Could this be the end of Roadtrek???

[wincrasher]

Not surprising LaMesa would say that. They stand behind their customers until it might cost them a buck, then you are on your own.

Jim's comments confirm what I've been saying. He's out, done. For good. And he has legal jeopardy. Usually he doesn't show much restraint and wisdom in his comments, but I guess his lawyers have scared some sense into him.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Glamper

I just saw a post (hone of the FB groups) that said...

"I recently had a dealer (probably the biggest dealer in San Diego) call me and cancelled my appointment and said they were no longer doing roadtrek warranty service."

That has been true since the minute the news hit. I already had a minor warranty work appointment at La Mesa the day after it hit the media. When I called to confirm, the service person told me that from the previous day, they would only do warranty work for those who bought at La Mesa. Others would have to pay and hope to be reimbursed by EHGNA when and if. He was very nice about it and he did replace my 2 lights and cabinet lock in the parking lot without my paying anything.

You can't really blame dealers for being cautious. They all got burned by the bankruptcies during the crash.

This doesn't prove anything. They are just as in the dark as we are and as the employees up in the factory are. The warranty and service department has been working every day at the factory. (except for the day it all closed due to the weather - which caused a bit of panic on FB until the warranty person came on and told us the situation and fielded questions as he has been doing most days)

The inventory part of the audit has pushed the possible end of this part of the problems to the end of this week. As we all wait patiently... or not so patiently.

[Glamper]

I am not blaming the dealers, but on the other hand if an unsuspecting buyer shows up to look at RT-Hymer and the dealer does not disclose the current situation that is unethical. The dealers know at least as much as we do and we know for sure that a major acquisition of EHG took a sharp left turn at the 11th hour because of suspected fraud of 100M, that is significant IMHO. The few sales people I have contacted since this hit the fan have not been upfront, they skirt the issue and act surprised when I state the known facts thus far.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Glamper

I am not blaming the dealers, but on the other hand if an unsuspecting buyer shows up to look at RT-Hymer and the dealer does not disclose the current situation that is unethical. The dealers know at least as much as we do and we know for sure that a major acquisition of EHG took a sharp left turn at the 11th hour because of suspected fraud of 100M, that is significant IMHO. The few sales people I have contacted since this hit the fan have not been upfront, they skirt the issue and act surprised when I state the known facts thus far.

Legally, the dealer does not have to disclose anything. It is all out in the public domain about the Erwin Hymer Group NA.

Potential fraud is currently a rumor today - even if we find out tomorrow it actually occurred.

If the dealer received a fax from EHG NA today stating the company will move into receivership Friday and made a sale without disclosing, that is a material fact which could void any contract.

[booster]

Right now, as the only thing known for certain is that Thor bailed on the NA part of Hymer, so the dealers really don't need to disclaim. I would think they should be required to not lie about it by saying nothing is happening at all if a customer were to ask.


We all know RV dealers probably aren't the most ethical a lot of the time, but in this case they are really stuck in the middle.

[markhughes]

For what it's worth, I spoke to a Roadtrek rep today at the Seattle RV show. He is out of Vancouver and seemed to have a ready answer when I asked about the status of the company. He said the family is taking over operations and will clean it up (financially) with the goal to get it ready for sale. Manufacturing stopped for 3 days but is back up and running. He assured me the owners would be financially capable of pulling this all off, especially considering that they just pocketed the proceeds from the sales of the European operations. All warranties are will be honored according to this individual. I suppose this is what the employees have been told but I can't otherwise vouch for the accuracy of his statements.

[mumkin]

That is pretty much our best case scenario... I hope they managed to finish the audit/inventory today as they projected. (after not meeting the last Friday projected end)

[Durp]

Does anyone know what is happening on the Cambridge and Kitchener assembly lines?

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Durp

Does anyone know what is happening on the Cambridge and Kitchener assembly lines?

Only rumors... nothing confirmed.

[booster]

f the information is correct about the family having it back and looking at financially putting NA back on solid footing, it will likely be the accountants that decided what what they actually do, I think.


If there really is a bunch of missing money and cooked books, they will have to balance he costs of putting money in to make the business viable to a buyer vs selling as a distressed company vs walking away. I would think this would be an easier and quicker decision to make (they may already have done it) than with a company that is in trouble because of low sales and too much debt. Just replacing what went missing puts the balance sheet back where is should have been in the first place, without a lot of refinancing or having to increase revenue. Damage to reputation might be the biggest unkown for the family and/or a buyer to price accurately. The original stories talked about the NA unit to be valued at several times the $100 million they mentioned as in question, so putting even that amount in could be a worthwhile investment, as I am sure it would sell for more of discount than that as is.


Of course, with them being privately held, we will probably never know the actual costs involved either way.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by booster

f the information is correct about the family having it back and looking at financially putting NA back on solid footing, it will likely be the accountants that decided what what they actually do, I think.

Now that the Hymer family has sold pretty much everything to Thor and the Erwin Hymer talent now reports to Thor, the situation they face is amazing.

