Hymer Sonne

[JohnMFlores]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FCmX0D0b4o

[booster]

That is a floorplan that sure looks like a traditional Roadtrek from the past. Toilet facing the aisle, kitchen behind the driver, rear bed.

Personally, I like the bathroom the best of nearly all we have seen because it separates the shower from the toilet, so it the customer can chose it they want to use it for prime space storage or a shower. Toilets facing the aisle use much less valuable space which is nice in a short version like this.

Of course many will instantly disqualify any consideration of it because of the kitchen on the driver side, but to each their own.

[fwdanielson]

Originally Posted by booster

Of course many will instantly disqualify any consideration of it because of the kitchen on the driver side, but to each their own.

I never understood why people have such a strong preference for the kitchen on the passenger side. My old Versatile has the kitchen on the driver's side with sufficient counter and cabinet space to function. The passenger side kitchens have just enough room for the stove top and sink with no counter space unless you count the flip up shelf extending in to the doorway so nobody can get in and out of the camper around meal time.

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by fwdanielson

I never understood why people have such a strong preference for the kitchen on the passenger side. My old Versatile has the kitchen on the driver's side with sufficient counter and cabinet space to function. The passenger side kitchens have just enough room for the stove top and sink with no counter space unless you count the flip up shelf extending in to the doorway so nobody can get in and out of the camper around meal time.

Different styles appeal to different people but the biggest benefit I hear of the passenger side galley is that the view from the galley overlooks your campsite instead of your neighbor. However, on shorter vans you are correct that the counter is really short on the pass. side vs the driver side. Our Agile for instance has a nice long counter on the driver side.

[Davydd]

The Hymer Sonne can be acceptable for a single traveler but traveling with a companion and cross sleeping requiring crawl over and peeing in the aisle turns your whole B into a bathroom. That's not acceptable for longterm travel beyond a weekend with two people, IMO.

As for having a galley on the driver's or passenger's side there are simple reasons.

Tall cabinets directly behind the driver do not block driving views unless you think you can turn your head like an owl.

We mostly prep campground meals at the counter and cook outside in a campground. For two people having visual coordination is a plus besides also having your windows and views oriented to your campground space and not your neighbors.

Driver's side galleys have nominal 24" depths to accommodate under counter refrigerators. Passenger side galleys are usually less in depth of about 16" which is enough for a sink and stovetop.

Then tall spaces like baths and showers require that same depth or more on the passenger side. If they don't they are too shallow to be comfortable which is mostly typical of driver side galley designs which push your head too close to the wall curvature, off course peeing in the aisle situations, or if inclosed a bulging door configuration which further chokes down the aisle.

Consequently the passing aisles typically get pinched down so much that two people cannot pass by each other. No coordination or "after you" move bys with passenger side galley designs. In effect is is poor design of space in a B, IMO.

[mojoman]

My rig is has a similar layout with the exception of the shower. We found the benefits of having a rig you can park anywhere outweighs the small inconveniences of having less space. Although I'm not an owl, I am able to and do use the unubstructed view of the rear windows while driving and parking as I would with my minivan. While designing the layout I tried different mock ups and full visibility went to the top of the list after experiencing the blocked versions. It makes maneuvering the vehicle it tight places stressless and lane changes easier.

[wincrasher]

I can't believe they are bringing this awful layout to market. They first tried this as "Link" on the Roadtrek as a "concept" vehicle for 2 seasons. It was poorly recieved and the build quality suspect. Hopefully Hymer has improved on some of the details so it's not a total bust for the people that buy this thing.

Note that they are using an enormous head unit from a Class A. It's not a cassette either - so this is their only model with a black tank, so far.

[Keyne]

I personally dont like that layout at all versus other options the benefits seem small. For instance IMO you get much more use out of the Aktiv layout and have similar underbed storage options and a nice bathroom. I cant imagine buying this layout in comparison.

[booster]

For those of us that have aisle facing toilets, and used them for years, it is of no issue at all. Roadtrek sold a lot of vans with that layout over the years.

In a van that small, I can't think of any other one that would have an area like the shower stall that could be be used for storage if wanted, and even for easily moved stuff if you are a shower user (we hardly ever would use the shower). That shower probably has more space in it than all the storage combined in similar vans that size, and would allow the people who want a shorter, more maneuverable setup to still have enough room for their stuff for more than a weekend.

Class b's were under 20 feet long form many years, and only slightly over when the Chevies came out in the later years, except for the highly altered 210, but now 22-24 feet if getting to be the norm. The smaller Promasters are going to push the market back, I think, to less wide open, more storage, designs for a segment of the market. It would be interesting to see how much time folks actually spend in their vans, compared to what they thought they would, and what the do while sitting inside. We just aren't inside all that much, and usually just are sitting in the rear, watching a DVD or reading the hometime newspaper on the computer, or sleeping. During the day, we are out and around or outside at the campsite. The amount of meal prep inside is minutes for us, and often zero because it is just nicer and easier to do it outside, regardless of where the kitchen is.

