Mies - an ARV 2500 144 WB 2WD Van

[Boxster1971]

Yes - with large galley in Bucky you can't get separate single beds. But if you reduce the galley and use the space next to sliding door you can get two separate single beds - for short people. This type of build would be another challenge for Advanced RV.

Only use my van for camping travel about 90 days a year. Otherwise it is my second vehicle for use year round. Seeking an open plan like Bucky with additional seating for occasional use for short distances.

My inspirations are the Embassy RV Traveler SL and Vantage ORA from UK.

https://www.embassyrv.com/models-tra...orplan#submenu

https://www.vantagemotorhomes.co.uk/...ra#prettyPhoto

Attaching images from Embassy RV and Vantage. Also a crude cut&paste floor plan I made for initial discussions. Plan to stop at Embassy RV in late July to see how they build a short van

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Yes - with large galley in Bucky you can't get separate single beds. But if you reduce the galley and use the space next to sliding door you can get two separate single beds - for short people. This type of build would be another challenge for Advanced RV.

Only use my van for camping travel about 90 days a year. Otherwise it is my second vehicle for use year round. Seeking an open plan like Bucky with additional seating for occasional use for short distances.

My inspirations are the Embassy RV Traveler SL and Vantage ORA from UK.

https://www.embassyrv.com/models-tra...orplan#submenu

https://www.vantagemotorhomes.co.uk/...ra#prettyPhoto

Attaching images from Embassy RV and Vantage. Also a crude cut&paste floor plan I made for initial discussions. Plan to stop at Embassy RV in late July to see how they build a short van

Those plans represent the things I wanted to overcome in a short van. The beds occupy and dominate 60% of the floor space when down, so you have either/or conversion of space without interior zoning of space when you or your partner can’t sleep for instance, and the bathroom is not the best location that kills the optimum use and function of two big back doors other than it may be the best place for a composting so you don’t have to carry the toilet bowl through the van or cassette toilet where you don’t have to penetrate an outside wall to remove the cassette.

ARV has built other short vans and the ones with hiked up queen beds with under bed storage all the way to the back are probably the best option if the controversial bunk beds are not for someone. Weight is a real issue too with some sacrifices if you want a 2500 van without dual wheels. ARV probably knows every trick to achieve that by now.

So far we have figured out a way to carry everything we carried in our 5 foot longer van and maybe more. The galley storage was the area of the most rethinking. However, we may abandon the idea of hanging storage in the coat closet and build in shelves. I did that once before in my Great West Van. We have only used hanging storage for coats and raincoats. Those are stuffable, foldable items and 3M Command hooks can take care of temporary situations like wet raincoats.

[Davydd]

Not to do James at FitRV but I have embarked on my own mods. Lots of 3M Command hooks and doodads and Velcro are a given. The only thing screwed on so far is a classic bottle opener in the sliding doorway you can use outside or inside the van. I had one in Alvar, so why not? It probably will be seldom used as we tend to buy can beer and drinks on the road. It is just a symbol mostly.

[Davydd]

The real first project i set on was solving how to get in the upper bunk. We didn’t want the traditional small rung ladder so ARV provided us with a collapsible step ladder which folded up and you could place on the bed when not in use.

I set upon another idea. The cube ladder that can store away under the refrigerator, have a storage bin mostly for shoes, be a side table between the cab seat especially when in the turned around position, could be a side table outdoors, a ladder for the back door shelving, etc.

[Davydd]

I little whimsy since I created and admin a 61,000 member Facebook group, Pursuing Pork Tenderloin Sandwiches. Why not? They are mostly found in four state, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri but in my Class B travels I’ve found them in 32 states and provinces. Gotta recognize one of my main side pursuits in traveling.

[rowiebowie]

Mmmmmmmmmmm, pork sandwiches.

[Davydd]

Yep. These…

[GeorgeRa]

My favor pork sandwich is based on ham hock / eisban. If you happen to be in Germany here it is - Catering Berlin | Angebot Sandwiches und mehr | Pannek seine Budike
I had one like this but with beer-soaked and roasted Bavarian style schweinshaxe, still remember its taste.

