Opinions on RT 210 Popular

[<<B-Guy>>]

Hi Johnny,

As a retired Mech Eng. I certainly agree with the KISS concept - not even sure I want a power awing or a macerator!

I do like the idea of the underhood generator though as compared to the Onan.


I think if I were to order a new 210 I would just go with extra AGM's rather than get involved with Lithium, and I really don't think I need an $1800 Volt start system. Of course if I buy used, or off the lot, I would just have to take what it comes with!

So far, I too have always bought used with our RV's and also always carry lots of tools - of course with a B van I'd have to pare that down - no more air comressor, air tools, angle grinders, several multimeters etc!

At the age I've reached now though, I wouldn't mind splurging on a new camper van with a 6year warrantee - although break downs and "issues" can still be be darned annoying and inconvenient no mater who pays the shot. If I had my druthers it would be a used one about a year or two old so I'd save the $$ and the initial bugs would (hopefully) be resolved, but still a few years warranty left!

Probably hard to find such an animal!

Your comments on the 210 are encouraging. I get about 11.5 - 12 mpg with our diesel truck towing the trailer in the interstate at 65-70, and about the same driving the truck around town. The truck on its own gets 20- 22 on the highway.

Thx! ............ Brian

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Thanks!

Seems a bit pricey though - I was offered a lower price from a local dealer on a brand new one - although his trade in allowance on our Airstream 30 ft Classic traer and 2500HD diesel truck was about $8k less than I felt I should get on a trade!

My problem at the moment is that I wouldn't buy a van unless/until I sold at leat our trailer if not both the truck and trailer so I am looking mostly at dealers at present for new RT's or very recent ones. I know I won't get as good a deal that way!

If cannot find a reasonable deal I will advertise the trailer and truck then look for a camper van.

That under mounted AC unit is huge - 30,000btu - I wonder why? I'm not sure it is a good idea where we live anyway due to the amount of salt they through on the roads in winter.

On the plus side, I guess in addition to all that cooling capacity, youdo gain teh interior storage space across the back at the top.

I did wonder about the dinette arrangement. I think I prefer the electric couch option that makes for a nice seating area, but I suppose the dinette offers the advantage of being able to carry long items. Also might be better for an eating arrangement for more than two

But neither of those advantages would be of great import to us. Are there other advantages I haven't considered?

Thanks! ............. Brian.

On the RV Trader website there is a way to contact the seller directly. I think the price is negotiable.

The undermount AC does release some cabinet space but there's a lot of cabinet space already in a 210.

Dinette Pro: Nicer arrangement for sleeping. The cushions appear to be substantially thicker than what is provided on the power seat version.
On floor cabinet storage is increased.

Dinette Cons: Costs about an additional $450. No seat belts in this layout.

The undermount AC shines in hot climates where the 11.8k BTU standard AC in the 210 doesn't cut it. There are different opinions pro and con about the compressor location, filter cleaning etc. With a Sprinter, an undermount AC reduces overall height about 8 inches but on the 210, this height is unchanged although there is probably some room produced to increase solar capacity.

Dealer vs. Private sales: In most states, dealer transactions are fully taxable, but in some states, private transactions are sales tax exempt which can add up to significant savings.

[<<B-Guy>>]

I can see the dinette could be something to consider based on your comments!

Here in Canada, if you trade something in on a purchase, then you only pay sales tax on the balance. (at least in Ontario, and I think the same on other provinces.)

If you make a private sale at about the same time that you buy a unit from a dealer - some dealer's offer to put the private sale through their books - apparently at no extra cost to you or to the person buying from you in the private sale. I have not participated as yet in that sort of deal, and am not quite sure if it is legal, but such an arrangement has been offered to me by RV dealers.

I'm sure the person buying your old equipt still winds up paying sales tax on it, but you, as the purchaser of the vehicle from the participating dealer only wind up paying tax on the difference between your private sale price and your purchase price!

I think thats how it works - my brain hurts now - better have another G&T!

Brian

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I can see the dinette could be something to consider based on your comments!

Here in Canada, if you trade something in on a purchase, then you only pay sales tax on the balance. (at least in Ontario, and I think the same on other provinces.)

If you make a private sale at about the same time that you buy a unit from a dealer - some dealer's offer to put the private sale through their books - apparently at no extra cost to you or to the person buying from you in the private sale. I have not participated as yet in that sort of deal, and am not quite sure if it is legal, but such an arrangement has been offered to me by RV dealers.

I'm sure the person buying your old equipt still winds up paying sales tax on it, but you, as the purchaser of the vehicle from the participating dealer only wind up paying tax on the difference between your private sale price and your purchase price!