Bottom line for us is that there is no way we would trade storage space for "openness" or even consider the need to go longer to get both. It makes no sense to us, but others like their big bathrooms and no cabinet interiors, so to each their own.

I drive similar to Mojo, and we can easily see out the rear window on our 190P Chevy, so I do see traffic in the rear coming and what is there. I don't turn and look out the side windows when I am driving my huge "fishbowl' old Roadmaster wagon, that has widows 360 degrees around it, so I don't turn around to look in the van either. IMO, the side mirrors cover everything you could see by turning around, and you still have the front view in you vision, so you are able to keep track of what is on each side of you continuously.

Best quote I have ever heard about defensive driving in relation to this issue came for an ex highway patrol officer that was at a 55 alive class.

His statement was very clear and enlightening--

"Do you ever turn around to look when changing lane and see something there you didn't know about? If so, you shouldn't, because you should always know what is all around you when driving."

To me that means good side mirrors, properly set, and if you can't see out the rear window, which is getting more common on the new high rear end vehicles, have a rearview camera on. And always be scanning all your mirrors so you know all the time what is around. If you are aware of what is around and behind you, there is a much greater chance you can avoid something that happens right in front of you, as you will know where it is clear to go without having to look first.

[mojoman]

I replaced my rearview mirror with a 7" screen, two rear cameras, one pointed down with a wide view for backing up, the other one, a narrower view pointed higher to serve as the rear view while driving. It's so nice having great view of the rear while driving I'm surprised its not offered on the RV's, the second camera only cost $25 and most screens will accept two inputs.

[MsNomer]

What bothers one person may be irrelevant to another. We can manage quite well for months at a time in our cross-wise bed.

[ManWonder]

Originally Posted by mojoman

I replaced my rearview mirror with a 7" screen, two rear cameras, one pointed down with a wide view for backing up, the other one, a narrower view pointed higher to serve as the rear view while driving. It's so nice having great view of the rear while driving I'm surprised its not offered on the RV's, the second camera only cost $25 and most screens will accept two inputs.

i like this idea... picture please?

[vroom]

Wish they had put the toilet inside the shower and made more room for storage.

[booster]

Originally Posted by vroom

Wish they had put the toilet inside the shower and made more room for storage.

I guess I don't understand this. The entire shower can be used for storage, and as a shower if the stored stuff is easily moved temporarily. If the toilet was in there, you would have storage that you gain, but no shower, unless you did the old Roadtrek method of putting the shower itself in the aisle.

[talktodean]

Seems the direction Hymer is going, maybe a lot different than most might have expected? Ugly cheap sh _ _, outside and in.

[nebulight]

Wow, yea, this is exactly like the roadtrek link I saw at Hershey. A lot of wasted space. Since hymer is a euro company, why not go with a euro style van, like the LaStrada Avanti M. Same wheel base but a much better layout. Sure it's cramped, but it's a 136 (same as the Sonne) but with more storage and a better use of space by not having that weird toilet by itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQXGs3KsFM0

[techfan]

[QUOTE=nebulight;54810]Wow, yea, this is exactly like the roadtrek link I saw at Hershey. A lot of wasted space. Since hymer is a euro company, why not go with a euro style van, like the LaStrada Avanti M. Same wheel base but a much better layout.

Not to start a fight... but it looks like Hymer is being more influenced by Roadtrek than the other way around.

Pictures of a new Aktiv delivered to Redmond, Oregon showed trim pieces having fallen off from the windows after the trip from the factory. If they fell off being delivered, I wouldn't have much hope of them staying on in regular use.

[booster]

Originally Posted by nebulight

Wow, yea, this is exactly like the roadtrek link I saw at Hershey. A lot of wasted space. Since hymer is a euro company, why not go with a euro style van, like the LaStrada Avanti M. Same wheel base but a much better layout. Sure it's cramped, but it's a 136 (same as the Sonne) but with more storage and a better use of space by not having that weird toilet by itself.

I still don't understand this. How can you get more storage than you have with the standalone shower that can be 100% storage (permanent or temporary) if you want, and a toilet facing the aisle that uses no space where your feet are, and can have a shelf right above, your, sitting head. As soon as you turn the toilet and put it in the shower, you pretty much lose the entire toilet and shower area from being even temporary storage, as you have to get you feet in their.

We actually have an aisle facing toilet in our 07 C190P Roadtrek, and the toilet uses just about the volume of one seated person without legs . There is truly no way to use less space for a toilet than this, unless it is a porta-potti you pull out and use in the aisle, that I can think of.

[mojoman]

There's pics in my album somewhere:
Mojovan Story by mcgiotes | Photobucket

[Scottbaldassari]

This plan didn't make much sense to us either until a salesperson said it was designed for single women... Large countertop makes for big kitchen, short bed doesn't matter, whole thing turns into a big bathroom when you want it to...
Makes more sense when you think about it like that...
... I guess...
... If you're a single woman...