New Texas Entrant Into Class B Market

[mojoman]

We are using sunshade material with magnets. We put them over the sun facing windows. You can see through them and allow airflow if you open a window. They do make quite a difference in the desert.

[BBQ]

.

I am surprised the smaller upfitters, eg Pleasure-way, have not pushed better insulation as a premium selling point.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.
I am surprised the smaller upfitters, eg Pleasure-way, have not pushed better insulation as a premium selling point.

As stated above, I think that anything that can't easily be demonstrated as part of a 10 minute tour on the sales lot has approximately ZERO cash value to the upfitter.

Now, I could imagine addressing this problem directly; say, by designing in a removable panel in the back of a closet that lets the sales guy show the amazing insulation. But such techniques are WAY beyond the marketing prowess of the RV industry.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by avanti

As stated above, I think that anything that can't easily be demonstrated as part of a 10 minute tour on the sales lot has approximately ZERO cash value to the upfitter.

Now, I could imagine addressing this problem directly; say, by designing in a removable panel in the back of a closet that lets the sales guy show the amazing insulation. But such techniques are WAY beyond the marketing prowess of the RV industry.

I think it's influenced by the region. In Texas, that would be a successful selling point, with or without visual demonstration. People know better here than to ignore it.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I think it's influenced by the region. In Texas, that would be a successful selling point, with or without visual demonstration. People know better here than to ignore it.

The northern users need better insulation too.

In the old days, most people would put their RV away when the temp turn cold.

Today, I see more and more people use their RV in extended seasons.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

It's funny that you consider the absence of cooling complaints from RT owners with darker colors as good evidence that there may be nothing to complain about, while concomitantly, you're loath to give Avion the benefit of the doubt despite the absence of any combination waste tank complaints from Azur owners. (BTW, for the record,I have no relationship of any kind with Avion)

But, I digress.....

First you have to find an Avion Azur owner to know. I don't recall any input from this forum, the 12,000 member Facebook Roadtreking:The Group or the 3,800 member Facebook Class B Campervan group.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by mojoman

Darkcolors can absorb 70 to 90 percent of the sun’s radiant energy, light-colored paint can help reflect the sun’s heat away. White for example, will gain 35 percent less heat than black, according to the solar folks. I have reversible window shades for the windshield and door windows, in the winter, with the black side out, they actually warm the interior.
If you mostly visit cold places, buy a dark RV.

Predicting Solar Heating of Cars and Things

[booster]

I think that the number of people that would spend extra, and probably quite a bit extra, for very good insulation is pretty small. We are talking about a lot of the same audience that will buy a $400K+ house and add to the mortgage with lots of visual spiff options, but won't spring for over the minimum code R2 windows or higher efficiency heating, AC, and water heating. We see it all the time in Minnesota, big fancy new house and you can't sit close to the windows because it is so cold there, and they probably have condensation running off them besides.

As they say "trendy spendy' sells. Practical stuff, not so much.

[mojoman]

I sold RV's for awhile, the wife ultimately made the final decision and it usually was based on bling, colors and bathroom size. My apologies for such a sexist statement.

[TRFranta]

Originally Posted by NorthPotomac

Regency One is now selling Sprinter Class B's. Looks interesting.

I felt the same way when I saw one down in Lakeland Florida
Liked the wet bath in the rear

[mtmdatlanta]

Avion actually has a section in their website about their wall construction, with the R values of some of the components listed. They talk about their use of Azdel panels as well as AstroShield reflective insulation. They are the only upfitter that specifies such details, and in pretty good detail to boot.

[SiennaGuy]

Originally Posted by avanti

As stated above, I think that anything that can't easily be demonstrated as part of a 10 minute tour on the sales lot has approximately ZERO cash value to the upfitter.

Now, I could imagine addressing this problem directly; say, by designing in a removable panel in the back of a closet that lets the sales guy show the amazing insulation. But such techniques are WAY beyond the marketing prowess of the RV industry.

