Mies - an ARV 2500 144 WB 2WD Van

[Vanstertails]

David,

May I ask how the Neumeister tables are affixed to the pillars? Are they adjustable in any way? Sure looks easier than stowing the components of a Lagun, and setting it up. I'm looking for ARV solutions that don't require laborious sets up, yet can be got out of the way, and allow ergonomic use. The articulating table arms used in ARV's Cub are intriguing, but perhaps bulky. Have you seen them?

I'm also wondering, what is that nice storage case that hangs from the driver's headrest?

Thanks!

[Twinbridges]

Great history lesson on an unknown piece of architecture.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Vanstertails

"Macerator toilets require water to be available to use. That’s why the most of our cold weather mods to ensure it."

David, How is the macerating toilet's requirement for water and heating different from that of any other foot-pumped black tank toilet? Are you distinguishing its requirements because one could use antifreeze to flush the conventional toilet?

I'm thinking of using the same Tecma toilet in a 144" 3500 build. I like its smooth compact looks that seem easy to clean, and I imagine that it eliminates any possibility of odors coming back up from the black tank after a long interval between dumping. But I'm wondering if the macerating toilet necessarily consumes more water per flush than a conventional toilet, if it draws phantom power, and if it poses a risk of mechanical failure beyond expectations for a pedestrian black-tank toilet.

Thanks for your advice, and for sharing your brilliant design process and its results in Mies.

I haven’t read the details of the Tecma toilet. ARV cautioned me not to flush the toilet without water in it was why I mentioned this. It is a simple operation. I number 2 you push a button to fill water in the bowl much as you would in a Dometic toilet with the foot pedal and then press a flush button which follows with rinse water. Number 1 you just have to flush and there is no water in the bowl. It just needs more water and pink stuff probably would require a gallon. Once flushed There is a a long sewer pipe probably about 6 feet on our van and the macerator intervening from to black tank so you don’t get an odor like the direct hole over the blank tank. With a 40 gallon water tank which I think is the largest tank of any 144 and most Class Bs water isn’t a problem. The 25 gallon black tank which I can combine with the 26 gal. grey water tank if desired again is greater than most Class Bs with a Dometic 10-15 gallon is not a problem either.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Vanstertails

David,

May I ask how the Neumeister tables are affixed to the pillars? Are they adjustable in any way? Sure looks easier than stowing the components of a Lagun, and setting it up. I'm looking for ARV solutions that don't require laborious sets up, yet can be got out of the way, and allow ergonomic use. The articulating table arms used in ARV's Cub are intriguing, but perhaps bulky. Have you seen them?

I'm also wondering, what is that nice storage case that hangs from the driver's headrest?

Thanks!

The storage case is a man’s handbag. It actually carries accessories for my iPad, iPhone and computer such as AirPods, camera accessories, cables, etc.

I call them the Neumeister tables because ARV did not come up with them but one of their customers did. The two tables store on the tall cabinet and the end of the galley cabinet. The brackets store away in the shelf above the cab. We elected to have two separate tables because a single table on a Lagun bracket seemed overly klunky to me and one table requires musical chairs to sit in as you would have to slide over to the driver’s seat and then the person sitting in the passenger seat would have to get up in order for you to slide out. The tables are standard TV tray size for eating or using for a laptop computer. I have a 15” MacBook Pro. You can set one table independently from the other of course.

It’s all pretty compact once stored away. The bracket receiver is a custom iron square anchored onto the wood cabinetry tight to the B-pillars. The table bracket is simple as shown laying on the seat. The table slides on the bar and can adjust side to side but not back and forth. Your seat can be adjusted back and forth. I know the Lagun tables are all the rage and ARV puts them in mostly because they are versatile and one arm can be used in two places, up front with the cab seats and back with the couch seats (which we don’t have.) And of course they can swivel every which way. Interestingly, the first time I saw Lagun tables in a Class B was a suggestion by another ARV customer, the Howse’s back in 2014 and now they standard with many companies.

[Vanstertails]

Elegantly simple. I’m always impressed by the way ARV can fabricate just about anything.
As an added bonus, the bracket arms could be weaponized. At arm’s length in the cab shelf, they can be grabbed by you and your wife to bludgeon invaders as they storm the sliding door. Or for pounding out pork tenderloins in the adjacent galley. Multipurpose furnishings are key to successful class B design.

[Vanstertails]

I’ve wondered if the conventional Dometic toilet opens directly into the black tank like a pit toilet. How does that not get nasty?

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Vanstertails

I’ve wondered if the conventional Dometic toilet opens directly into the black tank like a pit toilet. How does that not get nasty?

Simply leave the Dometic toilet open, you'll have a pit toilet. No water needed!

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Bud

Simply leave the Dometic toilet open, you'll have a pit toilet. No water needed!

I hope you are joking. Leaving it closed with a little water seal is still an odor problem with a Dometic over the the black tank toilet. No water? Good luck with trying to empty it.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

Where are these two fill ports located? Do they penetrate the van body? Down underneath?

In answer to the city water hookup thread with photo information. The water fill is in a lockable nerf bar compartment. It is an a screw on attachment which in turn accepts another screw in attachment on the hose which you pull back slightly (that 1/8” gap) and then just shove it to couple. You can buy them at an RV store.

