Panoramic RV

[jgmarcotte]

Do you treat your black water tank?

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by SissyBoyFloyd

I will wait till I take another dump and smell how it goes.

Good.. everyone is waiting to hear how it comes out.

[Sensfan]

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

I just started to watch...they say that their RAM PRO-MASTER Model doesn’t come with Cruise Control. Wonder why?

Maybe its a carrot for potential Quebec buyers. We have spent years transiting through Quebec to/from the Maritimes. Our experiences suggest that a significant percentage of Quebec drivers do not use cruise control.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by Sensfan

Our experiences suggest that a significant percentage of Quebec drivers do not use cruise control.

Interesting observation. How is this evident?

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by N147JK

Interesting observation. How is this evident?

I often identify it by the driver who slows down... then you have to pass. A few minutes later, he is riding my bumper and then passes. A few minutes later he is slowing down again... rinse and repeat.

I have had 2 Promasters and they both had cruise control. It depends on what the converter orders. I wouldn't even buy a vehicle that didn't have it.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by mumkin

I often identify it by the driver who slows down... then you have to pass. A few minutes later, he is riding my bumper and then passes. A few minutes later he is slowing down again... rinse and repeat.

No doubt. The #1 driving skill that is lacking is the ability to anticipate needed throttle changes. People don't pay attention, get completely behind the vehicle on this, and aren't able to maintain a constant speed. But I see that go on everywhere, not just in Canada.

[Sensfan]

Originally Posted by N147JK

Interesting observation. How is this evident?

Mumkin nailed it in his latest post. We have encountered this behaviour almost every time we have driven the Trans Canada Highway between Montreal and Riviere du Loup, Quebec (an approximate 4 hour non-stop run). Sometimes we encountered it once, sometimes multiple times. One recall had us being passed by and subsequently passing the same vehicle six times.

[jakegw2]

Not a very good test. My PM regularly varies speed by +/- 3.5MPH when on cruise control. This is appallingly bad and one of the least enjoyable aspects of driving it. It does a bit better when the Tow/Haul mode is turned on, but still more variation in actual speed than any other vehicle I have driven. Of course the PM is under-powered for its cargo carrying capacity in my opinion.

That being said, I have noticed that my 2022 Odyssey varies in speed when on CC more than older vehicles, so I suspect it has something to do with trying to maximize fuel efficiency.

If so, it doesn't work in the real world as not being able to drive at the same pace as the rest of traffic on CC means you have to take over manually far more often (and use more gas to do so).

A bit like dishwashers probably. EPA keeps increasing the efficiency requirements. To still provide effective cleaning this requires very long cycle times. Net result is that household dishwasher usage is about half of what it use to be. Manually washing dishes uses several times more water (and because of water heating, electricity/energy), so overall energy and water consumption is higher as a result of the requirements! Forcing optimization of a narrow use case often undermines real-world efficiency.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by jakegw2

A bit like dishwashers probably. EPA keeps increasing the efficiency requirements. To still provide effective cleaning this requires very long cycle times. Net result is that household dishwasher usage is about half of what it use to be. Manually washing dishes uses several times more water (and because of water heating, electricity/energy), so overall energy and water consumption is higher as a result of the requirements! Forcing optimization of a narrow use case often undermines real-world efficiency.

LOL.. I love this! It's so true. We humans just can't leave good enough alone. Another example were the smog testing stations, thankfully now closed down where I live. I wonder how much more exhaust was expelled, money and time wasted, getting to and from those places rather than if they were never there in the first place?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by jakegw2

A bit like dishwashers probably. EPA keeps increasing the efficiency requirements. To still provide effective cleaning this requires very long cycle times. Net result is that household dishwasher usage is about half of what it use to be.

I very much doubt this claim. If you can back it up, I would be interested.

My guess is that this is an Internet myth associated with an (ultimately successful) 2019 campaign by the libertarian Competitive Enterprise Institute intended to weaken dishwasher efficiency regulations.

Background here:
https://www.nrdc.org/experts/joe-vuk...rs-environment

[Snowy]

Originally Posted by avanti

I very much doubt this claim. If you can back it up, I would be interested.

My guess is that this is an Internet myth associated with an (ultimately successful) 2019 campaign by the libertarian Competitive Enterprise Institute intended to weaken dishwasher efficiency regulations.

Background here:
https://www.nrdc.org/experts/joe-vuk...rs-environment

I would look to neither the Competitive Enterprise Institute nor the NRDC for definitive, single-source truth on any environmental issue. Activists already know the truth on any issue before they encounter it - their writing is just justifying their priors.

