New? Hymer Travato 59k knockoff "Sunlight"

[Saldar]

The Travato 59k floor plan was attractive to me. The Hymer "Sunlight" appears to have a similar twin bed, rear bath plan. I haven't come across this model before.

2017 ERWIN HYMER GROUP SUNLIGHT V1

You can find pictures of two available vans at RV trader . com today. I can't find any info about the Sunlight on the Hymer website though.

[rockymtnb]

Sunlight is Erwin Hymer Group's new entry level Class B brand of vans, sold through Camping World's 124 dealer network with MSRP prices starting at $69,900.

That Sunlight Van One (V1) model is both shorter (20ft) and rather basic compared to Winnebago's Travato 59k. But then again it's aimed at a different entry level market, with an MSRP $15-20k below the Travato.

Jim Hammill claims they're producing 10 Sunlight units a day to meet demand. That's a lot of units! But then again perhaps the simplified designs allow fast production throughput.

[ClassB4Me]

Wow.... The Sunlight Van One makes the Travato 59k look like and ARV model. I never though Erwin Hymer would go in this direction. Cheap materials and components everywhere you look. I can see why they are selling to 'under the raydar'.

[wincrasher]

Interesting they didn't "debut" these at any of the shows. Guess not very proud of these. But they did show Simplicity at the shows - it's in a similar vain - make it as cheap as possible. Looks like they have been successful.

In 2015, Hammil explained to me how they had a K "clone" sitting in the wings. It would be far nicer than what that POS company Winnebago could ever dream of putting out. Seeing the results of his 2+ years of "hard work", I must say he's made an impression. Not a good one mind you...

[talktodean]

This is a "private label" for Camping World, with a particular target audience, as a base level intro to RVing.

[Firesteel]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

Jim Hammill claims they're producing 10 Sunlight units a day to meet demand. That's a lot of units! But then again perhaps the simplified designs allow fast production throughput.

I find this statement interesting, as who is the demand? THe folks on this board are pretty knowledgeable about the CLass B market and this is something new even here....good luck to them.

[BBQ]

.

When I first looked at the 59K,
I thought to myself what a stupid design.

Then I noticed WGO is selling them like hotcakes.
The G to K ratio is an even 50-50.
I said to myself they must know something I don't.

Then I took a closer look at the K.
The light bulb clicked.
As we get older, it gets more difficult to get in and out of the bed.
We want a bed that is open right to the aisle.
Most of the old folks prefer separate beds
because old folks need to go to the washroom at night,
and we do not like to be disturbed when the other wakes up.
Furthermore, North Americans want bigger baths than the Europeans.
And the K has a big bath.

Good going !
I think the Hymer clone would sell well too.

[talktodean]

Great observations BBQ. All that you said is quite true. I also think "price point" will help inspire a new participants/owners into the RV World. To that subject, especially younger entrants, and however the sleeping is arranged, they will adapt and modify to work for them.

[mojoman]

I'm guessing the low price of a Promaster is allowing a lower price of these units. I'm guessing the builder is paying <$25K for the van. Unless ford can compete with the low selling prices of the Promaster, we will see the market flooded with Promaster low end B's and rental B's.

[Saldar]

Thanks for your insight on the story of this new offering.
If my 59k ever comes in, I thought I would have to learn to apologize for having a cheap van like Wincrasher sometimes does on the forum. No more: the Sunlight appears to be the current winner of the race to bottom!

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by mojoman

I'm guessing the low price of a Promaster is allowing a lower price of these units. I'm guessing the builder is paying <$25K for the van. Unless ford can compete with the low selling prices of the Promaster, we will see the market flooded with Promaster low end B's and rental B's.

I don't think the Transit can compete with the Promaster pricewise. It's only about 2k less than the Mercedes platform.

[mojoman]

I saw an ad at Huntington Beach Dodge for new 1500 Promasters for $21K. They left a lot a room in their pricing of the Promasters to offer deals, I can't imagine what they are selling them wholesale for to the RV MFG's.

[wincrasher]

WGO gets fleet pricing on Promasters, but I doubt the price is in the 20's. They are ordering long wheelbase, high roof 3500, 1 tons, with some extra cost packages - like the Nav, Aluminum wheels, etc.

What you saw in those pics is a bare-bones 1500. I think A/C is standard, not sure. Note the steel wheels.

Looks to me that Roadtrek is preserving their typical margin by de-contenting the van. Not really a good sign in my view. In most businesses, a higher grade product carries a higher margin, and a low grade, a lower margin. I don't think RT operates that way, but they want to be low-price leader. It's an interesting strategy, we'll see if it works.

[BBQ]

.

Unfortunately most RV buyers are emotional buyers.
They fall in love at first sight, and sign on the dotted line.

WGO has been successful in capturing this "naive" market using bare minimum machines.
Maybe be "naive" is a strong word.
Maybe I should use "uninformed",
or "less-informed" customers.

Take a look at these examples...
The first gen Travato had AC plug-in only water heater.
Tell me, how many first time RV shoppers would ask such a detail question?