The gravity fill is on the cab door post which is concealed by closing the door. There is an outer flap closer and inside that flap there is another pull out plug.

I have no visible body wall penetrations other than lights and windows and roof penetrations. ARV receives their vans with the window cutouts already there by MB and then installs their windows. The outside electrical receptacle is also hidden in a nerf bar compartment just under our fold down table at the sliding door.

[avanti]

Thanks. The passenger door thing is very nice. Transits apparently have some kind of provision for an auxiliary fuel fill port just below the normal one, which might be useful in my build. I have never seen it, though.

Is your nerf bar assembly a custom ARV build or is it commercial?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

Thanks. The passenger door thing is very nice. Transits apparently have some kind of provision for an auxiliary fuel fill port just below the normal one, which might be useful in my build. I have never seen it, though.

Is your nerf bar assembly a custom ARV build or is it commercial?

The nerf bars are totally custom design by ARV. I don’t know if they are fabricated in house but I think they are capable. More and more ARV vans are opting for the nerf bar sides rather than the custom fiberglass sides.

This is an interesting video that just came out, not by ARV, but a New Jersey RV show, of a 144 ARV van just delivered. In fact we saw and visited the van being picked up by the owner last month. She touches on the nerf bars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oieZu9vFGU

[Vanstertails]

David, do ARV's nerf bars project away from the outer body surface, so that they are at risk for damage when parallel parking next to a curb? Or do they stick out no more than a running board would? How does the fiberglass side option compare?

[Davydd]

They stick out from the outer body. Interestingly, ARV justifies naming their Class C’s B-Boxes in saying the overall dimensions are no wider or taller than their Class B’s. Their B-Boxes have a retractable step. If you get a 4x4 there is no problem. We have a 2WD but have the MB factory lifts of 2” installed and makes the clearance under the nerf bars 8.5”. The clearance under the rest of the van with the lifts is 11”. A standard curb is 6”. Occasionally you may encounter some pavement settling where the curbs are higher. I can judge easily if that seems to be the case and park accordingly. I my past van, Alvar, I didn’t judge well and damaged my older design nerf bar and discovered later the clearance at the front end of the bar was only 5.5” with the front downward lean.

The steps in the ARV nerf bars are probably one of The best getting out of the cab doors and the sliding door with no need of retracting steps. That video featuring Julie with the blue van above in a previous post touches on that too.

I was never fond of their fiberglass skirt design. They are prone to cracking I’ve heard. They have improved both their fiberglass and steel nerf bars by getting away from reliance of magnets to prop open their access panels. Magnets attract any metallic road debris which is mostly magnetic dust not objects.

[Vanstertails]

David, Do you regret not getting the E&P levelers on Mies? I'm wondering if the feet are fixed perpendicular to the pistons, or if they articulate so that they remain flat against a sloping ground surface. It's hard to imagine using the levelers on an asphalt street or driveway if the are fixed. I'd think the potential for damage is huge. Are SnapPads useful for these to enlarge the footprint on sandy ground, or to mitigate damage to asphalt surfaces?

[Davydd]

With the short 144 WB I have yet to need the lego blocks for leveling. Also with our bunk beds with walls both sides even the slightest non-level is no problem as you can prop your butt against the wall in a slight curl position and not feel you are going to fall out of bed. I just realized some short sprinters have 69” deep beds. We have 74”. Even with my height of 5’-8” I would find 69” uncomfortable.

I suppose you could put pads under the levelers on asphalt. I have no experience with them.

[Vanstertails]

How is 74" bed length working out? Can you put a pillow under your head and point your toes?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Vanstertails

How is 74" bed length working out? Can you put a pillow under your head and point your toes?

At 5’-8” in bare feet, yes and I have a tall cabinet at the end of the bed and not and overhang. I am surprised there are commercial short Sprinter conversions that have 69” long beds. Even with the window flairs side to side sleeping is constricted at 69” and restrictive window flairs that get you about 72” and climb over partner situation.

I would not design our van like I did if I were 6 ft. or over tall. As it is in hindsight I would like another inch or two in a lot a dimensions but I am not moving up to a Class C (or euphemistically Class B+) that I would care to have now that I am enjoying my short Sprinter parking in just about any parking lot, and U turning everywhere. It is kind of like those short 3 basket tier supermarket carts I call sprint carts instead of the unwieldy long large basket carts you jockey around and bump into everyone.

[Vanstertails]

Do you miss having the articulating beds you invented for Alvar?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Vanstertails

Do you miss having the articulating beds you invented for Alvar?

Yes. I constantly adjusted mine and am thinking about a non-electrical alteration to raise the back for reading. My wife used hers less and had the habit of just sitting up in bed. Unfortunately head clearance height made that impossible so I put a skylight over the upper bunk with about 6” more clearance to sit up. Not a totally satisfactory solution. Kind of like wearing a big helmet.

[Vanstertails]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Unfortunately head clearance height made that impossible so I put a skylight over the upper bunk with about 6” more clearance to sit up. Not a totally satisfactory solution. Kind of like wearing a big helmet.

Sounds like the Cone of Silence!