when available if I don't need to as our van operates and performs electrically the same plugged in or not. My rule of thumb estimate is I can stay comfortably 3 days in one place that way without thinking about it. I could stretch that to 5-7 days thinking about it. "Thinking" means conserving electrical use.

Because of my experience and antsy stay in place limits and detesting air conditioning which I rarely use with seeking the proverbial 70 degree day travel, I am thinking of cutting down the battery amp hours on our next van. Maybe 576ah with Valence batteries. Air conditioning still made the cut because it is the best way to dehumidify a van and I feel I still occasionally need that when camping in the humid southeast in the winter to spring. Maybe I will like the much quieter Houghton AC.

[GBLandau]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I am still intrigued with the second alternator option but we will see what I find. It sounds like a good fit for our intended use. I am sure I will have many other questions as my wife and I prepare for "Class B life"!

Thanks Again,
Mike

[GBLandau]

Davydd/Winston,

Good point. At first I did not understand how an idling engine could be considered noisy. I definitely forgot about the radiator cooling fan. Those can get noisy but I can't imagine it is anywhere near the dreaded Onan running.

Thanks,
Mike

[Stevemo]

Davydd: Can you post a link to the "Delta Alternator"? That is a really poor choice in names on their part as it is hard to search for. May as well be called "Cold Air Conditioner".

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Stevemo

Davydd: Can you post a link to the "Delta Alternator"? That is a really poor choice in names on their part as it is hard to search for. May as well be called "Cold Air Conditioner".

Woops, I meant to say Delco as in Delco-Remy. I don't know if that was a mind wander or computer spell checker. The only company I know using the Delco is Advanced RV. This is the video introducing it. Notice how big it is next to the Nations? Promasters have difficulty in installing the Nations because of road clearance. The Delco might drag the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XANYxoEF_HY

[Winston]

Davydd, that's huge. Maybe it's time to consider a 50 volt system?

[Stevemo]

Thank you for the video. I recognize that alternator as being out of a transport truck. I'll have to look at what they have for mounting in my application.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Winston

Davydd, that's huge. Maybe it's time to consider a 50 volt system?

ARV has an option for the Volta 56v battery also and those alternators are I think smaller than the Nations and put out a lot of amps more so than the Delco. I just don't need it and would only consider it if it is a lighter system. :::Hmm, I haven't asked that of them:::

That is more their solution for their southwest customers that desire all night air conditioning. If you live in the south you have different criteria than I.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Notice how big it is next to the Nations? Promasters have difficulty in installing the Nations because of road clearance. The Delco might drag the road.

Wow... that is huge!! To fit that in my Promaster, I'd have to give up the engine to make space for it.

But my little Nations one works fine.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by GBLandau

Hi Folks. Newbie here (to this forum, been RVing for 30+ years). Just recently sold our Class A (2005 GeorgieBoy Landau 2450DS) to downsize to a Class B. Spent my time on the iRV2 forums but with the anticipated change have shifted to this great Class B forum.

Been doing a lot of looking around and we have decided that a Roadtrek 190P of a Pleasure-Way Lexor are the units best fit for our wants and needs.

I am very intrigued with the Roadtrek UHG. As background, we generally only use the generator when traveling (for A/C, may not need it for a van but certainly did with a Class A), in the mornings and evenings for the microwave, blender, and coffee pot, and to charge the batteries up. By the way we tend to like boondocking and primitive campsites. Use very little power during the day. It seems like the Roadtrek UHG may be ideal for this application. Plus the noise to any other primitive campers would be greatly minimized. Am I missing something?

Does anyone have some practical advice or experience with this system? I would like to avoid making a big mistake on this purchase.

I appreciate your sage advice.

Mike

If you are planning on staying put for long periods, I am not sure the UHG is the best option. We love ours, but we travel a lot and rarely stay in one place for more than a few days at most. We also have a large battery bank. The UHG means we arrive fully charged and can go for several days just relying on solar. Even when we stay somewhere longer, we are usually traveling locally and that gives the UHG a chance to do its work. Our use or electricity is a lot like yours.

I don't think you would want to rely on the UHG to provide power for your air conditioner. You would be idling a lot, which is not a good idea with the sprinter diesel. It is certainly quieter at idle than any generator I am familiar with, but I don't think I would want to pitch my tent next to it.