I think thats how it works - my brain hurts now - better have another G&T!

Brian

It's a Willy Nilly affair in CONUS because the tax issue is controlled by each state. Some states permit you to offset the sales price with a trade in. California, for example, doesn't. Even worse, most states in which you purchase a vehicle will issue a temporary drive away permit that exempts you from their tax and you end up sales tax in the state you register the vehicle. California doesn't permit drive away permits and unless you take physical delivery outside the state you have to pay CA sales tax on a vehicle you have no intention of registering or operating in the state. It has very negative effects on prospective vehicle purchases by out of state customers so the net loss in business taxes probably exceeds any sales tax they might collect from out of state customers.

I notice you hail from Ontario. Can you buy a U.S. vehicle? I was under the impression that Roadtrek, for instance, builds their Canadian coaches to a different specification than coaches that comply with U.S. DOT standards.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Yes, we live less than an hours drive from the RT factory!

I wouldn't think we would get a getter deal buying one in the USA than here but who knows!


We did buy our present Airstream travel trailer, three years old, from an Airstream dealer in Ohio and legally imported it. It was a pretty straightforward process . We did have to pay Ontario tax (andI think also federal tax if I recall) when bringing it into Canada, and also have it inspected by a govt approved facility before we could get our Ontario license plates but it was a simple process. We did also have to obtain a letter from Airstream stating that it had no outstanding recalls on it.

For a powered vehicle I think it might be a bit more complicated as there might be some specs that it wouldn't meet and depending on the vehicle it could be required to change the bumper etc.

I was recently quoted about $127,000 Can. from a RT dealer near Toronto for a reasonably well equipped 210P. I don't think you can buy direct from the RT factory.

I was ok with that price but they were about 10k lower than I was hoping on our trade in allowance - as well I did not want to buy (this would be an order with 5 mo delivery) without at least seeing a 210, (have nowseen one albeit a 2005) and also seeing an Adventurous and hopefully also a Plateau to decide which way to go!

The saga continues!


Brian.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I was recently quoted about $127,000 Can. from a RT dealer near Toronto for a reasonably well equipped 210P. I don't think you can buy direct from the RT factory.

I was ok with that price but they were about 10k lower than I was hoping on our trade in allowance - as well I did not want to buy (this would be an order with 5 mo delivery) without at least seeing a 210, (have nowseen one albeit a 2005) and also seeing an Adventurous and hopefully also a Plateau to decide which way to go!

The saga continues!


Brian.

Correct, you can't deal directly with the factory. We bought a fully loaded 2017 210 for .82 x MSRP. However, with the longer backlog existing now, perhaps the discounts are stingier these days.

One thing that is a plus for RT is that their warranty is for six years with unlimited mileage and since it is transferable to a new owner that, goes toward increasing resale value. The PW build quality is right up there and they provide a five year warranty but the last time I checked it had a mileage limitation and was not transferable to a new owner. Additionally PW does not provide a pop-up appliance warranty beyond the warranty period provided by the appliance manufacturer.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Wow, you did very well! Wish I was as good a negotiator! (My wife is better than me though, so I should together more involved in that aspect - I am too much of a sucker especially when I really want something!)

Certainly RT's excellent warrantee (as well as the proximity of the factory to our home) are major factors that I am considering in making a choice but it is difficult putting a
"weighting" on the different factors that are relevant so that the decision remains a bit fuzzy!

My wife (and I admit me also) are taken by PW's decor, and from what I have read, my impression is that the consensus is that they have the edge on quality/craftsmanship

I'm not to sure about their multiplex wiring - it sure looks slick, and I don't pretend to understand much about it, but it does seem to me that if you have issues with the brains of the system, then you may not just lose the ability operate one applianec but perhaps lose everything since it is all controlled by this system.

I was initially impressed with RT's technology - ecotrek / voltstart et al, but with all the negative comments I have read I'm not so sure now - all well and good that you have the warrantee to pay for repairs, what about the aggravation?!

Not sure we need these things anyway, although I do favour the concept of the U/H generator over the Onan.

We need to go look at a few more models and concentrate on understanding our real needs!

Brian.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Wow, you did very well! Wish I was as good a negotiator! (My wife is better than me though, so I should together more involved in that aspect - I am too much of a sucker especially when I really want something!)

Certainly RT's excellent warrantee (as well as the proximity of the factory to our home) are major factors that I am considering in making a choice but it is difficult putting a "weighting" on the different factors that are relevant so that the decision remains a bit fuzzy!