To me, and I'm sure many others, R values are abstract and seeing layers of insulation doesn't mean much. If insulation was presented in the following ways, it would be more concrete:

1. The $ amount of fuel/energy you save heating an RV that's insulated and keeping it warm.

2. The $ amount of fuel/energy you save in AC cooling an RV that's insulated and keeping it cool.

3. The $ amount of fuel/energy you save keeping the fridge cool in an RV that's insulated.

If this was printed on a piece of paper or put on a display card, it could easily fit into a 10 minute tour.

To be realistic, the above numbers would have to be countered by the weight and the cost of insulation. Since people carry all kinds of heavy stuff on their RVs, like golf clubs, big BBQs, etc., weight may be an issue, but I don't think it's a deal killer. The cost of insulating a single RV after it's been built has got to be much more than the cost of insulating a bunch of RVs on an assembly line. Because of this, there are cost advantages for consumers if upfitters did the insulation.

These numbers would be calculations and estimates of course, but they make the concept of insulation more real. There would have to be some industry standard method of coming up with these numbers, so consumers would be comparing apples to apples. My gut says that the current RV industry isn't up to this task. Perhaps 3M (the makers of Thinsulate) and/or other major insulation companies would be more interested in developing these numbers. These numbers could increase the demand for their products.

[mojoman]

Or how long your pet will survive with the windows closed.

[Saldar]

Originally Posted by avanti

Predicting Solar Heating of Cars and Things

I find this publication pretty authoritative, tho you have to pay to see all the details. I don't know where a dark grey but metallic color like most paint these days, would land.

Due to less AC:
"Selecting a typical white or silver shell instead of a black shell would raise fuel economy by 0.44 mpg.".

https://heatisland.lbl.gov/publicati...lar-reflective

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Davydd

First you have to find an Avion Azur owner to know. I don't recall any input from this forum, the 12,000 member Facebook Roadtreking:The Group or the 3,800 member Facebook Class B Campervan group.

Holy Toledo! Donald Rumsfeld rises again - "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!"

[InterBlog]

There are two Regency models at the 2017 Houston RV Show, which is being held right now. My review of them is embedded near the middle of this blog post.

CLASS B VIEWS AND REVIEWS: THE 2017 HOUSTON RV SHOW

[NorthPotomac]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

There are two Regency models at the 2017 Houston RV Show, which is being held right now. My review of them is embedded near the middle of this blog post.

CLASS B VIEWS AND REVIEWS: THE 2017 HOUSTON RV SHOW

Excellent, thanks.

Way too much bling in the Regency models for me. [33% discount from list is revealing]

And I note with pleasure that the color scheme in our currently-being-built new Pleasure Way (Ascent) is exactly the one you extol in your review.

To us, PW achieved the best quality-price balance.

[wincrasher]

Wow, what a rabbit hole this conversation has become.

But I'll tell you this - my lowly, cheap Travato, with dark charcoal paint, minimal insulation, big single pane windows and modest heating & cooling systems, has been quite comfortable in both winter & summer.

I have no issues keeping it cool in the blazing summer sun, and the Truma is more than adequate to keep it toasty warm in winter. Even with the lousy door seals. Does it waste some energy compared to vans that cost 2x and 3x? Yep, but so what?

[talktodean]

Unless some kind of new miracle product comes out, I believe Class B's especially will have trouble with "building in" significant R Values. You need depth to do so. All the reflective stuff doesn't accomplish much at all. Dead air space, or insulating qualities of specific materials in needed. How about a Dupont Poly Fil like in sleeping bags or outwear
in these narrow spaces? Maybe we blow in down feathers in a moisture resistant breathing envelope of some sort? Meanwhile, BTU's of heating or cooling efficiently as possible, and amply, to suffice for all environmental conditions. Plain white paint, no metal flake, makes a HUGE difference. You have to stay to TRUE WHITE though. Even like MB White/Grey, will heat up. Only when you put your hand on the hood of a vehicle in the blazing summer sun, and can keep it there, do you have true white paint.

[mojoman]

The miracle products are out there, Aerogel, Thinsulate. The problem is the extra time and $$ it takes to do the extra steps to maximize the insulation. Incorporating thermal breaks, dual pane windows and using non hydroscopic materials.