The first gen Travato has one AGM battery. There is no option to add more.

One WGO owner was upset that the AC electrical outlet has no power.
Of course not; it does not have an inverter.

Another example... maybe not so important to most people,
RT wraps the kitchen with a stainless steel back splash. (ie $$$)
WGO has plain walls.
We are seeing lots of Travato owners installing back splash after they have used the kitchen a few times and found out the shortcoming.


The mass market is about cost. The lowest cost product wins.
RT is learning.

[mojoman]

Not much difference between a 2500 and 3500 Promaster, the 3500 gets a lower gear ratio, rear sway bar, one more leaf spring. There than that, I couldn't find much more difference for the extra cost and minimal increase in load capacity. I bought the 2500 and added air bags and oversized sway bar. I didn't want the lower ratio and it turns out I didn't need it.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

WGO has been successful in capturing this "naive" market using bare minimum machines.
Maybe be "naive" is a strong word.
Maybe I should use "uninformed",
or "less-informed" customers.

Reality Check
Both naive and uninformed are very strong words. Most consumers fall in the category of being slightly uninformed but hopeful the surface materials are indicative of the 'bones and functional details' of the product.

The majority (80% approx.) of consumers DO NOT have the time / WILL NOT make the time to research their purchases thoroughly. it is the remaining 20% that are the 'oddballs' (from the perspective of a salesperson). Those 20-percenters will negotiate harder, know more about the product than the salesperson, and know exactly what they want and don't want.

The front-people for RV manufacturers are a good indication for what the post purchase experience will be.

Winnebago and the leadership provided by Product Manager, Russ Garfin in the class B&C segment rises to the top for me because while not perfect WGO listens to customers and makes meaningful and continuous product improvements. WGO as a company may not have the sexist products but their leadership demonstrates stability and tries hard not to make their customers 'test dummies' for product-line changes.

A-Conversation-with-Winnebago

I've watched Roadtrek over the years and what has happen under the Erwin Hymer acquisition. Disappointed would be an understatement. It feels like an opportunity missed and my impressions of the Hymer group's leadership have dropped significantly. I can't speak to what happens in the EU but for Hymer NA a reboot is needed in their strategic plan.

J.H. is probably a nice person but embracing or considering change in management style is hard if you think you are very successful. Erwin Hymer NA feels like a company disconnected from the mothership.

ENGINEERED TO PERFECTION
We pride ourselves on building North America’s number one selling class B motorhome, an achievement we have proudly held since 1990

When WGO brings their RELIABLE version of engine generator equipped class B/C with 'EcoTrek-like' technology to the market maybe a wakeup call will occur in the EHG.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Unfortunately most RV buyers are emotional buyers.
They fall in love at first sight, and sign on the dotted line.

This is true, but I am not sure it is unfortunate.

Buying an RV is kind of like deciding to have a baby. No sane person would make the decision to have a first child if they knew what they were in for. By the time a second child comes along, they have that knowledge, but they also have the requisite skills.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by avanti

This is true, but I am not sure it is unfortunate.

Buying an RV is kind of like deciding to have a baby. No sane person would make the decision to have a first child if they knew what they were in for.

Good analogy.... I think hope is a huge driver for 'short-cutting' a thorough product examination. A brand that has been in business for a while, is seen on the roads often, and has not been mired in bad press on TV / Internet will rise to the top for consumers.

[booster]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

WGO gets fleet pricing on Promasters, but I doubt the price is in the 20's. They are ordering long wheelbase, high roof 3500, 1 tons, with some extra cost packages - like the Nav, Aluminum wheels, etc.

What you saw in those pics is a bare-bones 1500. I think A/C is standard, not sure. Note the steel wheels.

Looks to me that Roadtrek is preserving their typical margin by de-contenting the van. Not really a good sign in my view. In most businesses, a higher grade product carries a higher margin, and a low grade, a lower margin. I don't think RT operates that way, but they want to be low-price leader. It's an interesting strategy, we'll see if it works.

This is a very important point, IMO. Nearly every product line that contains a bargain or entry level product sets a lower margin on that product. The theory is market share a future move up customers, which certainly are valid reasons. It is the reason the car manufacturers have to build the small cars offshore, as every penny counts when you have very low margins.

Roadtrek won't be able to compete on price with any company that uses lower margins on the low end of the product line, unless they mystically start getting way more efficient than WGO and others, and improve their quality enough to cover big warranty and rework costs. Roadtrek appears to have the same quality across all price ranges, but it isn't because the cheap ones are better than other brands, it is because the expensive ones are worse than other brands.

[ClassB4Me]

Sunlight — FREEDOM IS MY LIFE
Sunlight is a young, dynamic company, whose vehicles are built in one of the most modern and efficient factories in Europe. The company banks on a fair price-performance ratio, modern, fresh design and comprehensive standard equipment.

This unique combination of unbeatable price ratio and excellent "made in Germany" quality is the secret to the success of the company.

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