My wife (and I admit me also) are taken by PW's decor, and from what I have read, my impression is that the consensus is that they have the edge on quality/craftsmanship

I'm not to sure about their multiplex wiring - it sure looks slick, and I don't pretend to understand much about it, but it does seem to me that if you have issues with the brains of the system, then you may not just lose the ability operate one applianec but perhaps lose everything since it is all controlled by this system.

I was initially impressed with RT's technology - ecotrek / voltstart et al, but with all the negative comments I have read I'm not so sure now - all well and good that you have the warrantee to pay for repairs, what about the aggravation?!

Not sure we need these things anyway, although I do favour the concept of the U/H generator over the Onan.

We need to go look at a few more models and concentrate on understanding our real needs!

Brian.

Evaluating ecotrek from anecdotal reports requires some caution. Statistically, it's more likely that these reports are from owners that have experienced trouble with their coaches. It's less likely that owners who have had no troubles at all will provide anecdotal reports reflecting that. Also, there is the syndrome of the song is ended, but the melody lingers on. Long after a mishap by a manufacturer has been corrected it still figures into the decisions of consumers. I recently talked with someone who adamantly refuses to buy a Firestone product because of the tire debacle they were involved in half a century ago.

Consequently., I would be less concerned about the current ecotrek reliability than I would be about the unvarnished fact that with the recent arrival of better integrated systems offered by Xantrex and Volta, the ecotrek design is rapidly becoming obsolete. Considering this, if other positive factors invite going for the 210, it's certainly arguable that the better route would be to go for the AGM version with an underhood generator.

Decor and build quality certainly belong in the equation but IMO it shouldn't be a predominant factor. It is after all a conveyance, not your hallowed home. I notice that some pretty seasoned veterans of this forum are going for the Travatos because of their definite virtues and aren't deterred by the fact that on close inspection WGO build quality is less than sterling.

Multiplex wiring is a mixed bag. Working properly it's the best thing since sliced toast, but if it quits you are just SOL. Sort of like your local DMV where if the computers are up, everything goes smoothly and when the computers are down they turn off the lights and push you out the door suggesting you come back tomorrow. BTW, the 210 doesn't employ multiplex wiring and we don't miss it.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Hi Cruising 7338.

I had thought that if we order a 210 I would order it with AGM's plus the two extras that come with the U/H generator pack. We would rarely -if ever - boondock!

I assumed that if that turned out to be a bad choice that hopefully down the line )Maybe even today?) there would be aftermarket lithium installations that would be available to retrofit although I don't know enough about them to know if that is a straightforward swap or maybe more complicated than I imagine!

We did look at a Travato at a Camping World when there this last winter. Most owners on forums seem uncharacteristically happy with them - despite their lower cost and one year warranty!

As you say it is normal for unhappy people post more than the happy ones - I have found that on the Airstream forum in which I participate! So the trend of commets I saw about Travatos and the enthusiasm surprised me.

When we saw one in the flesh we did like the very open floor plan and the twin bids look very good as does the rear bathroom (except for the shower curtain that attaches with snaps - think adding a normal shower curtain rail would be my first mod!)

As well, we did see a couple of quality issues on the particular one they had - for example a panel at the end of the galley with several switches and doodads on it was totally adrift.

Perhaps a Camping World "Technical expert" had to get in there frsome reason and just didn't button it up well!

One fairly major concern we had was how well the beds would serve as a seating / dining area.

The table was not set up so we couldn't evaluate that, but we are not tall people, and the seats were leg dangling height - especially for my less than 5 ft wife, and the seat back rests were way back due to the wide twin beds.
and would have needed several cushions to serve any purpose for us.

Still on my short list though, despite the negatives, but at the bottom end!

I do like the fact that you can order it with folding bike rack and ladder. I imagine the ladder could easily be used with some sort of home made bracket / shelf to carry folding cars and a small bbq.

Brian.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

The table was not set up so we couldn't evaluate that, but we are not tall people, and the seats were leg dangling height - especially for my less than 5 ft wife, and the seat back rests were way back due to the wide twin beds. and would have needed several cushions to serve any purpose for us.

I do like the fact that you can order it with folding bike rack and ladder. I imagine the ladder could easily be used with some sort of home made bracket / shelf to carry folding cars and a small bbq.

On a 210, the forward table is so convenient to pull out and use, I can't recall if we have ever used the rear one. Trying to design an area that works for both sitting and sleeping is a hopeless exercise in futility because of the vagaries of human anatomy. When you are prone, your weight is well distributed and you can design a mattress with the materials and density to support you comfortably. But when you are sitting, all of your body weight is compressed into an area no bigger than your butt requiring a different support design to be comfortable. So you end up with a configuration that is just acceptable....sort of.

