New? Hymer Travato 59k knockoff "Sunlight"

[Davydd]

That Sunlight is not a Class B.

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Originally Posted by rockymtnb [incorrect]
WGO has been successful in capturing this "naive" market using bare minimum machines.
Maybe be "naive" is a strong word.
Maybe I should use "uninformed",
or "less-informed" customers.

Reality Check
Both naive and uninformed are very strong words. Most consumers fall in the category of being slightly uninformed but hopeful the surface materials are indicative of the 'bones and functional details' of the product...

ClassB4Me - I believe you have misquoted me. I didn't write the post about WGO capturing the 'naive' market. That was someone else.

For the record I'm rather impressed with Winnebago's record on the Travato, they seem to have incrementally improved each model year. Kudos to them!

[azuttre]

Very interesting reading about everyone's first impressions. To be honest I got very interested when I saw them on rvtrader. And rightly so, I am the market they are going after. I'm 31, never owned an RV, purchasing one is going to be a huge expense for me. I've been looking at a few of the WGOs and of course, the SUNLIGHT gets my attention straight away, just with the price tag.

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

For the record I'm rather impressed with Winnebago's record on the Travato, they seem to have incrementally improved each model year. Kudos to them!

That is definitely something I have experienced, even as a newbie. I did notice an obvious difference between the older Travato models vs the 2016/2017 models that I have seen.

I am also excited to see what happens to that WGO outdoor van concept. Probably outside of my price range, but going in the right way in my opinion.

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by azuttre

I am also excited to see what happens to that WGO outdoor van concept. Probably outside of my price range, but going in the right way in my opinion.

If you like the layout of Winnebago's Concept Adventure Van but in a lower cost 2WD variant you might want to make your desires known to Russ Garfin, Class B product manager at Winnebago.

The Promaster 2500 chassis used in Hymer's Sunlight would also be a great fit for a lower cost Winnebago Adventure Van. The Promaster is wide enough to fit the CAV's height adjustable rear bed without needing the Sprinter's custom Flarespace bodywork. And the CAV's lithium battery / induction cooktop could be swapped out for standard propane to save money.

No guarantee it would become a product, but it's worth making the request. And Russ Garfin has been actively seeking feedback from the VanLife community for new Class B / small RV ideas. You can see Russ's vanlife user forum conversation on Winnebago's WinnebaGoLife site at:

A Conversation with Winnebago | WinnebagoLife

There was a lot of discussion around modular and more basic RV designs in that forum.

[rockymtnb]

VIN weight label for the Sunlight V1 indicates an OCCC carrying capacity of 1198 lbs.

Advertised pricing appears to run the gamut from full MSRP over $70k on down to $58,995 for a dealer advertising 'show pricing'.

I believe this is the first new Class B with a street price below $60k that we've seen in a long time.

[Rocketman53]

Originally Posted by azuttre

Very interesting reading about everyone's first impressions. To be honest I got very interested when I saw them on rvtrader. And rightly so, I am the market they are going after. I'm 31, never owned an RV, purchasing one is going to be a huge expense for me. I've been looking at a few of the WGOs and of course, the SUNLIGHT gets my attention straight away, just with the price tag.

I don't know of any luxury good that is truly booming these days. Seems Hymer is meeting a market that it sees underserved by the more familiar names. I can understand why...there are many who have never recovered from the economic collapse of 2008, still underwater and holding less-than-high-rewarding employment. The vehicle may look "basic", and those with the money and inclination can always up-buy their necessary bits.

Secondly, that younger crowd is less likely to be outdoors than their parents (boomers), who remember and revere the family vacation road trips of yore. Time is also an issue if working. Toss in that few are mechanically inclined, thus likely dependent on expensive dealers for maintenance or repairs. Hate to think of the depreciation hit in those first years of ownership. Add whatever other factors you'd like. It's not boding boom times for RV sales, IMHO.

