Could this be the end of Roadtrek???

[booster]

It is possible that Hymer was pouring cash into the NA group at an unsustainable rate, so when it got to be time to kill or sell it off fast was better. The scandal also would certainly allow an accelerated speed of actions besides. They may not even know at this point just how much money they have lost.

[wincrasher]

Mark my words - they poured a ton of debt into EGHNA so they could get rid of it and boost the price on the rest of the company. I'll be curious to find out if they really sold the inventory, or it's frozen for other reasons. Who would buy them and finish them and sell them as Roadtrek/Hymer? Very odd.

[ClassB4Me]

Only One Question Remains... Will There Be a Perp Walk?


1) It could take more than a year to fully sort out who was involved in any criminal act at EHG NA (too much time)
2) Thor will not want this headache - $$$ and it is a dark cloud on what they want to be a celebration from April forward
3) Erwin Hymer products will be made elsewhere in NA and worldwide. They don't want potentially disgruntled workers putting out bad product (more bad?) with Hymer, Carado branding on it post acquisition
4) When arrests start and trials begin, marketing will want to separate the bad press from Thor. Thor will blame everything on those 'bad EHG NA managers' and their 'greed' which tainted the acquisition of EHG NA.

Hmmm By Thor not buying Hymer NA, does that mean they can leave the Roadtrek warranty liabilities with the legacy Hymer NA company?

There is little upside to keeping EHG NA open for business from Thor's perspective. They will stake the high ground and offer generous severance packages for those who remain (reason for getting rid of 1st wave so quickly)

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Only One Question Remains... Will There Be a Perp Walk?


1) It could take more than a year to fully sort out who was involved in any criminal act at EHG NA (too much time)
2) Thor will not want this headache - $$$ and it is a dark cloud on what they want to be a celebration from April forward
3) Erwin Hymer products will be made elsewhere in NA and worldwide. They don't want potentially disgruntled workers putting out bad product (more bad?) with Hymer, Carado branding on it post acquisition
4) When arrests start and trials begin, marketing will want to separate the bad press from Thor. Thor will blame everything on those 'bad EHG NA managers' and their 'greed' which tainted the acquisition of EHG NA.

Hmmm By Thor not buying Hymer NA, does that mean they can leave the Roadtrek warranty liabilities with the legacy Hymer NA company?

There is little upside to keeping EHG NA open for business from Thor's perspective. They will stake the high ground and offer generous severance packages for those who remain (reason for getting rid of 1st wave so quickly)

Thor will be completely detached from this mess. They aren't going to be selling Roadtrek or even Hymer products in the US, so they don't have any concerns about bad PR for this. If, down the road, they decide to build Hymers in the US, that won't be an issue if a few years has passed.

Whether EHGNA pays out "generous" severance packages I'm sure depends on the state of finances. My guess is that since there is no buyer, and a heavily indebted company ripe for collapse as a vehicle to shed debt off Hymer, I expect there will be nil for the remaining employees. I wouldn't be shocked by a bankruptcy filing and a mass layoff this week, with no severance at all.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Thor will be completely detached from this mess. They aren't going to be selling Roadtrek or even Hymer products in the US,

I did not read they were not going to carry forward sales of the Hymer and Carrado brands in the United States. Surprised.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

I did not read they were not going to carry forward sales of the Hymer and Carrado brands in the United States. Surprised.

He is speculating... they may very well want to avoid the negative PR. But there is still demand for these conversions. They are the ONLY major manufacturers of a gas RV under 20ft.

[wincrasher]

I would think that selling those products in the US is part of the rights owned by EHGNA. That is something they would have to purchase in order to do. If that isn't exclusive to EHGNA, then what do they really have? That's where the value is, not in a couple of fabrication facilities.

Thor will have no rights to make Roadtreks. Whether the Ecotrek IP has been transferred to Hymer is an unanswered question, but if it remains in Roadtrek, then it probably dies with them. Not really a big deal now that there are pre-packaged vendor offerings out there (Xantrax, Volta, etc).

If EHGNA goes out of business, then I think it's murky whether Thor could build a new facility and produce Hymers in the US. I really doubt they want to do so, considering all the brands they already own. Small $30k+ travel trailers in the US as it heads into recession this year is not an appealing idea if you ask me.

My guess is they desire the overseas business - especially Europe, so they have a profitable footprint in that big market without re-inventing the wheel.

[gregmchugh]

The only thing that is clear is that some of the people here with strong opinions on what will happen in the future with Roadtrek (live another day or die) will be eating a big helping of crow...

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by mumkin

He is speculating... they may very well want to avoid the negative PR. But there is still demand for these conversions. They are the ONLY major manufacturers of a gas RV under 20ft.