Also, as you point out, cushion height is important which creates another problem. For seating you want the cushion height to be compatible with the floor so that feet don't dangle, but at the same time you want the beds to be sufficiently high to provide practical storage use under them. Once again, you end up with a compromise that is acceptable, but short of optimum.

If I recall, that bike rack option has to be ordered during the build. I don't think it can be added subsequently. I think I've seen one owner use the rack for mounting a spare tire. Remember that the mounting position for bikes is fairly high and more practical for light weight road bikes than heaver off road bikes with fatter tires. For our bikes we have opted for a Kuat platform rack that uses the standard rear hitch which I think is a more secure rack design. But one advantage of that factory rack is that it is sufficiently elevated that it doesn't interfere with the field of view of the backup camera.

[<<B-Guy>>]

I haven't seen a 210 with that front pull out table - it seems a good concept but I couldn't tell from pictures whether it comes out far enough to be suitable for use by teh passenger seat - or do you use driver seat plus second row paassenger side seat?

I suspect the compromise of the Travato bench seats wouldn't be a very practical compromise for us - we'd likely need all kinds of extra cushions plus footrests to be comfortable!

For carrying anything on the back, I think I would favour one of those side-swinging racks.

Reason being that when traveling with the trailer, we often stop overnight at Flying J's and such so would be sleeping with the rack and contents in place. It may be being too cautious, but for safety, I would like to maintain the possibility of getting out via teh back of the truck in the event of emergency (thinking fire) although I realise the probability is pretty low.

My idea was that with the swinging rack, when parked overnight, I would free up teh swinging hitch so it was ready to swing and if we had to open the back door, the door would move the bikes or storage box aside - hopefully I could rig things up to avoid paint damage but in any event that would be a minor consideration if ever we had to use this means of egress!

Just have to be very sure to re-secure the rack before leaving in the morning!

Not sure if this is a practical idea, but it should be.

The other thought was to carry teh bikes up front as we have done on our last three tow vehicles with good success. I imagine this can be done on the Chev Express although I have heard that installation of a front hitch receiver on the Promaster is not practical. I don't know about the MB.

I'm still thinking that for many reasons the 210 may be the best fit for us. Just have to concvince my wife!

I like the length too for best fit on our drive and a good compromise between living space and parking. Promaster is about a foot shorter, and standard Sprinter about a foot longer.
I have an absolute max length between our garage doors and city sidewalk that crosses our drive of 23'-8" and I think the 210 is 21'-11", I suppose maybe a few inches more with the continental kit, which I would want.

Your input has been very helpful - many thanks

Brian

[peteco]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

On a 210, the forward table is so convenient to pull out and use, I can't recall if we have ever used the rear one.

I agree the 210 slideout table has proven to be very easy to use and is a great feature (among many others) on the 210P. We kept the 3rd seat and use it and the passenger seat to dine at the table. The driver seat is too much trouble to turn to use with the table. The 210 has so much storage we haven't found a need to consider the armoire option in place of the 3rd seat.

[3fox3@att.net]

I own a 2007 210V that I purchased in 2010 with 5200 miles on it. We just returned to Central Florida from a trip to the Grand Canyon and my current mileage is 119970, so we've driven it a lot. We really like the vehicle. We've taken each of our 4 granddaughters on weeklong trips when they were 11 years old and had no problem accommodating 3 for a week. We typically take 2 to 3-week long trips but haven taken several 4 and a 5-week trip. We find storage is more than adequate and have had very few problems. The biggest problem has been the Onan generator which I conscientiously exercise for 1.5-2hrs monthly. However, i have had to replace the oil pump, replace an oil pan gasket that was causing the unit to lose its oil, replace some starter related electronics as well as have a general tuneup as it was running very irregularly at one point. While I don't typically use the generator much on trips, the monthly exercising should keep it running well. Unfortunately anytime you do any work on the generator it has to be removed from the vehicle (except for oil changes), so any repairs cost at least $500 but most are more in the $700-$1000 range. Roadtrek related repairs, include replacing the bathroom ceiling fan because the plastic top recently blew off (about $100) and a minor repair to the rear sofa electronics. We've had no problems with the toilet, water pump or macerator (although I do carry a spare macerator). Early on I replaced the original brakes with heavy duty pads and slotted discs because of the shimmying problems that are well known in the mid-2000's 3500 Express Vans. This has solved that problem completely and we have driven throughout the Black Hills and mountainous areas in the southwest without any problems...I still downshift frequently ,however, when going down steep hills. I have heard of very little problems with the 2006-2008 210's but have heard of more problems with the electronics in the newer ones. A friend has a 190, which seems to have enough space but the added width of the 210 makes a lot of difference in moving around inside. I am 6' tall and have no problem standing in the mid-section. Of course the area in from of the forward axel and behind the rear axel is 2" less in height but you don't typically stand upright in these areas so it is not a problem. on a mute-week trip, I typically get between 13.3 and 14.3 mpg depending on the extent of air conditioning being used and and how much hill climbing is involved in a trip. I would certainly get another 2007 or 2008 if I were seeking a replacement unit. Hope this helps.