[Saldar]

Winnebago Life just had a story called “A business approach to buying a motorhome“. The story includes a spreadsheet for RV costs including fixed and variable costs. I adapted the sheet for my eventual new Travato, adding tax, removing food, and conservatively adjusting other costs. Over the van's lifetime (with the article’s assumption of selling for half price after five years), the sheet calculated $900/month just for it to stand in the driveway. Add a week of travel every month (camping and fuel) and the cost goes to up to $1400.

In the spreadsheet I changed the van purchase price to that of a Sunlight ($59K), and the fixed monthly cost went down to $766.

Because we travel with our poodle, we are limited in accommodations we can rent. I calculated this AFTER we ordered our van , and fortunately we can’t beat that weekly rental rate even at our favorite old beach hotel in low season. So I haven't been coldly logical about this purchase, but for me the fixed price ($900/mo) seems like a large luxury. To hope to travel sufficiently to make our cost seem reasonable, we need to be retired.

The calculations would be different and likely more favorable if we intended to use the van as a daily driver, didn’t buy new, had a large family, kept it forever (or cost were no object), but I don't feel even this inexpensive Sunlight would have worked before we retired. Can vans start to shift busy working families from tents or popup trailers at this price? (Our pullout is for sale!)

[Scottbaldassari]

Originally Posted by Saldar

Winnebago Life just had a story called “A business approach to buying a motorhome“. The story includes a spreadsheet for RV costs including fixed and variable costs.

Interesting: Quickly plugging in my numbers with my Travato brings my personal costs to $700 per month. I'm not sure how the "Variable costs" work in there, it seems you would have those costs no matter how you "vacationed", and in many cases, the RV represents a "savings" rather than a cost. (Gas VS air fare or rentals, Campgrounds VS Hotels, etc). If I traveled without an RV as much as I do WITH an RV (which of course I WOULDN'T), travel expenses would be MUCH higher..) So the figures really get mixed up..

In addition, I DO use the RV as a 2nd (or third) car, and enjoy daily road trips on a weekly (or semi weekly) basis, which of course, I couldn't enjoy in the same way at all, if I were without it. So really, it boils down to the convenience of having it, and how it actually adds to, and changes your life (or travel) style. $700 a month is more than I would have guessed, but I still consider it a "bargain". We LOVE the luxury of jumping in our B and traveling with our "home" at any time we choose!

[Rocketman53]

Using the Winnebago Life model, the Jucy costs me $399/mo, or running it into the ground with no sale recoup, $499 a month. The good news is that I use it as a daily driver, and pay no storage or other unique fees that others may encounter, so the "cost" is somewhat less.

The apparent point is that any of these specialized vehicles is going to be an expensive luxury to most people. (The "average" household income is about $50,000.)

Originally Posted by Scottbaldassari

Interesting: I'm not sure how the "Variable costs" work in there, it seems you would have those costs no matter how you "vacationed", and in many cases, the RV represents a "savings" rather than a cost. (Gas VS air fare or rentals, Campgrounds VS Hotels, etc). If I traveled without an RV as much as I do WITH an RV (which of course I WOULDN'T), travel expenses would be MUCH higher..) So the figures really get mixed up.

It's like my DW spending $50 to save ten with a coupon...if it's money spent, it's money spent. This is a cold business analysis.

[booster]

We did an analysis in about 2006-2007 with the goal not to find out a monthly cost or dollar value, but just to see how much we would have to use a class b before we were under the cost of having a nice SUV and staying in hotels. IIRC, I used a $65K purchase price class b and depreciation at the time, which was faster than now so cost more. I think I used 10 years of ownership.

We crossed over on the cost comparision at about 6-8 weeks a year, and that covered, in both scenarios the costs of keeping the vehicle all the time.

[Saldar]

This is my version of the WBO article spreadsheet. As shown it calculates the monthly cost of a new Travato used for 7 days a month (every month!). Many of the assumptions (like fuel prices, and probable over-payment ) can be toyed with, but I don't think changes would make a big difference given a new van. I found some flaws in the published sheet, but they don't invalidate the article, and it was helpful to see his approach and his guesstimates.