-- Family in Germany owns an asset in Canada

-- Family believes they were the victim of a potential $100 mill internal embezzlement

-- The Erwin Hymer (parent company and talent) now report to Thor

Who on the ground in Canada do they trust?

I would inventory, seek prosecution, and find a holding company willing to buy. I would write off the losses and enjoy the proceeds from the Thor sale

Life is short...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Now that the Hymer family has sold pretty much everything to Thor and the Erwin Hymer talent now reports to Thor, the situation they face is amazing.

-- Family in Germany owns an asset in Canada

-- Family believes they were the victim of a potential $100 mill internal embezzlement

-- The Erwin Hymer (parent company and talent) now report to Thor

Who on the ground in Canada do they trust?

I would inventory, seek prosecution, and find a holding company willing to buy. I would write off the losses and enjoy the proceeds from the Thor sale

Life is short...

On the other hand the Hymer family has a history of acting towards doing good things for their employees, their customers, their suppliers , and the communities where they have factories. Company values still mean something to many family companies.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

On the other hand the Hymer family has a history of acting towards doing good things for their employees, their customers, their suppliers , and the communities where they have factories. Company values still mean something to many family companies.

On the other hand....

No more hands...

The Hymer family is still left to determine who can they trust to lead the company forward? Is the 'cancer' limited to the management (suspended) or were there others on the factory floor complicit in the potential embezzlement scheme?

$100 million doillars!!! What would you do O' Wise One?

[Glamper]

I would think they would not just walk away leaving owners high and dry, wouldn't that result in legal action from RT/Hymer owners, which would probably cost more in legal fees than just infusing cash into company to keep it going until it can be sold. Just a guess.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Glamper

I would think they would not just walk away leaving owners high and dry, wouldn't that result in legal action from RT/Hymer owners, which would probably cost more in legal fees than just infusing cash into company to keep it going until it can be sold. Just a guess.

If a company is out of money, and if nobody wants to invest more, that is called a "bankruptcy". If there is a bankruptcy, warranty holders are just another class of creditor standing in line for their share of the scraps.

You will not succeed in suing innocent owners to force them to invest more money in a failed company. That is what the corporate shield exists to prevent.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Glamper

I would think they would not just walk away leaving owners high and dry, wouldn't that result in legal action from RT/Hymer owners, which would probably cost more in legal fees than just infusing cash into company to keep it going until it can be sold. Just a guess.

Like the tag line....

We are all guessing

Since the EHG assets have been moved to Thor at this point, if the auditors reported an actual loss of $100 million via embezzlement, I would suspect the estimated warranty liabilities could undermine the stability of the company.

When reading the financial disclosures of the sale to Thor, there was no mention of what monies who be set aside for EHG NA as part of the sale/transfer to 'the family?).

[michaelingp]

How big a liability is warranty work? My experience is when you figure all van manufacturer's warranty and the warranty on all the components, i.e. the fridge, the A/C, etc., there's not a whole lot for the conversion company to warranty. Plus, distance and time make it difficult for owners to have dealers do warranty repairs so I image a lot of owners do it themselves or pay a local shop. Of course the whole Etrek situation (which I know nothing about) might change the equation.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

How big a liability is warranty work? My experience is when you figure all van manufacturer's warranty and the warranty on all the components, i.e. the fridge, the A/C, etc., there's not a whole lot for the conversion company to warranty. Plus, distance and time make it difficult for owners to have dealers do warranty repairs so I image a lot of owners do it themselves or pay a local shop. Of course the whole Etrek situation (which I know nothing about) might change the equation.

But the 6 year RT warranty covers everything except the chassis and AGM batteries. RT covers all those purchased components you mentioned for 6 years...

[booster]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

How big a liability is warranty work? My experience is when you figure all van manufacturer's warranty and the warranty on all the components, i.e. the fridge, the A/C, etc., there's not a whole lot for the conversion company to warranty. Plus, distance and time make it difficult for owners to have dealers do warranty repairs so I image a lot of owners do it themselves or pay a local shop. Of course the whole Etrek situation (which I know nothing about) might change the equation.

Yes, it is the electrical systems that would bite them in warranty, especially when they are warranted for 6 years. The batteries modules, voltstart, and engine generator (even though it has a Nations alternator and Balmar regulator) could have a big future warranty expense put on them, as they all have been shown to be having quite a few problems, based on user comments. Even things like frigs, which would normally only have a 1 year warranty can be a problem by 6 years. Same with solar controllers, inverter/chargers, Onan generators, etc.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

On the other hand....

No more hands...

The Hymer family is still left to determine who can they trust to lead the company forward? Is the 'cancer' limited to the management (suspended) or were there others on the factory floor complicit in the potential embezzlement scheme?

$100 million doillars!!! What would you do O' Wise One?

What would I do?

I would honor my families commitment to a set of values no matter the consequences but I guess we will just have to wait and see what they decide to do...