[cruising7388]

[QUOTE=Wingeezer;71653]I haven't seen a 210 with that front pull out table - it seems a good concept but I couldn't tell from pictures whether it comes out far enough to be suitable for use by teh passenger seat - or do you use driver seat plus second row paassenger side seat?

Here's a photo of that layout. The ease of putting the table in use is slicker 'n snot on a door knob. The only minor drawback is that you can't access the underneath top draw while the table is out. As you can see, the table pretty much locks in the driver so the better set up for two is to use the passenger side seats. However for this to work best, the second passenger seat should be the Captain chair option because it permits sliding and re-positioning the chair. It positions very nicely for dining and thrashing away on a lap top.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by peteco

I agree the 210 slideout table has proven to be very easy to use and is a great feature (among many others) on the 210P. We kept the 3rd seat and use it and the passenger seat to dine at the table. The driver seat is too much trouble to turn to use with the table. The 210 has so much storage we haven't found a need to consider the armoire option in place of the 3rd seat.

Yep, it's a learning process. Initially we didn't think the third seat would be of much practical use for two of us and it does narrow the entryway but your experience was similar to ours in subsequently discovering its virtue. I agree that in a 210, an armoire there would be storage overkill.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Yep, it's a learning process. Initially we didn't think the third seat would be of much practical use for two of us and it does narrow the entryway but your experience was similar to ours in subsequently discovering its virtue. I agree that in a 210, an armoire there would be storage overkill.

Another nice thing about the 3rd seat is it can be made into a bed. Scroll down to the bottom of the first page to see how I do it.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...ular-6621.html

[<<B-Guy>>]

Great info - and encouraging! Thanks!

Carrying a spare macerator sounds like something I would be inclined to do! I carry lots of spare parts for our Airstream trailer (water pump, wheel bearings, etc.) and that seems to guarantee that I never need them!

As for the macerator (I have never had one) is there a normal slide valve upstream (so to speak!) of the macerator inlet so that if you had to, you could swap macerators with a full black tank? Otherwise, I suppose you'd have to have the tan pumped out first via the toilet - or is there perhaps a parallel gravity dump option?

Brian.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Great info - and encouraging! Thanks!

Carrying a spare macerator sounds like something I would be inclined to do! I carry lots of spare parts for our Airstream trailer (water pump, wheel bearings, etc.) and that seems to guarantee that I never need them!

As for the macerator (I have never had one) is there a normal slide valve upstream (so to speak!) of the macerator inlet so that if you had to, you could swap macerators with a full black tank? Otherwise, I suppose you'd have to have the tan pumped out first via the toilet - or is there perhaps a parallel gravity dump option?

Brian.

Yes, with or without a macerator there is a black water and grey water slide valve. With regard to the macerator, they are all pretty much the same to use but I think that they vary considerably with respect to what's involved in repairing and replacing them. This is way beyond my plumbing pay grade and there are guys and girls who have tangled with this question. I think some have been able to incorporate a way to bypass the macerator and gravity dump. Others have worked out some way to replace the macerator without enduring grief. Seek and ye shall find.

[<<B-Guy>>]

I have always had a "House rule" with our RV's that unless it is a case of dire emergency, we only "pee" in the RV toilet!

So a macerator should have an easy time coping with us - and hopefully me with it!

I had always been against the idea of a macerator, favouring the simplest arrangement but I suppose there are some advantages.

For one thing, I have read that some B's with gravity dumps have a very low outlet that can be problematic when the camp sewer opening is high. I have encountered that problem with our Airstream trailer which is lower than most other trailers.

And also, with a macerator and a short extension, I should be able to dump with an extension hose through our garage and into an adjacent powder room toilet!

Brian.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I have always had a "House rule" with our RV's that unless it is a case of dire emergency, we only "pee" in the RV toilet!

So a macerator should have an easy time coping with us - and hopefully me with it!

I had always been against the idea of a macerator, favouring the simplest arrangement but I suppose there are some advantages.

One of the advantages is that you could repeal your "House rule". With a fully-sealed macerator system, using the facilities as intended causes no more unpleasantness or effort than "pee only".

Owning a B-van can make travel incredibly luxurious. You should "live the dream", IMO.