[jakegw2]

Avanti,

Which part of the account do you particularly doubt?
1. That hand-washing uses more water than a dishwasher?
2. That long cycle times nudge consumers to do more hand washing vs. dishwashing?

Anecdotally both are unquestionably true in our house. We frequently hand-wash dishes (probably 50%-60% of the time) when we need them done relatively soon as our fastest dishwasher cycle is 1.5 hours.

You might find this study interesting - they brought in a bunch of people and watched how they hand-washed dishes so they could measure the water and energy usage vs. a dishwasher. For those that run the water while hand-washing an average of 22 gallons of water is used vs. about 3.5 gallons for a dishwasher.

The study goes on to look at total lifecycle cost of a dishwasher and finds that with manufacturing energy included they use more energy than careful handwashing (using two basins, not running water). This would be relevant if you were weighing the purchase of a dishwasher, but irrelevant if you already have one. If you have one the dishwasher wins hands-down.

If you follow several of the references in the article you will find that the underlying assumptions about current dishwasher usage rates in the study are directly taken from EPA research.

Commercial dishwashers can wash a load in 30 seconds. I think if my home unit could do a load in 10 minutes I would pretty much give up handwashing entirely. I don't know the perfect balance point, but the article you reference states that dishwashers used to use twice as much water. Given the huge water usage difference between typical hand-washing practices and dishwashers there would be significant water usage reductions from shifting even a relatively small amount of washing away from hand-washing even if dishwashers used more water than current standards allow.

[Snowy]

Originally Posted by jgmarcotte

All the panoramic are coming with the cruise control. The demonstrators that Neil is using is the only one that do not have the cruise and it is a mistake made by the dealer.

Not only do the Panos come with cruise control, but my research into them was the first time i became aware of the new Ram Promaster chassis that now comes with all the modern goodies, including adaptive cruise control. I think Pano is a quality upfitter and now my top choice for a production upfit. For me the choice is now between a Pano and a Beyond unless i go custom.

The Pano seems better built, and i like the front lounge layout, but the Beyond has bigger batteries, a better engine, and AWD. I wish both used dual pane Dometic windows like the Travato GL, especially in the back, but i'd be reluctant to buy a Travato with its lousy construction and black box Volta system.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Sensfan

Mumkin nailed it in his latest post.

Actually Mumkin is a she... lol

"Not a very good test. My PM regularly varies speed by +/- 3.5MPH when on cruise control."

Jake is right that it is more variable than I would like, but neither of mine has not been quite that far off... mainly in very hilly areas and then I push the tow/haul

[Sensfan]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Actually Mumkin is a she... lol
"Not a very good test. My PM regularly varies speed by +/- 3.5MPH when on cruise control."
Jake is right that it is more variable than I would like, but neither of mine has not been quite that far off... mainly in very hilly areas and then I push the tow/haul

Madame Mumkin, please accept my sincere apology
Cruise control variation around set speed would definitely be one of the contributing factors. I had not given it any consideration.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Sensfan

Madame Mumkin, please accept my sincere apology
Cruise control variation around set speed would definitely be one of the contributing factors. I had not given it any consideration.

No apology required. I should have named myself Ms Mumkin. lol

I don't find the variance a big deal and perhaps the new adaptive cruise in the new models will have made things better.

[rdargenio]

I was pretty interested to watch the YT segment on the Panoramic but unfortunately the smallish bed (between full and queen) is a deal breaker for me. Too bad, it seems like a quality rig.

[AlexJ]

Agree. Plus it’s crosscoach sleeping. Our Safari Condo XL Flex Promaster is a similar floor plan but actually has a queen bed with North/South sleeping. Easier for one to get up in the middle of the night. The electric height adjustable bed gives us the ability to carry 4 bikes or 3 stand up paddle boards. Excellent build quality after 6 plus years of ownership and 90,000 miles.

[rdargenio]

Originally Posted by AlexJ

Agree. Plus it’s crosscoach sleeping. Our Safari Condo XL Flex Promaster is a similar floor plan but actually has a queen bed with North/South sleeping. Easier for one to get up in the middle of the night. The electric height adjustable bed gives us the ability to carry 4 bikes or 3 stand up paddle boards. Excellent build quality after 6 plus years of ownership and 90,000 miles.

Sounds great but looks like it’s not available in US market unfortunately. If I am wrong would put it on the short list.

[AlexJ]

No dealerships here. If you bring them the empty American van, they’ll covert it. We live in Texas.