[Davydd]

George,

You could start a Facebook group for the Pork Knuckle Sandwich. You might get more members from the catchy name than true pursuers. I believe, though many members continue to profess being mystified by a platter sized sandwich, that is what attracted over 61,000 members for a sandwich primarily sold in restaurants in four Midwestern states (IN, IA, IL & MO) with little fringe spill out in surrounding states.

[gk&hc]

Thanks for posting the photos of your new RV. I’d love to be able to call ARV and say “I’ll take what David is getting”, but it’s probably out of my price range.
Thanks again.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gk&hc

Thanks for posting the photos of your new RV. I’d love to be able to call ARV and say “I’ll take what David is getting”, but it’s probably out of my price range.
Thanks again.

When you go to ARV you have to have an attitude of damn the cost I'm going to get what I want, good idea or not, and your bones will be a van with the best a 40 person builder can research and provide at the time. You also get the benefit of like customers ideas to emulate. For instance, the Lagun tables came from a customer who found them in Europe and now everyone is copying them. I settled for another customers totally unique tables I call the Neumeister tables that are simple L shaped metal tubes that slide onto a B-pillar and the table slides on the other leg. I contributed the idea of electric articulating beds in a Class B. ARV pulled it off and many other customers have had them built in many other configurations they desired.

Is Mies a good idea? I don't know. it's inspiration was initiated from the first B I looked at, the Airstream Westfalia of 2005 based on the James Cook design which I didn't buy for many circumstances at the time. Then I saw and traveled briefly alongside a young German couple on the Alaskan Highway in 2012. They shipped their CS Reisemobile Duo from Germany. Both are short Sprinters. Those two vans I have thought about for a long time. Those two vans evidently are niche vans and the Airstream Westfalia never took off.

This is the CS Reisemobile DUO plan.

[booster]

I don't think Mies is a bad idea, but the bunk beds wouldn't sell in this household, no question about that


Smaller class Bs used to the norm, led by the Roadtrek 170 adn 190 models on Dodges and Chevies. On Dodges I think even the 190 was about the same overall length as Mies and the 170 shorter. Our 07 190 Chevy is less than a foot longer than Mies if no spare on the back, so we are well aware of the benefits of shorter with maximized use of space even at the expense of the, IMO, "openness". There is a lot off good in a 19-20 footer with single rear wheels. We have been in ours 13 years and never wanted to go bigger.

[Davydd]

I hear you on the length. I’m enjoying that immensely for going anywhere with more freedom o choice and the much shorter attendant turning radius.

The bunk beds were the most controversial aspect of the design but in a short Sprinter they turned out to be 25% of the floor space behind the cab vs. 61% of the space occupied by a full width back bed. That was just too much for me to give up for other amenities like larger bathroom, full kitchen galley and storage. The exercise in design was get the same thing we were carrying in our 24 ft. Sprinter into a 19 ft. Sprinter and also not having things like microwaves and refrigerators under counter where you have to bend down. Also, I didn’t want multi-use convertible spaces where you had to make an either/or choice which usually meant that you either slept or stayed up.

The 360º open view meant less storage and no refuge inside the van and, of course, the either/or aspect. We are forced to live inside the van via the turned around cab seats and that is plenty open with all the cab windows and the windows both sides immediately behind the B pillar. Both seats turn a full 180º and I elected to put in two tables instead of a shared center table which blocks getting into and out of the driver’s seat needing to awkwardly slide over if the passenger seat is occupied. That probably is why the Europeans have a penchant to have the awkward two shoulder to shoulder upright rear passenger seats and shared table with the turned around driver’s seat set up. I’m definitely taking the two persons only approach and not entertaining or socializing inside our van with visitors. We never had anyway. Never had a vase with a flower or bowl of fruit on the table.

I definitely wanted an enclosed bathroom with privacy and space so as not to intrude into the van. Bathroom splatter and aerosols are greater than one thinks.

[MsNomer]

Davydd, I’m really glad you got what you wanted. I think of vans as grown-up Pinewood Derby: we each take the same box and make it our own.

I, OTOH, cringe just looking at the photos. No way would I want to crawl into that hole to sleep, and like booster, bunks just wouldn’t sell in this household. Even when we are forced into bunks in European mountain huts, we end up sharing one if at all possible. In our 136” PM, 20” shorter than your Sprinter, our permanent double bed is 1/3 the available living space.