The results reflect what my gut told me. If we don't use this thing it will be a shame and a waste. Our expectation was that we would have it to play with this month....

The url to the spreadsheet article is: A business approach to buying a motorhome | WinnebagoLife

[tmshih]

Just found a Camping World video of the Hymer Sunlight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqhKa8bBctA

No specs seem to be listed yet for tanks, generator, water, etc

[talktodean]

I saw one in person the other day for a walk through. All I can say, is quoting what my Dad always taught me. "When you buy low sometimes, you are paying high". Even discounted down to let's say $50,000.00, and probably more like $59,000.00, it's a half ton van. It occurred el cheapo to me. I get it may lure in 1st time new buyers because of price point, but in actuality for what you get, it is a very high price IMO.

[mumkin]

I checked one out today at a nearby Camping World that just arrived. Not surprisingly, there is NO information on battery, generator, or tank sizes. They had received no information from Hymer?? And a rep delivered this rig to them. The salesman made two trips back to the managers and all is still a mystery.

It is cheap, but I do like the floor plan... a short Travato. LOL It is listed on the internets at just under $60K. Looks like they are popping this model out... 39 of them are listed so far.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by mumkin

I checked one out today at a nearby Camping World that just arrived. Not surprisingly, there is NO information on battery, generator, or tank sizes. They had received no information from Hymer?? And a rep delivered this rig to them. The salesman made two trips back to the managers and all is still a mystery.

It is cheap, but I do like the floor plan... a short Travato. LOL It is listed on the internets at just under $60K. Looks like they are popping this model out... 39 of them are listed so far.

That would surely drive up the industry unit sales figure.

[kmrotterdam]

I called a few Camping Worlds (they seem to be offered exclusively through them), and they knew nothing about them. One sales person told me the following reading from a spec sheet given to them on delivery: 200 watts of solar on the roof with charge controller, 20 AH lithium batteries, propane for cooktop and heat, fridge is electric only, 27 gallon combined black/gray tank, TV/DVD on extendable arm (although I see none in the photos I've seen online). That's all I could get.

[kmrotterdam]

I am very interested in buying one. All the one's I see listed are a 4-5 drive from me, so I need to drive a distance to check one out (I'm located in Arlington, VA). Considering the price of $60K, I think it is a good deal for a new Class B on a ProMaster chassis. My other options are a 10 year old Class B with 50K miles -- or in the area generally. I know it's not premium, but it is also not a premium price ... seems to have everything that I need, and I don't have to worry about dealing with an old used van with all the mileage and I know it's history.

[kmrotterdam]

The sales person also said it had an under hood generator.

Originally Posted by kmrotterdam

I called a few Camping Worlds (they seem to be offered exclusively through them), and they knew nothing about them. One sales person told me the following reading from a spec sheet given to them on delivery: 200 watts of solar on the roof with charge controller, 20 AH lithium batteries, propane for cooktop and heat, fridge is electric only, 27 gallon combined black/gray tank, TV/DVD on extendable arm (although I see none in the photos I've seen online). That's all I could get.

[dev13steph]

So I just purchased a V1 Sunlight. Info was hard to find but I have the spec sheet they received from Hymer. Here are a few more specs.

6 gallon water heater
2k power inverter
5.9 gallon propane
17.6 gallon fresh water
23.1 black/grey combo tank

New models arriving are coming with the underhood generator and 200 lithium Ecotrek. That is what sold it for me. 19 foot rig with a large bath and option to make a king bed, pretty good deal. I was told the AC would run 1 to 2 hours on battery before you need to turn on the engine. But with lithium the system charges much faster than normal lead coach batteries.

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by dev13steph

So I just purchased a V1 Sunlight...
New models arriving are coming with the underhood generator and 200 lithium Ecotrek. That is what sold it for me.

Do the units listed at $60k or less include the underhood generator and lithium battery pack? That's a very impressive price point if true...