Yes of course I am. But that is a small market segment. You could very well see the others add such a product to their lineups if Roadtrek was out of the picture.

PW already offers a 19' Sprinter, as does WGO. None do a short Promaster. With the short gas Sprinter coming soon, we might start seeing that in the major's lineups.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

The only thing that is clear is that some of the people here with strong opinions on what will happen in the future with Roadtrek (live another day or die) will be eating a big helping of crow...

Hey, I'd be as happy as anybody to see them emerge under a new stronger management. That would mean that their shady business practices and cheating and experimenting on their customers would end.

But I doubt it. The headwinds are strong.

I just don't see a viable business plan without requiring a mountain of cash. When you only value EGHNA at 170M euro, and there is a $100M fraud, and god only knows how much debt, I don't think anyone would step up to fix that. Thor certainly didn't want to, and they have VERY deep pockets.

[booster]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Hey, I'd be as happy as anybody to see them emerge under a new stronger management. That would mean that their shady business practices and cheating and experimenting on their customers would end.

But I doubt it. The headwinds are strong.

I just don't see a viable business plan without requiring a mountain of cash. When you only value EGHNA at 170M euro, and there is a $100M fraud, and god only knows how much debt, I don't think anyone would step up to fix that. Thor certainly didn't want to, and they have VERY deep pockets.

If the financials are really as bad as you list, I think the only way they come out is if someone buys the Roadtrek name and designs out of the bankruptcy, and maybe some inventory of parts, and starts an all new business.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by booster

If the financials are really as bad as you list, I think the only way they come out is if someone buys the Roadtrek name and designs out of the bankruptcy, and maybe some inventory of parts, and starts an all new business.

Curious minds can wonder...

How much is the Roadtrek name worth in Q1 2019?

What RV moat (design, technology) does Roadtrek possess that cannot be replicated by others in the RV industry?

How many die-hard Roadtrek 'fans' are out there who will go without their next Class b if it is not a Roadtrek?

It appears a journalist dropped his Roadtrek like a hot potato when it was no longer FREE. He made no effort to purchase it after spending monies customizing it.

"We Love Our Roadtrek and You Should Too" - Until We Don't

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

What RV moat (design, technology) does Roadtrek possess that cannot be replicated by others in the RV industry?

Is it still a [lithium] "moat" if the sewage infested moat is leaking into the castle and you have to flip a bunch of switches to operate the drawbridge?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Curious minds can wonder...

How much is the Roadtrek name worth in Q1 2019?

What RV moat (design, technology) does Roadtrek possess that cannot be replicated by others in the RV industry?

How many die-hard Roadtrek 'fans' are out there who will go without their next Class b if it is not a Roadtrek?

It appears a journalist dropped his Roadtrek like a hot potato when it was no longer FREE. He made no effort to purchase it after spending monies customizing it.

"We Love Our Roadtrek and You Should Too" - Until We Don't

He couldn’t purchase it because it was built on a Candian Sprinter Chassis, at least that is his explanation when asked why he didn’t buy it.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by B Eventually

Is it still a [lithium] "moat" if the sewage infested moat is leaking into the castle and you have to flip a bunch of switches to operate the drawbridge?

One should never underestimate the creative talent in this forum

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Curious minds can wonder...

How much is the Roadtrek name worth in Q1 2019?

What RV moat (design, technology) does Roadtrek possess that cannot be replicated by others in the RV industry?

How many die-hard Roadtrek 'fans' are out there who will go without their next Class b if it is not a Roadtrek?

It appears a journalist dropped his Roadtrek like a hot potato when it was no longer FREE. He made no effort to purchase it after spending monies customizing it.

"We Love Our Roadtrek and You Should Too" - Until We Don't

"Journalist" is a pretty strong accusation regarding Mike. Actual journalists might be offended.

[Knit]

Press release from today http://www.rvnews.com/article.php?id=9098

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by Knit

Press release from today http://www.rvnews.com/article.php?id=9098

"The company also said it expects there will be a reduction of $206.8 million in obligations of EHG that Thor would have otherwise assumed under the terms of the original stock purchase agreement."

$200+ million in debt and obligations is an awful lot to pay for the Roadtrek name and a product that a handful of skilled/diligent craftsman could build pretty much anywhere.

[booster]

So is that release saying that EHG assumes anything that is a "contract" but nothing else, so NA is basically getting all the assets and debt other than the contract stuff, whatever that may be? That would put NA as a standalone, sink or swim, find your own financing?

[Knit]

It means that the current owners continue to own EHGNA including both the assets and liabilities. Thor did not buy any of EHGNA. Roadtrek is but one brand made by EHGNA. At least at one point, Thor was apparently willing to pay about $195m and assume $206m in debt.