[MobileCabin]

David,


Now that you have used your system for awhile I am interested in how happy you are with the 3K Xantrex since I am considering installing one in a new camper. Have you been able to measure the Ah draw to make a k-cup of coffee, run the InstaPot and use your induction burner? I am trying to keep the battery capacity down to a single 315Ah lithium because of space restrictions.


Thanks,
Pat

[Davydd]

I haven’t yet examined the inverter performance that way. I have 576ah of lithium ion Valence batteries but only have available 460ah as 20% are locked out or when the battery capacity goes down to 20% the system automatically shuts down and you have to reboot it with charging the batteries either driving or Autogen (second alternator via high idle which produces at about 275 amps per hour). I have Autogen to start at 30% and haven’t reached that point yet. Driving at highway speeds settles in at slightly more than 300 amps per hour so about 1-1/2 hours on the road I can recharge my batteries. Under normal use and brewing 4 Keurig cups per day, lighting, keeping 2 iPhones and 2 iPads charged and using all electrical systems the 460ah can get me about 2 to 3 nights without driving or using the second alternator. On our last trip we stayed a maximum of two nights in one place but in Yellowstone for instance we drove every day someplace. We haven’t bothered to use the microwave yet (makes a good bread basket) and the induction cooktop or Instant Pot are highly variable in what you are cooking but fairly efficient. We don’t need the inverter on except for cooking and making coffee or using the 115vac outlets. Everything else runs on 12v DC including the refrigerator, lighting, macerating toilet, and 8 charger plugs scattered about in the cabin. We have a built in WiFi Ranger system, a Winegard Rayzar automatic TV antenna, a Silverleaf touch screen (5”) control monitor, a push button Drone door locking system, and five 6-button multplex light controllers. The Xantrex we have is not standard with ARV. We chose it because it was lighter and ARV adapted it to their system. The Isotherm 115 compressor refrigerator appears super efficient compared to my previous Nova Kool 6800.

[MobileCabin]

Thank you David. I think I will be "ok" with the 315 Ah Lithionic for my particular use-case. But I may have to switch out the planned Dometic CRX-1110 refer if I get stuck in hot areas.

[booster]

davydd, you mention the 20% bottom space for SOC on your batteries. Is ARV still leaving 5-10% headspace also as I think they did in the past?

[Davydd]

They have always had 20% unused battery capacity with a hard shut down and to restore battery function you had to start the engine and hold down a button for about one minute and then they come back to life and you can continue to charge the batteries. At 275 amps per hour high idling with the Delco Remy 330a alternator I can fully recharge my batteries 100% in a little over 1-1/2 hours (460 amps) under the limit MB sets at 2 hours before needing to drive on the highway or just drive and charge faster. The 20% held in reserve also negates apparent loss of efficiency so your batteries perform as expected over a normal lifetime. I had Alvar for 5 years with no apparent loss. As you mentioned 5-10% head space and some think you can discharge Lithium batteries down to 0 with no damage.

ARV I think is rather conservative since most of their vans have over 12v 800ah battery capacity. Knowing my experience I reduced my capacity to four 144ah batteries = 576ah because of space considerations and weight to stay with a 2500 Sprinter. I needed to do every trick to save weight to achieve my design goals.

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by Davydd

At 275 amps per hour high idling with the Delco Remy 330a alternator I can fully recharge my batteries 100% in a little over 1-1/2 hours (460 amps)

The more I research this question, the more this seems to me like the best solution for RV power: no solar, no generator, just a high capacity lithium battery bank and a high output alternator. What kind of DC to DC charger does ARV use to put 275 amps (!) into the battery bank? Most of the commericially available chargers that I have seen do not go beyond 60A.

I say that this is the best solution, but it is not necessarily the most practical or cost effective! What I am wondering is how feasible is it to upgrade a vintage RV to this kind of setup. It is easy enough to remove the Onan generator and install a few LifePO4 batteries. But is it practicable to install enough alternator capacity, heavy duty wiring, and B2B charging capacity? Easier on an older RV is a 40a setup but that means much more driving and so less benefit over generator or solar charging.

So my two questions:

1, What is the highest capacity commercially available B2B charger?

2. What the upper limit in terms of charging amps, practicably and without inordinate expense, of an alternator based charging system on a vintage Dodge (or similar) RV?